Europe submits voluntarily

[TSwizzle]

An organisation with mass market appeal, (like the French open) doesn't want a director unable to communicate intelligently. {snip}

]More male bovine excrement. Raymond Moore was hounded out his job for expressing an opinion that is counter to the new orthodoxy. He wasn't the first victim of such witch hunts and he won't be the last.

As for Climate Change, I really don't know what you mean? We're over run by climate change deniers and they stand unopposed. Carbon emissions just keep going up and up. This is a world of climate change deniers. The scientific community stand unified on this issue and nobody gives a shit. So not sure what you're talking about?

Oh for fuck's sake. There are no climate change deniers anywhere. What you are talking about is people that take issue with the cause of climate change. The clergy would have them burnt at the stake if they could get away with it. For now they will try to get then in the courts.

As for Islam. Are you really having difficulty finding people speaking up against Islam? Is anybody trying to shut you up here? You seem to be welcome to voice your opinion as much as you wish. The fact that mainstream media isn't chiming in.. well.... they've always been politically correct. What the fuck do you expect? Why would they now suddenly stop being politically correct and start bashing religion? What's your thinking here? They're politically correct for the same reason the French Open director got fired. If your product is a mass market product you don't want to risk annoying those who're paying your lunch.

Another large, steaming, pile of male bovine excrement. You really are a waste of my time and bandwidth.

 

[TSwizzle]

Hmm... in all fairness. That's not a Muslim thing. That's a Middle-Eastern thing. It's a widespread practice in the region. Especially the northen part of the region, along the Hindu-Kush mountains and from there into Turkish Kurdistan. The Christians in that region do it to, just as much as the Muslims. As for support from scripture, it's in all the holy texts. In Iran, ethnic Persians aren't doing it. Ritualised honour killings is only happening in minority tribal areas. Note, women being beaten to death by their spouses of course happens all over Iran, as it does in every society on the planet (and is distressingly common).

So it's complicated. I think it's dodgy to pin this on religion. I think it's more just a cultural practice. It's also linked to poverty and rural life. These groups are more conservative. What this tells us is that the practice will in time die out.

It's not complicated at all and it has become just another part of diversity in many European towns and cities. Yeah, we should all just pipe down because it makes people uncomfortable and well, it will die out if we wait long enough.

 

[arkirk]

The REAL news on the front of Europe submitting volutarily...not on your life. Greece and Turkey are agreeing to stop some peoples' migrations and send them back to Turkey...a country known for unadmitted genocide. How fucking handy that Turkey is there. Do you suppose Turkey submits voluntarily? This all is the result not of ISIS forming fifteen years ago (it did not). This is the result of continuous European and Jewish military intervention in the Middle East however for far longer than that. You keep pounding these countries into the dust and you get ISIS...a kind of hopeless suicidal revenge seeking thing...but it is only the RESULT of foreign intervention on behalf of fanatic Israeli Zionists and oil exploiters. One of the biggest myths of all is that the Saudis are somehow a U.S. ally.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Hmm... in all fairness. That's not a Muslim thing. That's a Middle-Eastern thing. It's a widespread practice in the region. Especially the northen part of the region, along the Hindu-Kush mountains and from there into Turkish Kurdistan. The Christians in that region do it to, just as much as the Muslims. As for support from scripture, it's in all the holy texts. In Iran, ethnic Persians aren't doing it. Ritualised honour killings is only happening in minority tribal areas. Note, women being beaten to death by their spouses of course happens all over Iran, as it does in every society on the planet (and is distressingly common).

So it's complicated. I think it's dodgy to pin this on religion. I think it's more just a cultural practice. It's also linked to poverty and rural life. These groups are more conservative. What this tells us is that the practice will in time die out.

It's not complicated at all and it has become just another part of diversity in many European towns and cities. Yeah, we should all just pipe down because it makes people uncomfortable and well, it will die out if we wait long enough.

It's not a question of piping down. It's a question of picking the right target. It's not religion. It's tradition. And that's a hell of lot more complicated to get at. As long as you think honour killings is a religious problem nothing will get fixed.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The deaths from Saddam's playing games with the sanctions exceeded the total war deaths. Since Saddam didn't even spend all the money he had available we can't be blamed for that.

