Elon Musk didn't build that

[Axulus]

No, Elon Musk would still be the guy who got rich by selling PayPal to eBay.

So far, it looks like Musk's stuff is for the haves only. I am equally unimpressed as Barbos. I feel our technological age has created a lot of people who are extremely dependent on technology out of a box and who would feel very deprived if they had to live without any of it. We have very seriously strained our relationship to the ecosystems that support us and have generally lost track of our relationship to our world. It is as if we have forgotten we are living things, dependent on the same air as the insects and the trees. Everybody steps aside and curtsies for the 250 mile per charge car and the four gig cell phone. None of these things will alter our physical dependence on our environment. Guys like Jobs and Musk wear Madison Avenue halos and distract us with their gifts. In the end, they are just gifts of limited significance.

So all the hundreds of millions being poured into R&D by Tesla each year to make it cheaper and come up with new breakthroughs in the future do nothing? You can't be that clueless, can you?

 

[braces_for_impact]

It seems to me that certain more progressive Billionaires are trying to push the world in a certain direction. Musk with Tesla, the hyperloop, Satellite Internet for all, etc. and Google with self driving cars, AI Research, and so on. I often agree with what these people or companies are trying to do. Better batteries for a greener world, better mass transport, easier and more effective ways to educate and inform. We have Musk, Gates, Buffet, etc. The have Koch brothers, Sheldon Adelson, etc. I'll take our Billionaires any day.

 

[arkirk]

So far, it looks like Musk's stuff is for the haves only. I am equally unimpressed as Barbos. I feel our technological age has created a lot of people who are extremely dependent on technology out of a box and who would feel very deprived if they had to live without any of it. We have very seriously strained our relationship to the ecosystems that support us and have generally lost track of our relationship to our world. It is as if we have forgotten we are living things, dependent on the same air as the insects and the trees. Everybody steps aside and curtsies for the 250 mile per charge car and the four gig cell phone. None of these things will alter our physical dependence on our environment. Guys like Jobs and Musk wear Madison Avenue halos and distract us with their gifts. In the end, they are just gifts of limited significance.

So all the hundreds of millions being poured into R&D by Tesla each year to make it cheaper and come up with new breakthroughs in the future do nothing? You can't be that clueless, can you?

These things are done by people, not Tesla, and not Elon. I already mentioned the money they were pouring into battery development. That is a good thing but it is not the product of ONE MAN NAMED ELON. He and his company indeed are very capable. Their products however may or may not be the future of mankind as you are asserting. What portion of those hundreds of millions are taxpayer dollars? If their end products cost hundreds of thousands of dollars each, then it is perhaps not the best place for public money. Tesla is not the only company that could do that research.

 

[Bronzeage]

So far, it looks like Musk's stuff is for the haves only. I am equally unimpressed as Barbos. I feel our technological age has created a lot of people who are extremely dependent on technology out of a box and who would feel very deprived if they had to live without any of it. We have very seriously strained our relationship to the ecosystems that support us and have generally lost track of our relationship to our world. It is as if we have forgotten we are living things, dependent on the same air as the insects and the trees. Everybody steps aside and curtsies for the 250 mile per charge car and the four gig cell phone. None of these things will alter our physical dependence on our environment. Guys like Jobs and Musk wear Madison Avenue halos and distract us with their gifts. In the end, they are just gifts of limited significance.

So all the hundreds of millions being poured into R&D by Tesla each year to make it cheaper and come up with new breakthroughs in the future do nothing? You can't be that clueless, can you?

That's not really a fair assessment. For all the Tesla's bell and whistles, it still a car and depends upon our current one man-four tires transportation infrastructure. It's a nice car and it doesn't burn petrochemical fuel, and we're all happy about that, but it's not a solution to our problem. It's just another gizmo to make our current condition palatable for a few more years.

It's really no different than an SUV with a V-8 engine and a 12 speed transmission, both of which are controlled by a high speed computer to wring every possible bit of energy out of a drop of gasoline.

 

[Axulus]

So all the hundreds of millions being poured into R&D by Tesla each year to make it cheaper and come up with new breakthroughs in the future do nothing? You can't be that clueless, can you?

That's not really a fair assessment. For all the Tesla's bell and whistles, it still a car and depends upon our current one man-four tires transportation infrastructure. It's a nice car and it doesn't burn petrochemical fuel, and we're all happy about that, but it's not a solution to our problem. It's just another gizmo to make our current condition palatable for a few more years.

