Everything I Learned About WW II Is A LIE!

[skepticalbip]

bilby,
When I speask of executions, I of course am referring to the victims of the holocaust. You want evidence? Look up "The Haavara Agreement." Tell me what kind of "final solution" that is. Hell, Hitler had a lot to do with there being a modern state of Israel. Next, I never had anything in my thread refuted. All I hear is that my "evidence" isn't good enough. I'm not working on a doctoral theisis or writing things ment for a textbook. All I am doing it stlling people things.

You don't seem to have an understanding of timelines. The Haavara Agreement was 1933, six years before the war started and nine years before "Final Solution" was put into serious effect. Hitler was trying to empty Europe of Jews well before the war started. Before the war and only dealing with German Jews, he tried sending them to the Middle East. After 1939 and the invasion of Poland, the NAZIs suddenly had millions more Jews they had to figure out what o do with. Germany overrunning Holland, France, incursion into the USSR, etc. added more millions of Jews for the NAZIs to try to eliminate from Europe.

Your problem, since you believe they weren't killed, is to a explain how millions that were accounted for by name in the census in 1939, were not available to reclaim their property and businesses or to be counted in the census after 1945.

 

[cultsmasher]

So, you're doomed to have a false history? That doesn't sound like a particularly bad doom.

You could have been doomed to an office job without a future or something.

Tom Sawyer,
You have no idea the evil ends such lies have led to. Byt there was a girl in San Francisco who recently learned. It was taught to her with a gun by an overpopulating illegal invader scab scum named Sanchez.

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Everybody lies.

There are lots of reasons.

bilby,
Some lies just lead to worse ends than others.

 

[cultsmasher]

I like the way that the 1940s U.S. Government lied about the Holocaust in order to promote a multiethnic society.

Tom Sawyer,
They were doing that before we got the statue of liberty. Which I might add that we got only because the Egyptians didn't want the pile of filth hanging around the Suez Canal. Also, remember what some Jew broad wrote on it? "Give us your tired, your poor, etc" There probably weren't many Jews in the U.S. at the time. That Jew bitch was being pretty inviting to a country that didn't have many Jews in it. Also, I wonder if they tried to sell that shit overseas. Could anybody have really thought that they were going to be able to emigrate here and take their ease?

 

[cultsmasher]

Everything you learned about WWII was a lie? There was no war with Japan? Who did not kill millions of Chinese.And,my uncle was not wounded by a German mine in France ?My father did not help supply the Army and Marines in the South Pacific while in the US Coast Guard?

Hasta la vista,dude!

bluebird,
I was mainly speaking of the holocaust. War did happen. We just shouldn't have been involved in it.

 

[cultsmasher]

As I jam on to the sounds of Rammstein’s Reise Reise in the background...I am bemused by the spectacle before me. Keith, the estimated population of Boise is now only roughly 214k (so go suck my S&M ORGASMic head ) not 217k.

The wild wild web is a funny beast, looking at some boasting from just six months ago, it seems that even a HS dropout can master cut-n-paste:
http://vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=230878

A couple people came close, but no cigar. The only time I was wrong was when I accused the actress Melissa Joan Hart of dating a negro.

Who the fuck says ‘negro’ anymore’? Are thou sucking in a King James Time Warp? It’s just a jump to the left…

And WTF is “white patriotism”, coming from a guy that is about as WASP as one gets, as my mommy traced my bloodline back to 10-15 families of the Mayflower interfamily sexcapades…oh shit what is that very quiet noise….good Zeus it is the black helo dudes about to take me off to the FEMA MallWart camps…bye world…………………………………….

funinspace,
Using the word "negro" was all it took for me to get banned from one forum. What do you think would have happened if I used the word I would have preferred to use. You can probably guess what that was.

 

[skepticalbip]

Everything you learned about WWII was a lie? There was no war with Japan? Who did not kill millions of Chinese.And,my uncle was not wounded by a German mine in France ?My father did not help supply the Army and Marines in the South Pacific while in the US Coast Guard?

Hasta la vista,dude!

bluebird,
I was mainly speaking of the holocaust. War did happen. We just shouldn't have been involved in it.

Dude, Japan bombed Pearl Harbor sinking most of our Pacific fleet and Germany declared war meaning that they would be sinking our coastal shipping or even landing troops if they could and we didn't resist.

 

[cultsmasher]

Bodies tell tales. And the killer tell tales. Something of that magnitude could not be hidden. Which is why the informed world knows that the Nazis killed an estimated 11 million "undesirables" of which around 6 million were Jews.

I have something else that is incredible for you to look up. In your browser, search engine or whatever. It's called, "The Betrayal of the Cossacks." Then tell me more about your "greatest generation."

This response is more than 3 credits shy of a relevant response to anything in this thread. I have made no claims about the "greatest generation". We are discussing your ridiculous and undocumented claim that less than 300,000 Jews were killed by the Nazis.

laughingdog,
It is known that there were no gas chambers at Auschwitz or Buchenwald. So what does that have to say about the Jews who were supposedly gassed there. And if Jews weren't gassed there, it is highly unlikely that they were gassed anywhere. As for bodies telling tales, I have never hears of an autopsy that was done on any body that showed they were killed by gas. As for the "killers," the Allies tortured confessions out of the ones that they let live.

Next, I believe I brought up typing into your browser, "Esienhower's Holocaust." Just to show that the idea wasn't that far fetched, I brought up the brutality in, "The betrayal of the Cossacks." Next, I know you never made any reference to "the greatest generation." But if you support the U.S. involvement in WW II, there's a good chance that is how you view them.

 

[cultsmasher]

As you can see, the U.S. has many reasons to promote the idea of there having been a holocaust.

You might want to take this up with Germany. You may have heard of this country. It is the one that actually perpetrated the incident in question. It may have escaped your notice, but they are pretty well convinced that they did in fact round up millions of Jews, herd them into camps, and systematically murder them.


If there was one country on the planet that had a motivation for some Holocaust denying, it would be Germany.


But if you ask them, they'll say "yeah, totally fucking did that."

Ford,
Maybe it being against the law in Germany to question the holocaust has something to do with what you say. That is, to the degree that it may be true.

 

[cultsmasher]

'Debate' in that sentence is as ludicrous as 'accused' is in the other one you posted.

Why Would Somebody Lie By Saying The Holocaust Happened.

2. Jews control the movie industry. They may have even have had a lot of influence in raido broadcasting. This gave them a huge "soapbox" to stand on and spew their lies. And once lies are established, they are hard to go back on.

Hey, cultist, this is kind of a way that the Jews might have spread their lies.
It's not really a reason WHY they might have lied.

8. If the holocaust was ever disproven, Jews might again be persecuted.

Ah. Because after WWII there were no restricted clubs.
You need to revamp your posts, cultie.

Try having a point and sticking to it.

Keith&Co.
First, I write what I like. If you don't like it, don't read it. Next, the reason that the Jews control the movie industry is part of the reason WHY they would have told the lies they did. Restricted clubs doesn't have anything to do with anything. The point is that if the holocaust was even shown to be a hoax, it might cause some people to want to restrict their breathing. Or living in the U.S.

 

[Ford]

You might want to take this up with Germany. You may have heard of this country. It is the one that actually perpetrated the incident in question. It may have escaped your notice, but they are pretty well convinced that they did in fact round up millions of Jews, herd them into camps, and systematically murder them.


If there was one country on the planet that had a motivation for some Holocaust denying, it would be Germany.


But if you ask them, they'll say "yeah, totally fucking did that."

Ford,
Maybe it being against the law in Germany to question the holocaust has something to do with what you say. That is, to the degree that it may be true.

For 40 years it was perfectly legal to question the Holocaust in Germany. Well, West Germany at least. The law was put in place to combat the denial movement (similar to but more odious than a bowel movement) which really took off in the late 1970s.

But you didn't know that, either.

 

[cultsmasher]

5. The U.S. might lessen it's funding of Israel. A country that it already gave nuclear weapons to.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Israel steal nuclear technology from us?

credoconsolans,
That may be the kind of shit the U.S. tells Iran to keep them from getting nuclear weapons. But everybody knows we gave them the weapons. In 1960, there was a "theft" of highly enriched uranium that was used to help fule Israel's nuclear weapons program. Since then, another 6 tons has "gone missing." "Gone missing" my ass.