There are all kinds of arguments but the imposition of the sanctions killed hundreds of thousands of people and were aimed at the Iraqi people, particularly the poor. A few years ago Saddam was at war with Iraq, and supported by the West, then our ally in the Middle East.

The sanctions were not aimed at the poor, they were aimed at keeping Saddam from rearming.

And I already pointed out that since Saddam didn't even spend all the money available we can't be blamed for what happened yet you go ahead and do so anyway. Saddam liked those deaths, they fooled people into thinking we were doing wrong.

So many on the left are incapable of seeing how scum like Saddam will sacrifice their own people to make us look bad, they fall for it hook, line and sinker.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The deaths from Saddam's playing games with the sanctions exceeded the total war deaths. Since Saddam didn't even spend all the money he had available we can't be blamed for that.

The deaths from the Sanctions are the responsibility of the people who instituted them.

They were murderous and everyone knew they were murderous yet they remained in place.

The resignation of two senior United Nations officials this month, in protest against the continuation of economic sanctions on Iraq, has caused political embarrassment to the US and British governments and their policy of maintaining the embargo on the Persian Gulf nation. It has once again brought to public attention the enormous suffering being inflicted on the Iraqi people by the administrations of British Prime Minister Tony Blair and US President Bill Clinton.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2000/02/iraq-f25.html

Another person who overlooked the key fact: Saddam didn't spend all the money he had available for food. So long as this is true you can't blame any malnutrition deaths on the sanctions.

I don't care what the world socialist website says about it and what the UN says means little more.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And what's an infographic that doesn't even address the issue supposed to prove? They have a few Islamist actions on there but there's no circle for Islam-driven conflict.

- - - Updated - - -

Wait what. No. Look at the numbers. Islam isn't even on the list. It's not even in the top 20 of killers. Even Buddhists have a more bloody history than Islam.

Islam not being on the list simply means they didn't put it on the list. There are multiple examples of Islamist deaths on that list and they're a drop in the bucket compared to the total.

Ok. I'm listening. How about producing some examples and numbers?

BTW, I reject the idea of religion driven violence. Whenever I learn about any "religious" conflict the core contention is always something pretty mundane, like control over a scarce resource or just ethnicity. Religion may influence how that violence is carried out (which minority is used as a scapegoat) but I don't think religion is an engine behind violence. Religion is more the colour of the car. Rather than the actual car.

I don't think anyone has good numbers on how many have died to Islamist violence.

That list that supposedly didn't show any has 9/11, the Boston Marathon bombings and the deaths supposedly due to the cartoons (in reality the cartoons were a damp squib. The trouble was in reaction to cartoons actually created by the Islamists themselves to stir up hatred) that come to mind right now. Other things that are clearly Islamist and didn't make the list are Boko Haram and al Shabaab. I don't recall if 7/11 made the list or not.

Most of the Islamist violence is in the Middle East and rarely reaches the level of being newsworthy--it's simply too common so only the most dramatic things (for example, that Easter attack in Pakistan) get reported.

 

[TSwizzle]

It's not complicated at all and it has become just another part of diversity in many European towns and cities. Yeah, we should all just pipe down because it makes people uncomfortable and well, it will die out if we wait long enough.

It's not a question of piping down. It's a question of picking the right target. It's not religion. It's tradition. And that's a hell of lot more complicated to get at. As long as you think honour killings is a religious problem nothing will get fixed.

As with female genital mutilation, it's all in with the religion. Another "tradition" that the diverse towns and cities of multicultural Europe have to contend with. You needn't bother with another one of you asinine "it's rural, agrarian society, will die out eventually" responses.

 

[untermensche]

The deaths from the Sanctions are the responsibility of the people who instituted them.

They were murderous and everyone knew they were murderous yet they remained in place.

The resignation of two senior United Nations officials this month, in protest against the continuation of economic sanctions on Iraq, has caused political embarrassment to the US and British governments and their policy of maintaining the embargo on the Persian Gulf nation. It has once again brought to public attention the enormous suffering being inflicted on the Iraqi people by the administrations of British Prime Minister Tony Blair and US President Bill Clinton.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2000/02/iraq-f25.html

Another person who overlooked the key fact: Saddam didn't spend all the money he had available for food. So long as this is true you can't blame any malnutrition deaths on the sanctions.

I don't care what the world socialist website says about it and what the UN says means little more.

I know you don't care about facts. This is entirely clear.

Everybody, except you, knew the Sanctions were causing the deaths of thousands. Miserable agonizing deaths.

Yet despite this fact they were maintained. Albright said it was a price WE were willing to pay. You couldn't find more lack of empathy in Nazi Germany.

Because there were many who didn't give a damn about the Iraqi people. That's why they killed and tortured them indiscriminately after launching a terrorist attack in 2003.

 

[whichphilosophy]

There are all kinds of arguments but the imposition of the sanctions killed hundreds of thousands of people and were aimed at the Iraqi people, particularly the poor. A few years ago Saddam was at war with Iraq, and supported by the West, then our ally in the Middle East.

The sanctions were not aimed at the poor, they were aimed at keeping Saddam from rearming.

And I already pointed out that since Saddam didn't even spend all the money available we can't be blamed for what happened yet you go ahead and do so anyway. Saddam liked those deaths, they fooled people into thinking we were doing wrong.

So many on the left are incapable of seeing how scum like Saddam will sacrifice their own people to make us look bad, they fall for it hook, line and sinker.

What do you mean re arm. We had armed him for years. He had more weapons than he needed. We know this because we supplied these to him. We went further to imagine Mass Weapons of Destruction which is why the sanctions extended. We had no proof. We knew he had stock piles of other destructives such as gas because Germany supplied these to him

 

[whichphilosophy]

The deaths from the Sanctions are the responsibility of the people who instituted them.

They were murderous and everyone knew they were murderous yet they remained in place.

The resignation of two senior United Nations officials this month, in protest against the continuation of economic sanctions on Iraq, has caused political embarrassment to the US and British governments and their policy of maintaining the embargo on the Persian Gulf nation. It has once again brought to public attention the enormous suffering being inflicted on the Iraqi people by the administrations of British Prime Minister Tony Blair and US President Bill Clinton.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2000/02/iraq-f25.html

Another person who overlooked the key fact: Saddam didn't spend all the money he had available for food. So long as this is true you can't blame any malnutrition deaths on the sanctions.

I don't care what the world socialist website says about it and what the UN says means little more.

No country can spend 'all its money on food'. It has to pay civil servants wages, for city infrastructures, water, gas, policing, and defence etc.

 

[bigfield]

And how, exactly, would a lack of political correctness have prevented the attack? What would have been done differently, and by whom?

I'm eager to see your reasoning, because the Charlie Hebdo article makes no attempt to explain the connection between PC and the Brussels attack.

Without PC muslims would have been forced to integrate into secular society better, instead of letting themselves to live in ghettos.

History demonstrates that minorities congregated in ghettos long before political correctness became a thing, therefore a lack of PC would not force Muslims to 'integrate into secular society better'.

 

[DrZoidberg]

It's not a question of piping down. It's a question of picking the right target. It's not religion. It's tradition. And that's a hell of lot more complicated to get at. As long as you think honour killings is a religious problem nothing will get fixed.

As with female genital mutilation, it's all in with the religion. Another "tradition" that the diverse towns and cities of multicultural Europe have to contend with. You needn't bother with another one of you asinine "it's rural, agrarian society, will die out eventually" responses.

No its not. FGM only occurs in a single region of Africa and is a tradition a hell of a lot older than Islam. If it's intrinsically Islamic why aren't all Muslims doing it?

On the other note. It will die out. FGM among immigrants only occur in first generation immigrants. Compared to other cultural habits it's one that dies out real quick. Why it keeps going on is because we keep getting immigrants from that region in Africa.

And for your information, it's also dying out in Africa. It'll be gone on 50 years.

 

[barbos]

Without PC muslims would have been forced to integrate into secular society better, instead of letting themselves to live in ghettos.

History demonstrates that minorities congregated in ghettos long before political correctness became a thing, therefore a lack of PC would not force Muslims to 'integrate into secular society better'.

That's rather mechanical and simplistic use of history on your part.
And history does not demonstrate that anyway.

 

[whichphilosophy]

As with female genital mutilation, it's all in with the religion. Another "tradition" that the diverse towns and cities of multicultural Europe have to contend with. You needn't bother with another one of you asinine "it's rural, agrarian society, will die out eventually" responses.

