Europe's demise

[scombrid]

Can you think of anything multicultural besides food and music that has had a positive influence on our societies?

I wonder how mixing people from different parts of the world had changed how we see things such as:

• Our attitudes towards work and leisure
• How we treat our family and friends
• Religiosity
• The role of government in people's lives
• Tolerance of people who are different
• Intellectualism
• Social class

It's easy to point to something like Vietnamese food and say "that shit's amazing, and we wouldn't have that without Vietnamese immigrants".
But beyond a lack of good food, I wonder what trajectory my country would have taken if we had persisted with a whites-only - and therefore cultural homogeneous - immigration policy.

This is a very important point. The food is the accessible frosting on the cake. Underpinning that in such communities is a lot of people that have kept the good and practical from their cultures and moved away from a lot of the superstition and bigotry. Yes the Halal restaurant still had observant employees and some patrons. But they also have people just from around the neighborhood working there. The net effect of broad multicultural communities that aren’t siloed by bigotry or regulation is broad talent pools, tolerance of expression from head covered Muslims to rainbow non-binary, and something about as close to meritocracy as humans can achieve. It is far superior to the highly stratified racist southern town where I grew up.

 

[bilby]

Some of The finest Indian restaurants in the world are found in London.

I beg to differ; The finest Indian restaurants are found in Bradford, West Yorkshire, a few miles from Leeds, where I grew up.

London has some good ones too, but the food is no better, and is noticably more expensive.

 

[scombrid]

Can you think of anything multicultural besides food and music that has had a positive influence on our societies?

I wonder how mixing people from different parts of the world had changed how we see things such as:

• Our attitudes towards work and leisure
• How we treat our family and friends
• Religiosity
• The role of government in people's lives
• Tolerance of people who are different
• Intellectualism
• Social class

It's easy to point to something like Vietnamese food and say "that shit's amazing, and we wouldn't have that without Vietnamese immigrants".
But beyond a lack of good food, I wonder what trajectory my country would have taken if we had persisted with a whites-only - and therefore cultural homogeneous - immigration policy.

How about all the businesses started by immigrants, either first or second generation? Many of the world's most valuable companies were founded by immigrants in the US, raising wages and creating a lot of wealth.

The focus of the OP is about illegal immigration. If one the world's most valuable companies was started by an illegal immigrant in the US, I would like to hear about it. Most people don't have a problem with legal immigration done according to our laws, in particular, TSwizzle, who is a legal immigrant to the US himself.

Don’t have a problem with legal immigration but support throwing up a lot of barriers. Yeah, we get that.

I stand with the folks down in Fellsmere running the bakery and butcher shop and slinging tacos for the field hands that have been picking citrus and vegetables for decades. They aren’t legal but they should be. But the oligarchs want to keep them exploitable and that works best without papers. Shit my brother inlaw has been pushed around like crazy with his papers depending on employer sponsorship. They live that program to get highly talented chemists and engineers on the cheap. That type of legal immigration certainly doesn’t put Americans first except the company owners.

 

[bilby]

Multi-culturism seems to have acquired deep roots and flourished there long before now.

London has been a multi-cultural city for at least two thousand years - indeed, for longer than it has been in its current location*.

Once the Thames was established as a major trade route (prior to the Roman invasion, probably as early as the paleolithic), the multiculturalism of the inhabitants at locations where it could be forded or bridged was inevitable. The last fording point in the downstream direction was around the current location of the Houses of Parliament; The last location suitable for constructing a bridge was around the current site of London Bridge.

Inevitably the river just downstream of these points would become a major port; Equally inevitable was the the North bank would be chosen, as the south 'bank' was marshland with no clear boundary between river and swamp.

As the chief port of Britain, with boat access to both the interior of what was to become England, and to the wider world, London has been a multicultural settlement from the very beginning.

The Roman Empire brought people from what is now the Middle East and North Africa, and they never left. The Angles, Saxons, and Jutes all rolled up and added to the diversity. The Danes (who traded from Scandinavia to the Mediterranean) brought people from across Europe and from North Africa. The Normans injected a French seasoning to the mix, and the Crusaders brought further Middle Eastern people in to the city. Medieval trade through London was huge, and it became Europe's largest port, which it would remain until the C20th. The 'soft' protestantism of Henry VIII made England (and specifically London) a haven for refugees from Spanish Catholic totalitarianism, particularly Jews (though refugees had been arriving since well before Henry's reign); The Spanish colony in what is today The Netherlands was particularly convenient to London, and there was a huge flow of refugees across the Channel. England began her explorations of the world, inspired by the Spanish and Dutch success, bringing still more people to London from the Americas, from India, and from the Far East. The Thirty Years War drove another wave of European refugees to London, and a lot more Dutchmen arrived with William of Orange at the close of the C17th, bringing with them people from the new Dutch colonies in the Far East and the Americas.

And then, after all of that, the British set about building an Empire that spanned the globe, with London as its centre...