It's really no different than an SUV with a V-8 engine and a 12 speed transmission, both of which are controlled by a high speed computer to wring every possible bit of energy out of a drop of gasoline.

What is the "problem" you are referring to, that electric cars will not be a solution to?

- - - Updated - - -

So all the hundreds of millions being poured into R&D by Tesla each year to make it cheaper and come up with new breakthroughs in the future do nothing? You can't be that clueless, can you?

These things are done by people, not Tesla, and not Elon. I already mentioned the money they were pouring into battery development. That is a good thing but it is not the product of ONE MAN NAMED ELON. He and his company indeed are very capable. Their products however may or may not be the future of mankind as you are asserting. What portion of those hundreds of millions are taxpayer dollars? If their end products cost hundreds of thousands of dollars each, then it is perhaps not the best place for public money. Tesla is not the only company that could do that research.

No one says Musk did any of it all by himself, so I don't understand your point.

Without the money from the rich people who currently buy Teslas to help fund more R&D, where do you think the funding is going to continue to come from? Some sort of magical pool of money?

 

[ksen]

where do you think the funding is going to continue to come from? Some sort of magical pool of money?

The wealthy have a highly technical term for "magical pool of money." It's called "taxpayers."

 

[Bronzeage]

That's not really a fair assessment. For all the Tesla's bell and whistles, it still a car and depends upon our current one man-four tires transportation infrastructure. It's a nice car and it doesn't burn petrochemical fuel, and we're all happy about that, but it's not a solution to our problem. It's just another gizmo to make our current condition palatable for a few more years.

It's really no different than an SUV with a V-8 engine and a 12 speed transmission, both of which are controlled by a high speed computer to wring every possible bit of energy out of a drop of gasoline.

What is the "problem" you are referring to, that electric cars will not be a solution to?

I could say your response is the problem. Cars are such a ubiquitous part of our culture and society, we don't understand why we have them, anymore. They are just there.

A car requires an expensive infrastructure which doesn't have much utility for other kinds of transportation, so it takes resources from all other areas of infrastructure. Beyond that, a car needs 200 square feet of ground, while it does nothing for most of the night. It gets used for maybe an hour and then another 200 square feet in another place has to be waiting for it, when it gets to where it's driver needs to go. There has to be an all weather paved road between the front door and the destination. This could be work, it could be a store. It doesn't matter where, but if there is not enough parking, it can't be done. There are plenty of businesses which must have a parking area larger than the square footage of the actual business, or it's not a viable business.

I'm a business owner and I have to have parking spaces for customers and employees. This means I can only hire employees who have cars. If there are fully qualified people who would work for less, I can't take advantage of that. I pay for the electricity to light these parking spaces until 10 at night. My customer base is the driving public. I can't really appeal to people who can't drive, or don't own a car. How would they get here? The car culture means I spend more money to operate and have a smaller customer base.

I have no choice because these are business realities. That's a problem, but we are so used to it, nobody sees it.

 

[arkirk]

That's not really a fair assessment. For all the Tesla's bell and whistles, it still a car and depends upon our current one man-four tires transportation infrastructure. It's a nice car and it doesn't burn petrochemical fuel, and we're all happy about that, but it's not a solution to our problem. It's just another gizmo to make our current condition palatable for a few more years.

It's really no different than an SUV with a V-8 engine and a 12 speed transmission, both of which are controlled by a high speed computer to wring every possible bit of energy out of a drop of gasoline.

What is the "problem" you are referring to, that electric cars will not be a solution to?

- - - Updated - - -

So all the hundreds of millions being poured into R&D by Tesla each year to make it cheaper and come up with new breakthroughs in the future do nothing? You can't be that clueless, can you?

These things are done by people, not Tesla, and not Elon. I already mentioned the money they were pouring into battery development. That is a good thing but it is not the product of ONE MAN NAMED ELON. He and his company indeed are very capable. Their products however may or may not be the future of mankind as you are asserting. What portion of those hundreds of millions are taxpayer dollars? If their end products cost hundreds of thousands of dollars each, then it is perhaps not the best place for public money. Tesla is not the only company that could do that research.

No one says Musk did any of it all by himself, so I don't understand your point.

Without the money from the rich people who currently buy Teslas to help fund more R&D, where do you think the funding is going to continue to come from? Some sort of magical pool of money?

