Electric cars taking over the world?

[DrZoidberg]

It's still basic science. I don't understand what your problem with science is? I'm just happy researchers are studying it. It is a huge potential. You can't argue that.

Basic science says that when you put in 10 times more energy than you get out you failed. Yet these people call it success

Not necessarily. If you are doing an experiment you will put in more energy than you put out. The question is whether it still works when you scale it. All of these are modest in scale, on an experimental level.

It never a good idea to say that something will never work. It might.

Whether or not they make it work is another matter. But neither you or I knows this

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The shame is that there may be useful applications, but the fucking pie in the sky people are selling more than they can deliver.

That's how you get funding if you are researcher - you know it can't be done but if public is convinced it can then you play along and take their money.

Stop talking shit. You don't know this. It is a huge potential

I know this, it's you who does not know.

Nobody knows. It is not possible for anybody to know for sure. Including you. That's why we're doing the science. The purpose is to find out. And even if we don't crack the secret within the next decades, that still doesn't mean we can never know.

 

[barbos]

There is no secret, Bio-fuel is bullshit. It can only work when you have bunch of free cow shit or something. But there is not enough of it to make a dent in the current oil consumption. Key issue here is efficiency of photosynthesis which is less than a percent, this is basic science, the end.

 

[Derec]

The question is whether it still works when you scale it.

We lose money on every scale, but make up for it in volume?

 

[DrZoidberg]

The question is whether it still works when you scale it.

We lose money on every scale, but make up for it in volume?

We're still in the basic science phase. I'd say it's way too early to throw in the towel and accept defeat.

I'm sounding like a biofuel proponent. I'm not. I think it's the least interesting way to go. But I don't think that it's undoubtedly useless.

 

[Sarpedon]

Its acceptable to lose some energy from a plentiful source to transform the energy into a more useful form. We do it all the time.

 

[Malintent]

Its acceptable to lose some energy from a plentiful source to transform the energy into a more useful form. We do it all the time.

technically, we never don't do that... we CAN'T not do that... I know of no system that can transfer energy at 100% efficiency and get away with violating the laws of thermodynamics / entropy / friction, etc...

 

[barbos]

Its acceptable to lose some energy from a plentiful source to transform the energy into a more useful form. We do it all the time.

Well, in case of corn ethanol in US (which was produced on a large scale, thanks to the their lobby) energy balance was 1.3. Which means to produce 1.3 kg of ethanol you need to burn 1.0kg of ethanol. So
100./130 = 77% of ethanol produced would have to be lost

Some say energy balance of US corn ethanol was actually negative which means it was nothing but a loss.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

There is no secret, Bio-fuel is bullshit. It can only work when you have bunch of free cow shit or something. But there is not enough of it to make a dent in the current oil consumption. Key issue here is efficiency of photosynthesis which is less than a percent, this is basic science, the end.

Oil is bio fuel, just produced long ago.

 

[skepticalbip]

There is no secret, Bio-fuel is bullshit. It can only work when you have bunch of free cow shit or something. But there is not enough of it to make a dent in the current oil consumption. Key issue here is efficiency of photosynthesis which is less than a percent, this is basic science, the end.

Oil is bio fuel, just produced long ago.

But the oil industry was smart enough to let mother nature do all the expensive, energy demanding work of producing it.

 

[barbos]

There is no secret, Bio-fuel is bullshit. It can only work when you have bunch of free cow shit or something. But there is not enough of it to make a dent in the current oil consumption. Key issue here is efficiency of photosynthesis which is less than a percent, this is basic science, the end.

Oil is bio fuel, just produced long ago.

Yes, but some disagree. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin