• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

Evergreen University Students have hissy fit when professor refuse to play along

The trouble at Evergreen State College pre-dates the incident reported in the OP.
Well, it is true that Evergreen State has been very nutty for a long time now.
For example, Rachel "do you know how much damage this bulldozer would sustain if I just let it roll over you?" Corrie was a student there.

Apparently, two black students wanted to pack a classroom with non-white students although they made it clear they were not trying to keep white students out.
Well, that's mighty black1 of them ...

A fellow student took umbrage, which led to public arguments and allegations of racism. The offended party called the cops after an argument with one of the students, saying he felt threatened. The cops took the two black students into custody and held them for hours in the middle of the night, which caused even more anger on campus.
Not sure what led to police getting involved. Was there a physical altercation?

So, as I'm sure most people suspected, there's a backstory to the incident with the Biology professor. I wonder what else has been happening on that campus. I'm especially curious about the reasons those two black students wanted a non-white majority of students enrolled in one particular class (Mediaworks: Re/Presenting Power and Difference).
You mean other than racism? But of course, leftists are still denying that black people can even be racist ...

ETA: Maybe this had something to do with it.
Do we have the video in question to judge for ourselves? Making fun of self-righteous campus activists using their own words is not in itself either racist or even inappropriate.

1 a play on "mighty white of you" ...
 
Well, it is true that Evergreen State has been very nutty for a long time now.
For example, Rachel "do you know how much damage this bulldozer would sustain if I just let it roll over you?" Corrie was a student there.

And the University of Washington is still know as "serial killer central" because Ted Bundy took some classes their, therefore we can stereotype the whole university in perpetuity throughout the universe. (But not the multiverses because in some of them we have President Bundy who turned out to be cool and not a serial killer.)
 
Kai-Avé Douvia sounds like a major instigator

It's difficult to know the full details as the reports contain mainly hearsay.
By his own admission, he was a major player in the online harassment of Jamil (the student who posted the call for PoC to register for the class). By his own admission, he was the one who posted the counter-call for white students to sign up for the class. By his own admission, he was calling out Jamil at Jamil's dorm. By his own admission, he called police TWICE to claim he was "feeling threatened". By his own admission, he even showed up at the gathering of students showing support to Jamil and his friend after they were questioned by police.

I think it is abundantly clear that - by his own admission - he was a major instigator in stirring up trouble.
 
It's difficult to know the full details as the reports contain mainly hearsay.
By his own admission, he was a major player in the online harassment of Jamil (the student who posted the call for PoC to register for the class). By his own admission, he was the one who posted the counter-call for white students to sign up for the class. By his own admission, he was calling out Jamil at Jamil's dorm. By his own admission, he called police TWICE to claim he was "feeling threatened". By his own admission, he even showed up at the gathering of students showing support to Jamil and his friend after they were questioned by police.

I think it is abundantly clear that - by his own admission - he was a major instigator in stirring up trouble.

Were these not a counter protest at exclusion but asking people to register? However if any actions were harassment, they should be dealt with with discipline if they were within the campus.

He claims he himself is of 'colour.' I checked his image on google and it seems he could be of a variety of perceived faces.
Really this whole situation should not have been started in the first place.

After class, it's okay to organise various events that need not disrupt the education process, but excluding one group for any reason is erroneous.
 
By his own admission, he was a major player in the online harassment of Jamil (the student who posted the call for PoC to register for the class). By his own admission, he was the one who posted the counter-call for white students to sign up for the class. By his own admission, he was calling out Jamil at Jamil's dorm. By his own admission, he called police TWICE to claim he was "feeling threatened". By his own admission, he even showed up at the gathering of students showing support to Jamil and his friend after they were questioned by police.

I think it is abundantly clear that - by his own admission - he was a major instigator in stirring up trouble.

Were these not a counter protest at exclusion but asking people to register?
Had he left it at only the counter-call for whites to register, I might agree with you. He didn't leave it at that. He repeatedly tried to instigate trouble, and then called the police twice as a further means of harassment.

It almost sounds like Kai-Avé Douvia is a Scientologist practicing 'fair game'

I don't think any person is completely right or completely wrong in the overall series of events, but I do think this particular student was a passive-aggressive instigator.
 