They had some of that magical pool of money....it is called subsidization. If they had produced a more affordable product they could get more return. Instead they went for only millionaire type people. Don't tell me you drive a Tesla!

 

[Axulus]

where do you think the funding is going to continue to come from? Some sort of magical pool of money?

The wealthy have a highly technical term for "magical pool of money." It's called "taxpayers."

So standard leftist solution to everything: just have the government pay for everything and double the budget of every department. Oh, and while you are at it, implement universal healthcare, universal basic income, free college, etc.

 

[Bronzeage]

The wealthy have a highly technical term for "magical pool of money." It's called "taxpayers."

So standard leftist solution to everything: just have the government pay for everything and double the budget of every department. Oh, and while you are at it, implement universal healthcare, universal basic income, free college, etc.

Or the standard rightist solution to everything, "Get the hell out of my way, you bloody peasants!"

 

[Axulus]

So standard leftist solution to everything: just have the government pay for everything and double the budget of every department. Oh, and while you are at it, implement universal healthcare, universal basic income, free college, etc.

Or the standard rightist solution to everything, "Get the hell out of my way, you bloody peasants!"

Right, because the only way that Tesla R&D can be privately funded is to get the "bloody peasants" out of the way.

 

[arkirk]

Or the standard rightist solution to everything, "Get the hell out of my way, you bloody peasants!"

Right, because the only way that Tesla R&D can be privately funded is to get the "bloody peasants" out of the way.

So how do you like your Tesla?

 

[ksen]

The wealthy have a highly technical term for "magical pool of money." It's called "taxpayers."

So standard leftist solution to everything: just have the government pay for everything and double the budget of every department.

lol, that's what you got out of that?

 

[Axulus]

So standard leftist solution to everything: just have the government pay for everything and double the budget of every department.

lol, that's what you got out of that?

Yep, you'd rather have the government spend more money rather than let the wealthy buy their Teslas to fund R&D.

If we do that for every industry, we could acheive a glourious rate of technological breakthrough not seen since the Soviet Union. Are you on board, comrade?

 

[Bronzeage]

Or the standard rightist solution to everything, "Get the hell out of my way, you bloody peasants!"

Right, because the only way that Tesla R&D can be privately funded is to get the "bloody peasants" out of the way.

You are not addressing the point. Plus, if you don't recognize MP&tHG references, there's not much point in going on.

 

[ksen]

lol, that's what you got out of that?

Yep, you'd rather have the government spend more money rather than let the wealthy buy their Teslas to fund R&D.

If we do that for every industry, we could acheive a glourious rate of technological breakthrough not seen since the Soviet Union. Are you on board, comrade?

You should read more betterer.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I've read he doesn't treat his workers well either, but I'll have to look more into that.

Seconded. I've likewise heard bad things.

 

[Jayjay]

So all the hundreds of millions being poured into R&D by Tesla each year to make it cheaper and come up with new breakthroughs in the future do nothing? You can't be that clueless, can you?

These things are done by people, not Tesla, and not Elon. I already mentioned the money they were pouring into battery development. That is a good thing but it is not the product of ONE MAN NAMED ELON. He and his company indeed are very capable. Their products however may or may not be the future of mankind as you are asserting. What portion of those hundreds of millions are taxpayer dollars? If their end products cost hundreds of thousands of dollars each, then it is perhaps not the best place for public money. Tesla is not the only company that could do that research.

Do you think NASA should be defunded, because sending people and equipment to space costs millions and can't be afforded by the average person? The reason why Tesla is initially a luxury car is that it's easiest to start from the top and make a few units, then expand to lower price segments. Which can be done by other companies also as the technology becomes cheaper.

 

[Nexus]

The reason why Tesla is initially a luxury car is that it's easiest to start from the top and make a few units, then expand to lower price segments.

I don't much about Musk but I did recently read a book of his called Zero to One. The guy has very innovative ideas. My guess is he's using the luxury Tesla to leverage into the greater market of future batteries. Probably even beyond car batteries. He mentioned this strategy with paypal when they chose to market it to Ebay users first before making it a general payment system. He said Amazon did this as well by first only going for the book market before branching out to other retail. By focusing on a niche market you can make your business more self sustaining rather that try to be everything at once without clear immediate objectives.

 

[NobleSavage]

If the government has to get into the business of subsidizing companies: I'd say Tesla, Solar City, and SpaceX are not a bad choice.