Dutch man, 69, who 'identifies as 20 years younger' launches legal battle to change age

[untermensche]

You're the transageophobic bigot.

A person is born once.

Nothing can change it. Nothing can move that moment of birth.

Just like a person can't change the gender they identify as.

But nobody is born with a gender identification.

That arises years after through experience.

If you do not have a mismatch between your body and your gender identification be happy. You did nothing to get it.

 

[fast]

I suspect that issues of sex and gender are not in fact identical to issues of age, height, location etc. But as to precisely why I am not sure. Is it mainly to do with pragmatism and consequences and not principle?

I would often lump sex in as being objective. Take a case where someone is born with sexual organs clearly establishing her as male. What is clear is that she is male. What isn't so clear at the time of birth is whether she is a girl--per transgenders logic.

If the child grows up in a males body and complains that she feels like she's always been a girl, some people will respect that (by referring to her as a woman), but that's gender, not sex. Choosing to identify as a woman doesn't alter their sex. Hell, I'm not even sure it alters their gender but rather what they identify as.

For example, she was born a male girl and is now a male woman with a history of previously identifying as a male boy.

Had the birth certificate listed gender, and if gender is a function of ones own personal identification, whoever reported her gender got it wrong since it was based on sex, but had the birth certificate listed sex (and it was easy to tell), that cannot be altered by a change in gender identification.

 

[untermensche]

Yes.

In a tiny few rare individuals the gender identification, which is something about the mind not the body, mismatches the sexual characteristics of the body.

The body is one thing and the mind another.

Some don't seem to comprehend this.

The body is born once on an exact date.

The mind changes for a lifetime.

This is about respecting the minds of people.

Something that is very hard for some to do.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

A birth certificate indicates "at time of birth this person had a penis" or "at time of birth this person had a vagina". How is changing that not changing the past?

Why do you think people can't change birth certificates? Aren't they free?



"You are a fascist. You are a racist. You are a Nazi. You want to punish people for giving you neg rep?" Jason Harvestdancer, giving me negative rep x 35.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

A birth certificate indicates "at time of birth this person had a penis" or "at time of birth this person had a vagina". How is changing that not changing the past?

Why do you think people can't change birth certificates? Aren't they free?

It's hard to change something written in ink. The birth certificates should be written in pencil, or at least an eraser-mate pen.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

A birth certificate indicates "at time of birth this person had a penis" or "at time of birth this person had a vagina". How is changing that not changing the past?

Why do you think people can't change birth certificates? Aren't they free?

It's hard to change something written in ink. The birth certificates should be written in pencil, or at least an eraser-mate pen.

When kids are adopted their birth certificates change.

https://family-law.freeadvice.com/family-law/adoption_law/adoption_birth_certificate.htm

 

[dismal]

You're the transageophobic bigot.

A person is born once.

Nothing can change it. Nothing can move that moment of birth.

Just like a person can't change the gender they identify as.

But nobody is born with a gender identification.

That arises years after through experience.

If you do not have a mismatch between your body and your gender identification be happy. You did nothing to get it.

That's the talk of transageophobic bigots justifying their bigotry.

Your bigotry causes you to obsess about the irrelevant. The day xir traveled down xirs mother's birth canal is irrelevant to xirs feelings about when xir was born.

What's relevant is the day xir identifies as having been born.

 

[untermensche]

You're the transageophobic bigot.

A person is born once.

Nothing can change it. Nothing can move that moment of birth.

Just like a person can't change the gender they identify as.

But nobody is born with a gender identification.

That arises years after through experience.

If you do not have a mismatch between your body and your gender identification be happy. You did nothing to get it.

That's the talk of transageophobic bigots justifying their bigotry.

That is insane.

You can say it. No sane person will buy it.

Your bigotry causes you to obsess about the irrelevant.

Your bigotry makes you take this whole train of argument. It is the argument of the bigot.

The day xir traveled down xirs mother's birth canal is irrelevant to xirs feelings about when xir was born.

True.

What's relevant is the day xir identifies as having been born.

No.

That is a delusion that can be made known.

But the day of your birth is set in stone as much as anything can be set in stone.

The gender you identify as is not set in stone at birth.

This clown and the bigots that think he has a point are transparent.

 

[Elixir]

Somehow when I see this trans-temporal guy saying he thinks he's 49, I can't help thinking of Trump saying he thinks he's a great moral leader.

 

[RVonse]

That's the talk of transageophobic bigots justifying their bigotry.

That is insane.

You can say it. No sane person will buy it.

Your bigotry causes you to obsess about the irrelevant.

Your bigotry makes you take this whole train of argument. It is the argument of the bigot.

The day xir traveled down xirs mother's birth canal is irrelevant to xirs feelings about when xir was born.

True.

What's relevant is the day xir identifies as having been born.

No.

That is a delusion that can be made known.

But the day of your birth is set in stone as much as anything can be set in stone.

The gender you identify as is not set in stone at birth.