 

[fromderinside]

Just read your OP. Since there were no references included beyond type 'these keywords of my choice' I don't feel it is worth repeating.

Then, because I as a person who actually lived over a portion of Hitler's life, married one who lived her early life under German occupation in Italy, and had several uncles and cousins with whom I have had contact with who actually were there before, during, and after the Hitler era after I got past my shock of your bald claim checked to see whether you have any memory of those times.

Whoa. You don't even list your age. I have to presume you are probably even younger than my youngest son who died four years ago. IOW you are probably barely twenty. Thank you for posting your politics though.

All that said I feel compelled to test you a bit. So, as a researcher, I posted a heavily referenced early history of the Hitler era by William L Shirer, entitled "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich", published in 1960 (http://www.cristoraul.com/ENGLISH/r...tory/Shirer-TheRiseAndFallOfTheThirdReich.pdf ). I read it right after it was published, a very thorough 1100 page read. If you are interested enough you can get an unabridged version complete with full references and notes that is about 1300 pages although many of Shirer's references can be gleaned right from the body of the book. It was a good read during anti-gay times and it is a good read now even though many politically incorrect comments and aspersion are made by the author. He subscribed to the idea that Hitler was a unique event without precedent. We all know now that Hitler sorts of things are an ongoing human problem. So, you see I'm pretty primed.

However I am supposed to be a scholar so I include a review of Shirer's book by a preeminent political historian G D Rosenfeld "The Reception of William L Shirer's the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich in the United States and West Germany, 1960-1962", published in 1994. http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcuse/classes/201/articles/94RosenfeldShirerJCH.pdf

After you get through that preliminary stuff, read the story of the Warsaw Ghetto, "Mila 18", by Leon Uris another pretty through research kind of guy.

I was Born before the US entered WWII, Nuremberg, and German reconstruction, I then went to University where I ran afoul of a partisan holocaust denier who treated us to a bunch of tracts which contained few references and lots of flame throwing assertions. So there we have a history of sorts.

I suspect you will try to discount me as much as possible, possbily even ignore me. Just keep in mind your beliefs can only take you so far. After a while you'l need to have some knowledge and skills which usually require you come into contact with something other than like minded people. That's when you'll find you are not well served by being a just hater because you are mad.

I actually don't feel much sympathy for you because you don't care and you aren't interested. All you want to do is throw stuff.

Just in case you are not one of those I've given you some powerful reading and mind blowing stuff for you to wrap your still young mind around.

If you ever get the feeling someone is messing with you on these threads you are. Some of us enjoy poking helpless things, I don't happen to be one, but, I can see from the stuff you are bleating you're being played.

 

[cultsmasher]

Surprise factor zero. Holocaust deniers are generally people who want to see it continued.

However, you have the reasoning wrong here--it's not guilt, but rather that they realize how society views genocide and the history of the holocaust shows what can happen when they get their way.

Also, most people don't want to admit to being for genocide.

Why Would Somebody Lie By Saying The Holocaust Happened.

1. in 1933, a newspaper headline appeared that said, "Judea Declares War On Germany." As I quoted before, "In war, truth is the first casualty."

Judea wasn't a nation at that time, it couldn't declare war on Germany or anybody else.

2. Jews control the movie industry. They may have even have had a lot of influence in raido broadcasting. This gave them a huge "soapbox" to stand on and spew their lies. And once lies are established, they are hard to go back on.

Control the movie industry? I would think the movie industry would be more positive towards them if that were the case.

I haven't paid attention to radio in a long time, the current world press is certainly anti-Jewish. (Although in most cases I think this is simply an example of news organizations slanting the news in the direction the majority of their listeners want--and there are nearly 100x as many Muslims as Jews in the world.)

3. To take revenge on the Germans for having dared to deport the "chosen of GOD!!!"

Huh?

4. Jews received reparations for the whole "holocaust" thing. As far as I know, they're still being made. If the holocaust was ever shown to be a fraud, those payments would dry up. They might even have to pay back money that was paid.