Were these not a counter protest at exclusion but asking people to register?
Had he left it at only the counter-call for whites to register, I might agree with you. He didn't leave it at that. He repeatedly tried to instigate trouble, and then called the police twice as a further means of harassment.

It almost sounds like Kai-Avé Douvia is a Scientologist practicing 'fair game'

I don't think any person is completely right or completely wrong in the overall series of events, but I do think this particular student was a passive-aggressive instigator.

If he goes beyond reasonable steps, true then it is what you say. I think Scientologists tend to hire lawyers nowadays, costly as it seems :)
 
The trouble at Evergreen State College pre-dates the incident reported in the OP.

Apparently, two black students wanted to pack a classroom with non-white students although they made it clear they were not trying to keep white students out. A fellow student took umbrage, which led to public arguments and allegations of racism. The offended party called the cops after an argument with one of the students, saying he felt threatened. The cops took the two black students into custody and held them for hours in the middle of the night, which caused even more anger on campus.

So, as I'm sure most people suspected, there's a backstory to the incident with the Biology professor. I wonder what else has been happening on that campus. I'm especially curious about the reasons those two black students wanted a non-white majority of students enrolled in one particular class (Mediaworks: Re/Presenting Power and Difference).

ETA: Maybe this had something to do with it.

Thank you so much for sharing that background information that's quite helpful in contextualizing the video earlier posted.

I went ahead and Googled Kai-Avé Douvia, and I came away with reading an article called "The Price of Having a Different Opinion on a Left Wing Campus." Kai-Avé Douvia wrote an article called, "Leftist Alien Among Leftist Peers." I am not sure what to make of it all; so, I'll try to break down my thoughts as best as possible.

From what I understand, Kai-Avé Douvia, a Puerto Rican and Native American, felt that a group of persons of color being invited to join a media class is a call for (reverse) racism: I strongly disagree. As a woman, if I create, say, an online meetup group inviting women to discuss women's issues, I don't mean to create the impression that I am or would be against men joining. It does mean, however, that I want to be in the presence of a like-minded individuals to discuss issues that I think uniquely affect women.

Similarly, I assume Jamil didn't intend any discrimination when he created a May 10th FB post asking minorities to sign up for the class; it seems a given, at least to me, that the intention was not to bar any white persons from signing up for the class especially as Jamil had also subsequently made clear that his call wasn't intended to prevent any interested white persons from joining the class.

Of course, Kai-Avé Douvia has a right to express his objection to the FB post. However, I question his interpretation of Jamil's FB post as being racist against whites. I remember when I was in college hearing about a BSU meeting in which free food (pizza and drinks!) was being offered, and I showed up to the meeting. I am not black. The black students welcomed my presence, and they seemed to appreciate my interest.

In the article Kai-Avé Douvia has authored, he writes, "Claims have now been made that since I spoke out against a black student, I am now racist (regardless of my brown skin)." I don't personally know him: so, I can't say whether he's a racist or not. But I strongly disagree with the implication that being brown inoculates a person from having racist attitudes against other minorities, in this case, blacks. In my own lifetime, I have seen gay people talk disparagingly about transgender people; and that is because a person being gay doesn't mean that a person is automatically given to appreciate a trangender's perspective.

That being said, I do see why black students are upset: two black students were woken up late into the night on May 14th and questioned for approximately three hours by police without having any lawyer being present though they were not placed under arrest, and they did not (at any time) feel they were free to either leave or even use the restroom during this period of interrogation. That's outrageous. No crime had been committed to have inspired this type of highhanded treatment of the black students from the Evergreen police.

Having said that, I understand that Kai-Avé Douvia was threatened both online and in real life due to some zealous verbal attacks from other students. So, since he felt threatened, he called the police.

However, the police should have questioned the two black students at a more appropriate time on May 15th instead in the afternoon and should have made clear that the students are allowed to leave or use the restroom and also have a lawyer present even if they are not under arrest during the questioning. And I do question whether the same treatment would have been meted out should the students in question not have been black but instead white. I do think "whiteness" in our American society undeniably confers some privilege, though of course I think it's very important to remember for all of us that not all whites considered currently "white" are privileged in our society because I do think forgetting this fact specific to poor whites is at least one reason for DP's defeat in the 2016 election.

