Düsseldorf axe attack

[dismal]

And....this....causes....officials....to....say.....someone....is....from....country.....that....hasn't...existed....for....25....years....how?

Isn't where the guy is from "a fact"?

In researching 1900 US Census lists many logging towns in Northern Minnesota had over 30% immigrants coming from "Austria". This country still exists. Why did the 1920 census list these people from different countries? Hmmm????

See, this is the whole air of desperation thing I don't get.

What is so important about this point you are willing to make such absurd arguments?

 

[Keith&Co.]

Why do you insist that an attack on 'jumping to conclusions' is 'defending this sort of thing?'
Or is the difference too subtle for your brain?

- - - Updated - - -

That's not the song you were singing...

I'll ask again. What would you be looking at that would give you a high degree of certainty that the guy was from "former yugoslavia" but have no idea what country that has existed for the last 25 years he was from.

I don't need certainty for any OTHER answer to point out that Derec was jumping to conclusions. Even if he was right, he still didn't have the information at the time he was crowing about his conclusions.
And I'm still waiting for you to support your charge that it's 'defending' the practice.

 

[Keith&Co.]

See, this is the whole air of desperation thing I don't get.

You probably don't 'get' it because it's not really there. You're projecting a lot onto everyone else.

People are not doing what you say they're doing, so it would be difficult for even your brain to find support for it.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

In researching 1900 US Census lists many logging towns in Northern Minnesota had over 30% immigrants coming from "Austria". This country still exists. Why did the 1920 census list these people from different countries? Hmmm????

See, this is the whole air of desperation thing I don't get.

What is so important about this point you are willing to make such absurd arguments?

What exactly do you think I am arguing?

 

[dismal]

I'll ask again. What would you be looking at that would give you a high degree of certainty that the guy was from "former yugoslavia" but have no idea what country that has existed for the last 25 years he was from.

I don't need certainty for any OTHER answer to point out that Derec was jumping to conclusions. Even if he was right, he still didn't have the information at the time he was crowing about his conclusions.
And I'm still waiting for you to support your charge that it's 'defending' the practice.

OK, let's imagine the world of possibilities that would explain the facts.

Fact 1: The police originally reported he was a 36 year old from the "former Yugoslavia"
Fact 2: The police have since reported he was "Fatmir H" from muslim-majority Kosovo.

So, given these facts we are left to answer the question: Why did the police originally say he was from a country that has not existed for 25 years?

Possibility 1: They were in possession of information all along he was from muslim-majority Kosovo but by choice/or by accident obscured this information by saying he was from a country that has not existed for 25 years.
Possibility 2: They were in possession of information that he was from "former Yugoslavia" which did not clearly indicate what current day country he was from and shortly thereafter came into new information that he was from Kosovo.

In order for Possibility 2 to be remotely plausible one would have to be able to imagine what this document or source would positively identify him as being from "former Yugoslavia" but not where in "former Yugoslavia" might be.

I can't imagine such a document.

I have asked multiple times here and no one else can seem to imagine what such a document might be either. So, again I ask, why is there so much desperation to argue Possibility 2 when it is so implausible?

 

[ronburgundy]

Good thing Germany has among the strictest gun laws, or the headline would be "Dozens dead" instead of "Seven injured".

Despite having the 4th highest gun ownership, Germany greatly restricts who can get a gun, how many they can buy, who they can buy it from, who they can resell it to, requires every gun be registered, and allows officials to enter homes at any random time to verify possession and proper storage. IOW, all the things the US does not do and that would prevent the massive resale market by "law abiding gun owners" who are the source of most guns used in crimes. In the US, this guy could get his hands on a gun as easily and cheaply as an axe.

IF the racists actually cared about victims of violence, they would see this story more and its comparison to the far more lethal mass killing attempts in the US as an indictment of lax US gun laws than of Germany's lax immigration policies.

 

[funinspace]

Another possibility in this silly thread about a loon on another continent (for most of us) that didn't even kill anyone, while the US average number of murders tallies to roughly 40 each day, is that the guy could have immigrated with his parents either before or as Yugoslavia dissolved. But I'm sure endless electrons will sacrifice themselves for this worthy endeavor of vacuous speculation...

 

[Keith&Co.]

OK, let's imagine the world of possibilities that would explain the facts.

Dinnae fret y'self.

You guys don't like 'there's violence, let's blame trump before the facts are made available' but you're okay with 'there's violence let's blame immigrants/Islam' or any other of your preferred pushbuttons 'before the facts are available.'

And then get snotty when called on the practice.

Just like creationists 'we don't know therefore god is the explanation' or IDers with 'we don't know so let's pretend there's a scientific principle of magic involved.'
Fleh.

 

[dismal]

OK, let's imagine the world of possibilities that would explain the facts.

Dinnae fret y'self.

You guys don't like 'there's violence, let's blame trump before the facts are made available' but you're okay with 'there's violence let's blame immigrants/Islam' or any other of your preferred pushbuttons 'before the facts are available.'

And then get snotty when called on the practice.

Just like creationists 'we don't know therefore god is the explanation' or IDers with 'we don't know so let's pretend there's a scientific principle of magic involved.'
Fleh.

You are the one engaging in fact free speculation.

What evidence do you have that when the police released the fact he was from the "former Yugoslavia" the police didn't know he was from the "current Kosovo"?

None.

I keep asking you what evidence there could possibly be.

You have offered nothing.

