Early human slavery was NECESSARY for human progress

[Smoker]

god created heaven there is no slavery but earth is for human to learn and to be civilized

How much do you think all those slaves learned while they were working their asses off all day? Don't you think it would be easier for them to learn if they didn't have to work so much?

before invention of money slaves use as a work force build homes,wells, road, farms etc

I don't understand how you think that response answers either of my questions.

 

[DBT]

Early human slavery was NECESSARY for human progress

The principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits works quite well.

early human were uncivilized so they dont know the principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits

As others have already pointed out: it takes cooperation to plan and build towns and cities, store food, organize trade, profit and benefit being a part of planning, etc.

do you really believe primitive people know how to build towns and cities?

It's not what I happen to 'believe' but what the archeological evidence tells us.

 

[DrZoidberg]

god created heaven there is no slavery but earth is for human to learn and to be civilized

How much do you think all those slaves learned while they were working their asses off all day? Don't you think it would be easier for them to learn if they didn't have to work so much?

before invention of money slaves use as a work force build homes,wells, road, farms etc

What are your sources? The Roman roads, for example, where largely built by Roman soldiers. Most slaves in pre-history worked alongside their owners on regular farms. Chores where shared, and strictly speaking, unnecessary. The kind of mass works you're talking about came well after money was invented. Don't forget that money is used to buy slaves. So money is required for one person to amass a large number of slaves.

 

[funinspace]

Early human slavery was NECESSARY for human progress

The principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits works quite well.

early human were uncivilized so they dont know the principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits

Pure baloney. The earliest cities such as Catal Hoyuk were establish 9000 years ago. Creating heavily fortified cities takes a lot of cooperation, organization and long hard work to reap the rewards and benefits of a safe place to live.

when did human slavery started before money invented or after money invented?

Sure there was probably slavery prior to the use of money/currency. However, as I pointed out in post #109, money was in use 2 millennia prior to the start of the Roman Empire. Below describes the Greek use of coinage for centuries prior the Roman Empire even being a wet dream:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek_coinage

The history of Ancient Greek coinage can be divided (along with most other Greek art forms) into four periods, the Archaic, the Classical, the Hellenistic and the Roman. The Archaic period extends from the introduction of coinage to the Greek world during the 7th century BC until the Persian Wars in about 480 BC. The Classical period then began, and lasted until the conquests of Alexander the Great in about 330 BC, which began the Hellenistic period, extending until the Roman absorption of the Greek world in the 1st century BC.

do you really believe primitive people know how to build towns and cities?

This is a very strange question. Slaves didn’t typically provide the advanced knowledge to plan, design, or engage a major project. They were the grunt labor as directed by their masters.

As Keith said, you need to at least provide some argument/evidence that slavery is NECESSARY to civilizations development, not just some vague correlation. The pagan pantheon also vaguely correlates to the development of large empires. But somehow I don’t think you would ascribe causation upon the pagan gods.

 

[funinspace]

Additionally, the Egyptian pyramids are actually evidence that your (Syed) claim is FALSE. The Egyptians built what is considered one of the seven wonders of the world WITHOUT slavery.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/09/29/1242266/-Ancient-Egypt-Misconceptions-About-the-Pyramids#

While there was some slavery in Egypt, the pyramids were not built by slaves nor was there any wholesale enslavement of people because of their skin color, religion, or ethnic background.

The archaeological evidence shows that the pyramids were built by teams of workers from throughout Egypt. The construction of the pyramid complexes served as a kind of public works project which united the people. The workers lived in villages close to the construction site. Each of the pyramids had at least one workers’ village associated with it. These villages included dorms, dining halls, bakeries (bread was important in feeding the workers), and breweries. Archaeologists working in these village sites have uncovered evidence of sewage systems and paved streets with drainage facilities.

The thousands of workers worked in three month shifts. Their diets included meat on a regular basis. It is estimated that the 10,000 laborers working on the pyramids consumed about 21 cattle and 23 sheep each day. The cattle and sheep were provided by farms throughout Egypt.
Those who worked on the pyramids were given the honor of being able to be buried in mud brick tombs within the shadow of the pyramids.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Early human slavery was NECESSARY for human progress

The principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits works quite well.

early human were uncivilized so they dont know the principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits

Pure baloney. The earliest cities such as Catal Hoyuk were establish 9000 years ago. Creating heavily fortified cities takes a lot of cooperation, organization and long hard work to reap the rewards and benefits of a safe place to live.

when did human slavery started before money invented or after money invented?

Don't know. What does the Qu'ran say about it?

i am disappointed but not surprised

Seriously? You offer nothing but what would be a stretch to consider as a gut feeling on the subject and you really dare to get that snippy?

quran does not say any thing but rationally thinking tell me that slavery started before invention of money

Rational thinking typically involves research.

 

[Perspicuo]

After the domestication of horses, cattle and dogs, slavery is unnecessary.

do you mean horse , cattle and gods able to do human work?

Guided by humans, they provide horsepower. The rest humans can do for a fair salary.