Reparations?? No, what they have received is a return of stolen property. You can't return stolen property without it first being stolen.

5. The U.S. might lessen it's funding of Israel. A country that it already gave nuclear weapons to.

The holocaust was around long before there was any funding of Israel.

8. If the holocaust was ever disproven, Jews might again be persecuted.

And they aren't persecuted now??

9. National Socialism was economically sucessful. Capitalisn wasn't and isn't. To support "The American Way," it would be very helpful to discredit national socialism in any way possible.

The Holocaust was about Hitler, not National Socialism.

10. Stalin was the real monster. In the early 30's, he caused up to 10 million Ukrainians to starve to death. He didn't even need "death camps" to do it. Not to mention his many other atrocities. The holocaust and other things could be supported so that the U.S. doesn't look so bad for having supported Stalin.

If we even did support him (I'm not addressing this one way or the other) it's moot as people certainly don't realize it.

12. German National Socialism wasn't into the whole multiethnic society thing. But that was and increasingly is being shoved down American's throats. So for the U.S. to promote its multiethnic society, they had to discredit the German White Patriot National Socialist system. Etc.

Once again, you have your timelines messed up.

As you can see, the U.S. has many reasons to promote the idea of there having been a holocaust. It also has many reasons to go to whatever lengths are necessary to see that it is believed. What is that compared to the few people who seek out the truth for the truth's sake. But I support the truth. Because those who believe in a false history are doomed to suffer the same fate themselves.

Truth? Your words read like a fanatic. Fanatics don't search for the truth, they search for things that confirm what they have already decided is true.

Loren Pechtl,
I will reply to what is worth commenting on. Judea was a people at the time. Not a nation. It is like if Catholics declared war on somebody. There is no Catholic nation. Next, the movie industry is nothing but positive toward the Jewish people. But toward White people, the opposite is true. Just for one example out of zillions, ever see the movie "Pleasantville?" Aparently without the non-white influnce, White people would be living in a drab, repressed and colorless world. Again I say that even if the 6 million number were true, it wasn't nearly enough.

Though I'm no expert, Israel does receive reparations for the holocaust. Do you know what Japan pays for those who suffered at their hands? Nothing! Next, I never said that the U.S. funded Israel before there was an Israel. But there is an Israel now. And the U.S. sure as hell funds them. Next, Jews aren't persecuted in the U.S. As for muslim countries or whatever, that would be a different matter. Next, the U.S. was supporting a multiethnic society before we even received the statue of liberty. Why? Because capitalists like slaves and wage slaves. Next, your insults mean nothing to me. If you ever manage to find something I wrote that isn't true, be sure to tell me about it.

 

[cultsmasher]

This is not fanaticism, it's a psychosis, similar to any other inability to comprehend reality.

bronzeage,
You talk the talk. But do you walk the walk? Tell me anything I said that is untrue. We'll see who suffers from psychosis.

 

[laughing dog]

Some lies just lead to worse ends than others.

Just look at the case of Hitler and Germany for proof.

 

[cultsmasher]

People don't have to be deliberately lying to spread messages that aren't true.

Look at every religion throughout history. Almost all of them have contradictory messages so we know that at least a majority of them are spreading messages that aren't true. But are they lying? No. They are simply wrong. Believers were told a message and then didn't spend the time necessary to verify it. Perhaps because they were lazy or gullible or forced to, or because it was part of their culture, or part of their peer group.

Lots of people are wrong for countless reasons.

It only takes one liar with one twisted motive to spread a false message that attracts millions of believers.

Cultsmasher. Have you really done the research necessary to verify that your message isn't wrong? Can you explain and provide the evidence you collected in support of and against the attrocities the Nazis are accused of?

zorq,
All I have to do is to look at the world around me to see what is true or not. But as for the holocaust, I did look some things up. Like "camp money" people in Jewish internment camps were given to buy things instead of waiting for their turn in the gas chamber. I also looked up and found out that there was never any lampshade made out of Jew skin. I also looked up "The Haavara Agreement." Hitler was basically responsible for the state of Israel eventually being formed. Etc. etc. etc. So no. I'm not just pulling a lot of shit out of thin air. Or simply just buying into a crackpot conspiracy theory.