There are reports he was an asylum seeker from Kosovo in 2009.

It's stunningly difficult to imagine that they wouldn't know from official documents that an asylum seeker from Kosovo was from Kosovo.

Yet you persist in your silly fact-free implausible argument.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...724d48f5666_story.html?utm_term=.dd8a5f2b217b

 

[Malintent]

Good thing Germany has among the strictest gun laws, or the headline would be "Dozens dead" instead of "Seven injured".

Despite having the 4th highest gun ownership, Germany greatly restricts who can get a gun, how many they can buy, who they can buy it from, who they can resell it to, requires every gun be registered, and allows officials to enter homes at any random time to verify possession and proper storage. IOW, all the things the US does not do and that would prevent the massive resale market by "law abiding gun owners" who are the source of most guns used in crimes. In the US, this guy could get his hands on a gun as easily and cheaply as an axe.

IF the racists actually cared about victims of violence, they would see this story more and its comparison to the far more lethal mass killing attempts in the US as an indictment of lax US gun laws than of Germany's lax immigration policies.

No, it just means that in Germany, there must be process for licensing, and a 5 day waiting period, before allowing the sale of axes.

Obviously, if this insane person had a gun, then NO ONE would have been killed except the crazy ax wielding maniac himself. he would have shot himself in the face by accident long before whatever motivated him to harm others occurred. Obviously. Even if he managed to attempt to harm others with a gun, if Germany had loose gun laws and everyone had a gun, then the headline would have been, "Man shot after trying to shoot 7 others. No casualties".

My argument is equally supported as yours.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

However, even though the D-dorf attacker is most likely Muslim, the authorities are deliberately vague about his identity. They did disclose his age, but as to where he is from, they only said he was from "former Yugoslavia". Why make a reference to a country that has not existed for a quarter century?

It depends on the situation. I describe my travels as including "Yugoslavia" because my memories are vague enough that I don't know what country(ies) I visited on a modern map.

 

[Elixir]

\the D-dorf attacker is most likely Muslim

Did you know that probably also means probably not?

Probably also means probably not.

 

[SimpleDon]

I just read a half dozen reports on the attack in German and in English. In none of them did I find a reference to the victims' origin city or to their city of occupation or to their religion. The closest the reports came was that two of the victims were Italian tourists.

There is also a report of a double homicide in the town of Herne in the Ruhr region to which Marcel H. has confessed to committing, a boy of nine stabbed 50 times and a 22 year old man stabbed 68 times. Nowhere in the reports is H.'s or the victims' religion or place of origin listed. Does this mean that the police are hiding this information? That there is a conspiracy in the government to hide this information? The police must know this information, the government in Germany requires its residents to declare their religious beliefs, there is a religious tax surcharge added to the income tax to support the churches. Why aren't they releasing this information? Why isn't derec and dismal interested in this crime and the religion of the murder?

Why do we have this obsession with the attacker's religion and city of origin? He is mentally ill. He was diagnosed years ago. He was off of his meds. It is very possible that the police don't think that this information is relevant or is something that is left best to the individuals concerned.

Why do we have this obsession with Germany's problems with immigration? Their biggest problem with immigration right now is that they are having problems deporting failed asylum seekers. They have a half million to deport and a combination of problems doing it. The countries of origin in some cases won't accept them. And in Germany it is the states that must deport them but it is the federal government that must support them. It is not always in the states' economic interest to deport the people. Some of the states have governments controlled by left leaning parties who are hyper vigilant about the immigrants' rights, to put it in the best light, or who want Merkel's immigration policies to fail, looking at it in the worst light. Do we want to talk about this? I don't.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Did you know that probably also means probably not?

Probably also means probably not.

I'm glad that you agree with me. I guess you like that one.

 

[credoconsolans]

IOW

"man with a history of severe mental illness in a strict gun controlled country grabs an ax and goes berserk at a train station. Some people were injured."

Poor victims. Guy needs help.

 

[dismal]

However, even though the D-dorf attacker is most likely Muslim, the authorities are deliberately vague about his identity. They did disclose his age, but as to where he is from, they only said he was from "former Yugoslavia". Why make a reference to a country that has not existed for a quarter century?

It depends on the situation. I describe my travels as including "Yugoslavia" because my memories are vague enough that I don't know what country(ies) I visited on a modern map.

The situation in this case is police looking at the records of a guy from Kosovo.

 

[Derec]

Did you know that probably also means probably not?

Probably also means probably not.

By definition you are both wrong.

 

[laughing dog]

So, the attacker was a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic who was not part of the wave of refugees from the last two years. The police do not think this was terrorism nor is there any indication that religion played a factor (source for all: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/several-injured-in-axe-attack-at-duesseldorf-train-station/2017/03/09/366557e8-0513-11e7-9d14-9724d48f5666_story.html?utm_term=.8c0d21b90538)

I think it should be obvious by now that the probable reason police did not release more details initially was to avoid wrong kneejerk reactions from a segment of the German public that might have led to more violence.

 

[braces_for_impact]

Hooray! Another knee-jerk, bigoted conclusion (followed by a conspiracy to hide it by main stream media) again debunked!

 

[Elixir]

Did you know that probably also means probably not?

I'm glad that you agree with me. I guess you like that one.

I'm sorry to see that your reading comprehension has not improved.
I love that one, but not for the reason you seem to think. I love it because it is emblematic of your lack of honesty and illogical assertions.