.

i already mention that early human did not invented money

Oh, sorry my bad. I forgot humanity has to accept things because Syed says so.

This is the problem with discussions with Syed.

He hasn't progressed from his cricular notion that if the Qur'an says it, it's true. And he just can't understand why other people don't accept that.

Sad, really.

 

[dockeen]

It seems like he "falls in love" with arguments that strike him as clever, and contrary information never seems to change that love. How many times has he recycled
arguments like "only theists build hospitals", even after the point has been soundly thrashed.

 

[ideologyhunter]

That seems to be a defining quality of faith, innit? No default setting of skepticism.

 

[Perspicuo]

That seems to be a defining quality of faith, innit?

Not with me it wasn't. I cared about truth, and there's a heck of a lot of people out there who have faith and do. For them there is hope. They are the moderates. Those are the good apples of the fruit bowl of religion.

No default setting of skepticism.

Not for any member of the species. We are wired for the opposite--believing. A skeptical animal is dubitative and will get eaten, whereas an easy believer will survive. As a jittery bag of nerves and impulsively aggressive barking, but survive nonetheless.

 

[DBT]

Faith? I think this sums it up nicely:

"Faith is like a piece of blank paper whereon you may write as well one miracle as another." ~ Charles Blount (1654-1693)

Zeus and His entourage, Odin and His Mob, Shiva, Shakti, Brahma, Yahweh, Allah....take your pick, whatever appeals to one's needs. After all, it's all faith and you may choose as well one miracle as another.

 

[Underseer]

.early human slavery was NECESSARY for human progress

early human did not invented money and no one work for other people

so without man power human could not make progress

all past GREAT civilization built on slave workers

slavery responsible for civilizing human

allah did NOT condemn slavery because of that reason but make a way to abolish slavery by freeing them

since allah is all knowing, he knows that human slavery is responsible for civilizing human, so allah cant condemn something that civilized human

GOD IS GREAT

That you believe this explains why religion is bad for people.

 

[Syed]

.early human slavery was NECESSARY for human progress

early human did not invented money and no one work for other people

so without man power human could not make progress

all past GREAT civilization built on slave workers

slavery responsible for civilizing human

allah did NOT condemn slavery because of that reason but make a way to abolish slavery by freeing them

since allah is all knowing, he knows that human slavery is responsible for civilizing human, so allah cant condemn something that civilized human

GOD IS GREAT

That you believe this explains why religion is bad for people.

you are atheist you suppose to say that NO SURPRISED

 

[Syed]

Early human slavery was NECESSARY for human progress

The principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits works quite well.

early human were uncivilized so they dont know the principles of cooperation, reward and shared benefits

As others have already pointed out: it takes cooperation to plan and build towns and cities, store food, organize trade, profit and benefit being a part of planning, etc.

do you really believe primitive people know how to build towns and cities?

It's not what I happen to 'believe' but what the archeological evidence tells us.

then what makes them primitive people ?

 

[Keith&Co.]

then what makes them primitive people ?

No refrigerators.

Come on, Syed, tell us how to have slaves without cooperation?

How do you keep them working while you go out to get more slaves, if there's no cooperation?
How do you keep other people from taking your slaves without cooperation?

 

[Syed]

tell us how would roman, egypt and greek would have built their civilization without slavery?

You keep missing the point. You are arguing that your God wanted ancient civilisations to exist, so he had to let people keep slaves. But that doesn't make any sense alongside the assertion you have made elsewhere that your God is all-powerful and can do anything. If your God is supposed to be powerful and smart enough to create the universe, he's certainly powerful and smart enough to come up with a way to make civilisation develop without slavery.

The basic point is simple: if an all-powerful God exists, then whatever he wants, he gets. That's what all-powerful means. So whatever we observe to be actually the case -- like thousands of years of slavery -- must have been exactly what God wanted.

god created heaven there is no slavery but earth is for human to learn and to be civilized

What did the slaves learn?

That it's good to be The King?

did american's black slaves became president?

 

[Keith&Co.]

That you believe this explains why religion is bad for people.

you are atheist you suppose to say that NO SURPRISED

That's not exactly a retort, Syed.

And, really, all an atheist is supposed to say is that GODS DON'T EXIST.
The opinion on whether organized religion is a useful political tool, a social mechanism or a cancer on human history is not rigidly codified for atheists.
On the other hand, you do work very hard to unify us all with Underseer's position....

 

[DBT]

It's not what I happen to 'believe' but what the archeological evidence tells us.

then what makes them primitive people ?

If human society continues, what is going to make us appear to be primitive people in the eyes of those who may be living thousands years in the future?

 

[Syed]

It's not what I happen to 'believe' but what the archeological evidence tells us.

then what makes them primitive people ?

If human society continues, what is going to make us appear to be primitive people in the eyes of those who may be living thousands years in the future?

definition of primitive is they lives in cave, huts not in city

 

[Keith&Co.]

definition of primitive is they lives in cave, huts not in city

So...your claim is that primitive man couldn't make cities because by definition they didn't live in cities.

That's pretty fucked up for a definition, Syed. No surprise, really, but it's a total failure to establish your thesis.