 

[laughing dog]

laughingdog,
It is known that there were no gas chambers at Auschwitz or Buchenwald.

That is not known. There were gas chambers at Auschwitz but not at Buchenwald.

So what does that have to say about the Jews who were supposedly gassed there. And if Jews weren't gassed there, it is highly unlikely that they were gassed anywhere. As for bodies telling tales, I have never hears of an autopsy that was done on any body that showed they were killed by gas. As for the "killers," the Allies tortured confessions out of the ones that they let live.

1000s of bodies were found in the extermination camps. There were plenty of witnesses as to the atrocities performed in the extermination and concentration camps.

Next, I believe I brought up typing into your browser, "Esienhower's Holocaust." Just to show that the idea wasn't that far fetched, I brought up the brutality in, "The betrayal of the Cossacks." Next, I know you never made any reference to "the greatest generation." But if you support the U.S. involvement in WW II, there's a good chance that is how you view them.

The US entered WWII because it was attacked. Since WWII occurred before I was born, my support or lack thereof is irrelevant. But ,yes, I think it was a good for the world for the US to enter WWII and to help defeat the Axis allies.

 

[cultsmasher]

Loren Pechtel,
You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. Have you ever seen any of those TV shows they have on about the Nazis or the holocaust? I know that it is absolutely incredible that such things should be shown in "The Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave." But it is all lying propaganda horseshit! They are lying right to your FACE! With apparent pride I might add. It's utterly disgusting!

It's only because this is the land of the free that people are permitted to speak falsehoods like this.

Take the lampshade made out of Jewish skin. It was PROVEN to be bullshit on a couple of occasions long ago. Also, in the documentary they have a Jew who investigated the holocaust. They SHOW him talkibng to a person at Auschwitz who ran the holocaust memorial museum there. That person TOLD him that the gas chamber there was made to look like a gas chamber after the war by the Russians. Etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

So, someone claimed it was human skin. That doesn't constitute proof.

This all brings up quite a paradox. I bet you feel pretty normal. But you are utterly brainwashed and delusional. So how can you be that way and still feel "normal." Need more proof? Go to your google browser and type in, "How many Jews were deported under The Haavara Agreement." A couple websites down, you will find that question basically asked. It is hosted by "Yahoo, answers." In it, they have what they call, "The Best Answer." The person who wrote it said that 60 to 70% of German Jews were deported to Palestine. Clearly, Hitler's goal was to deport Jews. Not exterminate them. How many of those propaganda TV shows have you seen that even mentioned the haavara agreement.

Sorry, my parents were both psychologists (teaching and limited practice)--it's going to be pretty hard to brainwash me without my recognizing what's up. I've been exposed to actual brainwashing once, I watched just about everyone around me fall for it hook, line and sinker but it was totally obvious to me what was going on. I later met one other who also saw through it--they likewise came from a background of a close relative who was a psychologist.

As for that question--it seriously fails to hit the mark. From what I'm seeing the answer is at least in the ballpark but so what? There were 500k Jews in Germany before it all started, if 2/3 of them got out before the genocide that says nothing about the 5M+ outside Germany who didn't flee in time.

Loren Pechtel,
Apparently you have fallen victim to brainwashing. Because you believe the holocaust is real. Next, if Hitler wasn't interested in exterminating Jews inside Germany, what makes you think he was interested in exterminating them outside of Germany. Not to say that he didn't likely have many killed. But that clearly was never his aim. And if war hadn't happened with the West, those who were killed would have probably been deported instead.

 

[credoconsolans]

What I find particularly ironic about such conspiracy theorists is that, although they believe we have all been lied to, they accept without question any statement contradicting the official record. Don't they even think to question the source of their new information, if that source itself may be a conspiracy with ulterior motives?

Same thing with Christians. I point out several history books and records which dispute the Bible, they ask, without the slightest hint of irony, "Did you ever think whoever wrote those history books was trying to manipulate you with their agenda?"

When I turn the question back on them, with the exact same wording except that it's the bible, they become indignant. The writers of the bible couldn't possibly have had any motive other than telling the truth about the One True God ^tm.