*Between the departure of the Romans and the arrival of the Normans, Roman London was effectively abandoned, and the population centre drifted to the area now called Westminster; It returned to its Roman location with the construction of the Tower of London by William the Bastard. These changes almost certainly occurred because if the presence, then absence, and then renewed presence, of a bridge across the river - the anglo-saxons used the ford, so moved upstream to its location.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Can you think of anything multicultural besides food and music that has had a positive influence on our societies?

I wonder how mixing people from different parts of the world had changed how we see things such as:

• Our attitudes towards work and leisure
• How we treat our family and friends
• Religiosity
• The role of government in people's lives
• Tolerance of people who are different
• Intellectualism
• Social class

It's easy to point to something like Vietnamese food and say "that shit's amazing, and we wouldn't have that without Vietnamese immigrants".
But beyond a lack of good food, I wonder what trajectory my country would have taken if we had persisted with a whites-only - and therefore cultural homogeneous - immigration policy.

Crazy Horse is responding from the beyond. You better duck.

 

[bilby]

The focus of the OP is about illegal immigration. If one the world's most valuable companies was started by an illegal immigrant in the US, I would like to hear about it.

Elon Musk, enemy of ‘open borders,’ launched his career working illegally

 

[pood]

Multi-culturism seems to have acquired deep roots and flourished there long before now.

London has been a multi-cultural city for at least two thousand years - indeed, for longer than it has been in its current location*.

Once the Thames was established as a major trade route (prior to the Roman invasion, probably as early as the paleolithic), the multiculturalism of the inhabitants at locations where it could be forded or bridged was inevitable. The last fording point in the downstream direction was around the current location of the Houses of Parliament; The last location suitable for constructing a bridge was around the current site of London Bridge.

Inevitably the river just downstream of these points would become a major port; Equally inevitable was the the North bank would be chosen, as the south 'bank' was marshland with no clear boundary between river and swamp.

As the chief port of Britain, with boat access to both the interior of what was to become England, and to the wider world, London has been a multicultural settlement from the very beginning.

The Roman Empire brought people from what is now the Middle East and North Africa, and they never left. The Angles, Saxons, and Jutes all rolled up and added to the diversity. The Danes (who traded from Scandinavia to the Mediterranean) brought people from across Europe and from North Africa. The Normans injected a French seasoning to the mix, and the Crusaders brought further Middle Eastern people in to the city. Medieval trade through London was huge, and it became Europe's largest port, which it would remain until the C20th. The 'soft' protestantism of Henry VIII made England (and specifically London) a haven for refugees from Spanish Catholic totalitarianism, particularly Jews (though refugees had been arriving since well before Henry's reign); The Spanish colony in what is today The Netherlands was particularly convenient to London, and there was a huge flow of refugees across the Channel. England began her explorations of the world, inspired by the Spanish and Dutch success, bringing still more people to London from the Anericas, from India, and from the Far East. The Thirty Years War drove another wave of European refugees to London, and a lot more Dutchmen arrived with William of Orange at the close of the C17th, bringing with them people from the new Dutch colonies in the Far East and the Americas.

And then, after all of that, the British set about building an Empire that spanned the globe, with London as its centre...






*Between the departure of the Romans and the arrival of the Normans, Roman London was effectively abandoned, and the population centre drifted to the area now called Westminster; It returned to its Roman location with the construction of the Tower of London by William the Bastard).

And let’s not forget multicultural Muslim Spain, where Muslims, Jews, Christians and others lived together in productive harmony for the most part — putting the lie to the usual slurs and slanders against Muslims that they are all inherently or culturally violent and intolerant.

 

[bilby]

Can you think of anything multicultural besides food and music that has had a positive influence on our societies?

I wonder how mixing people from different parts of the world had changed how we see things such as:

• Our attitudes towards work and leisure
• How we treat our family and friends
• Religiosity
• The role of government in people's lives
• Tolerance of people who are different
• Intellectualism
• Social class

It's easy to point to something like Vietnamese food and say "that shit's amazing, and we wouldn't have that without Vietnamese immigrants".
But beyond a lack of good food, I wonder what trajectory my country would have taken if we had persisted with a whites-only - and therefore cultural homogeneous - immigration policy.

Crazy Horse is responding from the beyond. You better duck.

I was not aware that Crazy Horse ever visited, or even expressed an opinion about, Australia.

 

[pood]

Notice that Multicultural Muslim Spain was around for nearly 700 years — how long has the U.S. been around? And how long does anyone really think it will last? It already appears on its last legs, after the hostile takeover of the government by the Organ Goblin and his gang of goons, grifters, geeks and freaks. And this nation was never all that tolerant to begin with, what with, you know, human slavery for nearly its first century.

 

[ideologyhunter]

I was not aware that Crazy Horse ever visited, or even expressed an opinion about, Australia.

Holy Shit!! It was an Aussie posting!! Ya got me.
In my defense, I took the Donald J. Trump Speed-Reading Course from Trump U. (Pay someone to read shit for you, then they summarize it in 10 words; if that doesn't work, read only the first sentence and the last 5 words; if that doesn't work, drop the book in the toilet and declare that it is now unreadable.)