And from what I understand, in weeks past, there were other incidents on Evergreen that made the other black students wary. Apparently, the College Republicans had erected a "Trump wall" on campus and there had been subsequently a rally organized by others to protest that wall. Somehow, a heated discussion took place that ended up on an edited video at a YouTube channel ridiculing the black students with a line of “I think you should go back to Africa.” At the video's existence, the black students were upset. They felt the unknown individual responsible for creating and posting the YouTube video felt comfortable enough within the space of the college environment to make and edit the video for ridiculing blacks because the campus administrators' allowance of erection of that "Trump wall" worked as at least a tacit encouragement to racists and white nationalists on campus.

Finally, as a non-relevant aside, I am very glad that I'm not attending college in the Trumpian era.

Peace.
 
Last edited:
I wanted to write a separate post to address the points raised in the two articles I'd posted that I'd found in Google search.

I don't think it's simply an issue of free speech as both Stuart Clayton Lee and Kai-Avé Douvia are making the matter out to be; the reason I don't think it's a free speech issue is because no one is questioning specifically their rights in a free society to actually post their opinions or make their opinions public. What the black students were doing is specifically interpreting the two students' exercise of their free speech as offensive. "X is a retard" might be free speech. However, then, X has a right to deem that speech offensive.

Stuart Clayton Lee is making in his article points worth a discussion specific to notion of racial collectivism and we should have that discussion; however, that does not mean that a person who doesn't know Stuart Clayton Lee is going to know that his cartoon was born from the notion of racial collectivism being racist in itself. They are going to simply look at the cartoon and see a black person, a group well-known to be historically oppressed, kissing a Klu Klux Klan member, the oppressor. Whom does one kiss? A person kisses the person they love or to which they hold an attraction. So, the cartoon, even with the bubbles, and the yellow filled-in circle, seems to be apart from saying that they're more alike than they'd wish in their thought processes also implying that there is an attraction to one another.

Kai-Avé Douvia too believes that racial collectivism is something that we should avoid and instead stick to individualism; however, again, the people do not know his background specific to his thoughts on racial collectivism. All they see is him writing a return FB post in which he substituted the call for people of color to sign up for the class with the word "white." Given the incident of the Trump wall and the video, I can see how such can be interpreted within the wider context to easily be racist even if its intention is not de facto racist.

The only free speech issue I see is some students saying that they felt the administration should not have given permission for the College Republicans to have a Trump wall.

I wish I could write a more nuanced post here because there are so many issues here that I feel are being raised within the articles they'd written, but I am tired and have yet to eat because I'd been fasting all day. So, I'll give writing a more detailed post a miss and hope someone else takes the torch and addresses the issues that the two Evergreen students raised.

Peace.
 
No, you and people who think like you have not the first idea of what racism is and who racists are.
Hint: In the case of "Evergreen State University" it is the "black power"-type students, and not those who take an issue with them.
Another article:
NEW VIDEO: Madness reigns at Evergreen State College as students ‘take over’

some black racist at Evergreen State said:
We been here before you. We built these cities, we had civilization way before you ever had … comin’ out your caves.”

You and other left-wing radicals do not think statements like this are racist simply because they are made by blacks against whites.
Your post is provides evidence of untermensche's observations of "Racists think we don't know they are racists.

The things they fixate on gives them away. "
 
So, this thread seems to be conflating two distinct issues. The first is whether there are legit gripes by minority students on this campus, including the actions of a completely different professor, Douvia.

The second is about the harassment and calls for firing of Weinstein, which really has nothing to do with that other issue but only with what Weinstein himself said and how some have reacting to him. The OP is about this latter point and where on the spectrum does the reaction to Weinstein fall between being reasonable and justified to being a reflection of a blind, kneejerk irrationality with slanderous accusations of racism by some students without regard for actual liberal principles. Based on his highly reasonable and thoughtful statements I have read so far, the truth seems much closer to the latter. I agree with pretty much everything he said regarding the planned "Day of Absence", but even if one has no real problem with the Day of Absence that would not warrant the response against him unless you thought his response was grossly unreasonable or had sinister motives.

Is there anyone here who thinks that is reasonable for students to try and prevent his ability to hold class and to get him fired for his concerns about the Day of Absence?
 