This clown and the bigots that think he has a point are transparent.

So are you saying the birth certificate should just leave the gender blank so it can be filled in accurately at a later date?

Or perhaps birth certificates should be modified and say "penis or vagina" found instead of listing gender (which you say is unknown)?

What I think I hear you saying is that gender is unknown at birth even though the physical equipment can be easily specified.

 

[untermensche]

So are you saying the birth certificate should just leave the gender blank so it can be filled in accurately at a later date?

Nope.

The gender is a guess based on appearance. You can put one down but the person should be able to change it.

What I think I hear you saying is that gender is unknown at birth even though the physical equipment can be easily specified.

What I am saying is there are people saying they have a mismatch between the gender they identify as and their physical appearance.

They should be allowed to have that identification recognized by the government.

Nobody is harmed by this.

 

[dismal]

So are you saying the birth certificate should just leave the gender blank so it can be filled in accurately at a later date?

Nope.

The gender is a guess based on appearance. You can put one down but the person should be able to change it.

What I think I hear you saying is that gender is unknown at birth even though the physical equipment can be easily specified.

What I am saying is there are people saying they have a mismatch between the gender they identify as and their physical appearance.

They should be allowed to have that identification recognized by the government.

Nobody is harmed by this.

Nobody (except transageophobic bigots like you) is harmed by this guy identifying as 49 years old either.

 

[Elixir]

Nobody (except transageophobic bigots like you) is harmed by this guy identifying as 49 years old either.

I agree (except that should be "trans-temporal bigots"). But there are limits; when a shitgibbon says he self-identifies as a great moral leader, great harm can be done to many people.

 

[dismal]

Nobody (except transageophobic bigots like you) is harmed by this guy identifying as 49 years old either.

I agree (except that should be "trans-temporal bigots"). But there are limits; when a shitgibbon says he self-identifies as a great moral leader, great harm can be done to many people.

Pretty sure you've got to have "phobic" in there somewhere. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to going on internet sites and making transageophobic posts.

 

[ruby sparks]

It is surely an infringement of basic human rights to insist that someone must conform to, recognise or accept the identity preferences of another person. Someone who might meet this man on Tinder is fully entitled to hold that he is in fact (and I do not use the word lightly) 49, 59, 69, 79, 89, or even just 9, or indeed any age, even one without a 9 in it, and neither they nor anyone else should be oppressed, repressed, suppressed or even for that matter just pressed because of it. Although that said, someone who in turn oppresses them (the persons not accepting the first person's identity preferences) because of that should not in turn be oppressed because of that subsequent that. And so on. No one wants a culture of oppression to reign, except perhaps those with a valid preference for that, for which view they should not be oppressed unless it is by coincidence their preference, in which case it should be an option, but not a requirement, imo.

 

[untermensche]

Nope.

The gender is a guess based on appearance. You can put one down but the person should be able to change it.



What I am saying is there are people saying they have a mismatch between the gender they identify as and their physical appearance.

They should be allowed to have that identification recognized by the government.

Nobody is harmed by this.

Nobody (except transageophobic bigots like you) is harmed by this guy identifying as 49 years old either.

He says he wants to do it to lie to women about his actual age.

The government helping people lie to women is harming them.

A person's autonomy is violated with deceptions like this.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Nope.

The gender is a guess based on appearance. You can put one down but the person should be able to change it.



What I am saying is there are people saying they have a mismatch between the gender they identify as and their physical appearance.

They should be allowed to have that identification recognized by the government.

Nobody is harmed by this.

Nobody (except transageophobic bigots like you) is harmed by this guy identifying as 49 years old either.

He says he wants to do it to lie to women about his actual age.

The government helping people lie to women is harming them.

A person's autonomy is violated with deceptions like this.

So if you leave your basement long enough to go meet a girl, and a few hours into the encounter discover the girl has a penis, is your autonomy violated?

 

[untermensche]

He says he wants to do it to lie to women about his actual age.

The government helping people lie to women is harming them.

A person's autonomy is violated with deceptions like this.

So if you leave your basement long enough to go meet a girl, and a few hours into the encounter discover the girl has a penis, is your autonomy violated?

You mean somebody who appears to be a woman tells me after a few hours they have a penis?

No my autonomy is not violated.

 

[Trausti]

He says he wants to do it to lie to women about his actual age.

The government helping people lie to women is harming them.

A person's autonomy is violated with deceptions like this.

Is that like when I guy says he's a gal so he can compete in women's sport? Then breaks all the records? That's fair to real women, right?

 

[Elixir]

Nobody (except transageophobic bigots like you) is harmed by this guy identifying as 49 years old either.

I agree (except that should be "trans-temporal bigots"). But there are limits; when a shitgibbon says he self-identifies as a great moral leader, great harm can be done to many people.

Pretty sure you've got to have "phobic" in there somewhere. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to going on internet sites and making transageophobic posts.

Okay okay - whatever will help the chronomorphobic people understand ...