 

[pood]

I was not aware that Crazy Horse ever visited, or even expressed an opinion about, Australia.

Holy Shit!! It was an Aussie posting!! Ya got me.
In my defense, I took the Donald J. Trump Speed-Reading Course from Trump U. (Pay someone to read shit for you, then they summarize it in 10 words; if that doesn't work, read only the first sentence and the last 5 words; if that doesn't work, drop the book in the toilet and declare that it is now unreadable.)

Trump signs executive order making official U.S. language remedial English.

I have to laugh in order not to cry. This is not even satire.

 

[pood]

Anyway, the bitter and whining OP from you know who is just the usual gaslighting. Europe needs immigrants because of its sharply falling birth rates. Italy especially is withering away. If, in a few hundred years — and if civilization survives the same climate change that the author of the OP denies — Europe is largely Muslim, I bet they will be just fine, along the lines of multicultural Muslim Spain.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Someone's gotta pick the grapes for fatass MAGAs like the Trump Dynasty.

 

[pood]

Since the author of the OP has such strong feelings about Muslims in England and the “demise” of Europe, maybe he ought to consider what the potential collapse of the AMOC due to human-induced climate change would do to Merry Olde England. Oh, but wait — what’s the temp in Santa Monica today? Also — I almost forgot — he gets his “info” from The Daily Fail.

 

[pood]

You really have to like the name William the Bastard. Maybe someone will go down in history as Donald the Douchebag.

 

[ideologyhunter]

You've read his divorce filings?

 

[RVonse]

Can you think of anything multicultural besides food and music that has had a positive influence on our societies?

I wonder how mixing people from different parts of the world had changed how we see things such as:

• Our attitudes towards work and leisure
• How we treat our family and friends
• Religiosity
• The role of government in people's lives
• Tolerance of people who are different
• Intellectualism
• Social class

It's easy to point to something like Vietnamese food and say "that shit's amazing, and we wouldn't have that without Vietnamese immigrants".
But beyond a lack of good food, I wonder what trajectory my country would have taken if we had persisted with a whites-only - and therefore cultural homogeneous - immigration policy.

How about all the businesses started by immigrants, either first or second generation? Many of the world's most valuable companies were founded by immigrants in the US, raising wages and creating a lot of wealth.

Doesn't tell us anything because the people who actually have the skills, ability, and intelligence to immigrate will also be in the top tier of talent who can start business and create a lot of wealth. Those start ups would have nothing at all to do with their culture, race, or diversity. Furthermore, the few indigenous talented people who already do live in the US would be able to afford (unlike an immigrate) to just sit around and produce nothing especially with a welfare government the US now has.

 

[bilby]

Can you think of anything multicultural besides food and music that has had a positive influence on our societies?

I wonder how mixing people from different parts of the world had changed how we see things such as:

• Our attitudes towards work and leisure
• How we treat our family and friends
• Religiosity
• The role of government in people's lives
• Tolerance of people who are different
• Intellectualism
• Social class

It's easy to point to something like Vietnamese food and say "that shit's amazing, and we wouldn't have that without Vietnamese immigrants".
But beyond a lack of good food, I wonder what trajectory my country would have taken if we had persisted with a whites-only - and therefore cultural homogeneous - immigration policy.

How about all the businesses started by immigrants, either first or second generation? Many of the world's most valuable companies were founded by immigrants in the US, raising wages and creating a lot of wealth.

Doesn't tell us anything because the people who actually have the skills, ability, and intelligence to immigrate will also be in the top tier of talent who can start business and create a lot of wealth.

Yes, that's the point. Immigrants are self-selected to be better than the average person in the country they adopt.

Those start ups would have nothing at all to do with their culture, race, or diversity.

Yes, that's the point. Culture, race, and diversity are irrelevant; It's pointless and counterproductive to block people from migrating because of these things.

Furthermore, the few indigenous talented people who already do live in the US would be able to afford (unlike an immigrate) to just sit around and produce nothing especially with a welfare government the US now has.

You have got to be fucking kidding.

 

[pood]

You have got to be fucking kidding.

He’s not kidding. It’s evident he lives in a límbo of delusions, a combination echo chamber and hall of mirrors of.poisonous lies peddled by right-wing news media and social media that return and amplify to him his worst ill-informed biases, and in doing so no doubt giving him a satisfying dopamine high.

 

[pood]

Very few people take the long view of history. Some 300 years ago — an eyeblink in human time, to say nothing of geological time — the United States did not even exist. Europe was very different in many ways. So, of course, was North America. No political or cultural arrangements are permanent. They are dust in the wind. I expect that in another 300 years, if civilization survives climate change, the civilized world will again be radically different from what it is now. I doubt the U.S. will still be around as a unified entity. Large parts of India and China, the two most populous nations in the world, are likely to be rendered uninhabitable by climate change. It’s just so parochial to worry about Muslim immigrants or any immigrants. When the climate change that Swizzle denies really kicks, you just watch how many climate immigrants there will. Their numbers will be legion, mostly from nations that people like climate-change denier Swizzle detests.