Can't do anything with such people. The 9/11 conspiracy theories about the Twin Towers or the WTc 7/9 or whatever being a controlled demolition can be done away with with one reference - "go to a demolition company website and look at all the carefully planned, delicately balanced work they have to do to weaken a building before they can demolish it. Some of it includes gutting the building and partially cutting through support pillars..."

I post this every single time a "It's obvious 9/11 was a controlled demolition of WTC and was an inside job" conspiracy theory discussion begins.

EVERY SINGLE CONSPIRACY NUT avoids my post, never addresses it and goes on to rant for 27 more pages about smoke, and explosions survivors heard, men in black seen, etc. etc.

They're just going to ignore facts.

 

[cultsmasher]

Keith&Co,
Copies of my post? What in the hell are you takling about. I found them long before I ever mentioned them anywhere. Admittedly, I don't read or speak German. I had to take the word of the people who posted the documents who say that they show the "concentration camp" deaths of Jews to only have been about 271,000. Not 6 million. Next, is the population of Paraguay or Bosie 271,000? Am I missing something?

Does it occur to you that we aren't sheep? We actually are prone to checking claims. You gave us a specific phrase to type into Google--and everything that comes up is your post or variations on it. No actual red cross documents. Removing the quotes produces a greater variety of variations on it but no documents down to the point that the hits were obviously spurious.

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Eyewitness testimony is the lowest rank of evidence.

And it's even lower rank when you can't be sure that your "eyewitness" really is a witness at all. It's easy enough for a crackpot to trot out a fake witness for a documentary.

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As an aside, I have met some survivors of those camps and liberators of those camps. I seriously doubt they are the liars or fakers you are implicitly claiming.

ETA: this site (http://www.nationalww2museum.org/lea...holocaust.html) has the estimated lower and upper bounds of Jews killed by the Nazis by nationality. In addition, another 5 million non-Jews (homosexuals, Roma, political prisoners, Communists and other "undesirables") died in concentration and extermination camps.

Yeah, thinking about it my mother's college roommate also knew some survivors. It's way too late to ask her for details, though.

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I don't know anything about Dutch Jews. Where they might have gone or where they might have ended up. But if Hitler didn't exterminate most of the German Jews, I doubt if he did the so with the Dutch Jews. There is only one thing I do know. That whatever you may have learned about WW II is a lie. For example, there is what I was telling somebody else around here. Between 1915 and 1939, there were several articles that appeared in various newspapers. They talked about something bad happening to 6 million Jews. I guess if a lie works, stick with it.

In the documentary I mentioned, they talked about a couple people who did tests for traces of Zyklon B in the gas chambers of Auschwitz. None was found. But in rooms that were known to have used Zyklon B to disinfect clothing, the readings went right off the chart. Another "death camp" where gas was never used was Buchenwald. If gas wan't used to kill Jews in those places, it is highly unlikely that it was used anywhere to exterminate hordes of Jews.

And you consider yourself qualified to argue this issue???

The vast majority of Jews that Hitler killed weren't German in the first place! If you don't know what happened to non-German Jews you certainly don't know he didn't kill 6M Jews.

Loren Pechtel,
I don't know why you couldn't find the old Red Cross documents. I could. Try typing into your browser, "Old Red Cross documents that say only 271,000 Jews died in concentration camps." Somewhere on the first page, there should be a website that shows them. Though they are in German. Which I don't read or speak. Though I can see the numbers. I have to take their word for it that they are saying that is how many Jews died.

Next, in the documentary they show a couple people who were supposedly IN concentration camps saying that conditions in them weren't as bad as they are generally believed to have been. Maybe they were actors. Maybe the swimming pools they showed pictures od in some internment camps were fake. Maybe the pictures of "camp money" Jews were given to buy things with were fake. Maybe it is all bullshit. The best I can do is weigh the evidence through logic and decide what is true and isn't. That has led me to the conclusion that the holocaust was largely a fraud.

Next, there is one thing I an more than qualified to say. Though I will be banned for writing the threads in support of it. Which is that even if 6 million Jews were killed, it wasn't nearly enough.