So, this thread seems to be conflating two distinct issues. The first is whether there are legit gripes by minority students on this campus, including the actions of a completely different professor, Douvia.

The second is about the harassment and calls for firing of Weinstein, which really has nothing to do with that other issue but only with what Weinstein himself said and how some have reacting to him. The OP is about this latter point and where on the spectrum does the reaction to Weinstein fall between being reasonable and justified to being a reflection of a blind, kneejerk irrationality with slanderous accusations of racism by some students without regard for actual liberal principles. Based on his highly reasonable and thoughtful statements I have read so far, the truth seems much closer to the latter. I agree with pretty much everything he said regarding the planned "Day of Absence", but even if one has no real problem with the Day of Absence that would not warrant the response against him unless you thought his response was grossly unreasonable or had sinister motives.

Is there anyone here who thinks that is reasonable for students to try and prevent his ability to hold class and to get him fired for his concerns about the Day of Absence?
I have no problem with an Day of Absence. Hell, I wish we had them. But it is ridiculous to have anyone fired for speaking out about it.
 
Based on their website if all the white people leave there may not be much of a college left...

http://evergreen.edu/campuslife

Maybe that's why they're asking them to leave only for a day. Instead of, like, 10 years.
 
Based on their website if all the white people leave there may not be much of a college left...

http://evergreen.edu/campuslife

Maybe that's why they're asking them to leave only for a day. Instead of, like, 10 years.

What did they used to call a place that only had people of color?

Separate and unequal.

Now it seems some long for that state they said was harmful not too long ago.

Hard to know what these people want. Removal of a race is an insane idea no matter who comes up with it.

But also not too hard to take a day off.

We're not talking public dismemberment.

Just a handful of crazy kids that have too much power.

Lord of the flies stuff. Isolated. Not some national emergency.
 
Based on their website if all the white people leave there may not be much of a college left...

http://evergreen.edu/campuslife

Maybe that's why they're asking them to leave only for a day. Instead of, like, 10 years.

What did they used to call a place that only had people of color?

Separate and unequal.

Now it seems some long for that state they said was harmful not too long ago.

Hard to know what these people want. Removal of a race is an insane idea no matter who comes up with it.

But also not too hard to take a day off.

We're not talking public dismemberment.

Just a handful of crazy kids that have too much power.

Lord of the flies stuff. Isolated. Not some national emergency.

So yoir point is that those who fought hard to end school segregation ruined thousands of people's days without white people?
 


woah, this interview has a very interesting story the prof tells starting at 9 minutes in.
 
What did they used to call a place that only had people of color?

Separate and unequal.

Now it seems some long for that state they said was harmful not too long ago.

Hard to know what these people want. Removal of a race is an insane idea no matter who comes up with it.

But also not too hard to take a day off.

We're not talking public dismemberment.

Just a handful of crazy kids that have too much power.

Lord of the flies stuff. Isolated. Not some national emergency.

So yoir point is that those who fought hard to end school segregation ruined thousands of people's days without white people?

Can you read?
 
Sure.

Begging to work when you can stay home and take the day off.

Madness.

Take a day off professor. You won't die.

I say there should be a national holiday where white people can just take the day off.

Taking a day off as, say, a reward for hard work and dedication is not the same thing as being told not to show up at work because you weren't born with the right color skin. I don't see how you can not see the difference. And no, there should not be a national holiday where someone gets a day off just because of their race.

I worked for a company that gave you a choice... take off Columbus Day, or Martin Luther King's Day. Guess how that was expected to work out?
 
May or may not be related:

http://www.evergreen.edu/news/post/olympia-campus-status-update-june-1-2017-530pm

Around 10:30 a.m. Thursday morning Evergreen officials were notified that TCOMM 911 had received a call from an individual claiming to be armed and en route to Evergreen's Olympia campus. The call was made from an unknown telephone number to a regular business line.

Upon notification from TCOMM 911, and on the advice of law enforcement, President George Bridges made the cautionary decision to close campus. Evergreen students, staff, and faculty members were notified of the closure via an emergency text system, mass email, and a campus-wide speaker system.
 
This is a movie, but it is interesting to compare this opening student radical meeting of Zabriskie Point to Evergreen

 
Back
Top Bottom