No its not. FGM only occurs in a single region of Africa and is a tradition a hell of a lot older than Islam. If it's intrinsically Islamic why aren't all Muslims doing it?

On the other note. It will die out. FGM among immigrants only occur in first generation immigrants. Compared to other cultural habits it's one that dies out real quick. Why it keeps going on is because we keep getting immigrants from that region in Africa.

And for your information, it's also dying out in Africa. It'll be gone on 50 years.

You are correct. It is something that predates Islam where some Muslims (and others) do still practice it. Wearing of the face veil does not appear anywhere in the Quran; not a single reference. However, some Muslim societies insist on it due to the some scholars insisting it is a requirement. We hope FMG is going to disappear.

 

[DrZoidberg]

No its not. FGM only occurs in a single region of Africa and is a tradition a hell of a lot older than Islam. If it's intrinsically Islamic why aren't all Muslims doing it?

On the other note. It will die out. FGM among immigrants only occur in first generation immigrants. Compared to other cultural habits it's one that dies out real quick. Why it keeps going on is because we keep getting immigrants from that region in Africa.

And for your information, it's also dying out in Africa. It'll be gone on 50 years.

You are correct. It is something that predates Islam where some Muslims (and others) do still practice it. Wearing of the face veil does not appear anywhere in the Quran; not a single reference. However, some Muslim societies insist on it due to the some scholars insisting it is a requirement. We hope FMG is going to disappear.

Wearing a veil also predates Islam. Back when the region was Christian wearing a veil was a Christian thing. In the 19'th century any honourable Swedish woman had her hair covered. Only prostitutes let it show. So this one isn't an Islamic thing either.

 

[whichphilosophy]

You are correct. It is something that predates Islam where some Muslims (and others) do still practice it. Wearing of the face veil does not appear anywhere in the Quran; not a single reference. However, some Muslim societies insist on it due to the some scholars insisting it is a requirement. We hope FMG is going to disappear.

Wearing a veil also predates Islam. Back when the region was Christian wearing a veil was a Christian thing. In the 19'th century any honourable Swedish woman had her hair covered. Only prostitutes let it show. So this one isn't an Islamic thing either.

The Niqab also predates Islam and of course is also not in the Quran

 

[bigfield]

History demonstrates that minorities congregated in ghettos long before political correctness became a thing, therefore a lack of PC would not force Muslims to 'integrate into secular society better'.

That's rather mechanical and simplistic use of history on your part.

That's a pointless statement.

And history does not demonstrate that anyway.

Of course it does. Ethnic enclaves have existed for far longer than 'political correctness' and are typically areas with low socio-economic status. Even the term 'ghetto' is centuries old and originally referred to a Jewish enclave.

 

[faded_Glory]

And how, exactly, would a lack of political correctness have prevented the attack? What would have been done differently, and by whom?

I'm eager to see your reasoning, because the Charlie Hebdo article makes no attempt to explain the connection between PC and the Brussels attack.

Without PC muslims would have been forced to integrate into secular society better, instead of letting themselves to live in ghettos.
The truth is, people don't like other people who are too different (this is an established scientific fact).
This is especially true for Europeans.

Can you elaborate on what exactly Muslims should have been forced to do, so as to avoid letting themselves live in ghetto's? Give me some examples.

 

[TSwizzle]

No its not. FGM only occurs in a single region of Africa and is a tradition a hell of a lot older than Islam. If it's intrinsically Islamic why aren't all Muslims doing it?

It is happening in the towns and cities of Europe and it happens to muslim women.

On the other note. It will die out. FGM among immigrants only occur in first generation immigrants. Compared to other cultural habits it's one that dies out real quick. Why it keeps going on is because we keep getting immigrants from that region in Africa.

And for your information, it's also dying out in Africa. It'll be gone on 50 years.

It's not "dying out". It is being eradicated through hard work, much to the consternation of the faithful. It's a constant battle.

Female genital mutilation is spreading among minority groups in Sudan despite widespread efforts to eradicate the practice, say campaigners. Women from communities which previously shunned FGM have told the Guardian they are being pressurised to undergo the procedure as adults to avoid being ostracised in a country with one of the highest FGM rates in the world. The latest Unicef report estimates that 87% of Sudanese women and girls aged between 15 and 49 have been cut.

Guardian