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Ex-wife paying spousal support does not want her lottery-winning exhusband back or his money

Somehow I doubt that you know more than millions of happily married men.

The facts and statistics say otherwise.

1. It is a fact 1/2 all marriage ends in divorce. Yes, there are men who jumped out of an airplane with a parachute that actually opened and they survived and are happy. Does that mean all men should jump out of an airplane with a 50% might work parachute? I think not.
I don't know... depends on who is on the plane.

2. For those 1 in 8 men who think they are happy in marriage because their parachute opened. But are really raising some other guys kid without knowing it. Their wife screwed some guy they liked better but gave them the bill for the kid. You think they are happy?
The ignorance is bliss.

3. For the average guy it is just better not to get married at all...because there is absolutely nothing in it for the guy. Even if he wants kids, would be better not to get married and pay the child support. That way there is more chance to know the kid is really his.
What about the third standard deviation type of guy?

Yes there arel probably be happy men out there who got married. But just because you survived a fall from an airplane with bad odds did not make it a smart thing to do.
True, there are men out there that weren't happy when they were married, but there seems to be quite a few disgruntled men who never even got married!
 
Somehow I doubt that you know more than millions of happily married men.

The facts and statistics say otherwise.
No, they do not.
1. It is a fact 1/2 all marriage ends in divorce.
It is not a fact that 1/2 of all marriages end in divorce. It is a fact that about 1/2 of marriages in the US end in divorce. Which means that about 1/2 don't. Which means there are still millions of US men who disagree with your opinion.
Yes, there are men who jumped out of an airplane with a parachute that actually opened and they survived and are happy. Does that mean all men should jump out of an airplane with a 50% might work parachute? I think not.
I would agree with your argument if I accepted your comparison of marriage to jumping out of a plane with a faulty parachute as valid. Unfortunately, I think it is a ridiculous analogy, since marriage is not usually fatal nor is it usually done because there is not other choice but dying.
2. For those 1 in 8 men who think they are happy in marriage because their parachute opened. Yet they are really raising some other guys kid without knowing it. Their wife screwed some guy they liked better and gave them the bill for the kid. You think they are happy? Maybe now but definitely not later!
First, the one in eight number is unsubstantiated. Second, I think you vastly over-estimate your ability to project how these men will feel.
3. For the average guy it is just better not to get married at all...because there is absolutely nothing in it for the guy.
And yet, millions of men get and stay married. Apparently they have not reached your level of evolution to understand that marriage is only about having a reliable and receptive human respository for one's sperm now and then.
Even if he wants kids, would be better not to get married and then just pay the child support. Not being married actually affords more opportunity to know the kid is really his.
That is logically untrue. Married men can get paternity tests.
 
Somehow I doubt that you know more than millions of happily married men.

The facts and statistics say otherwise.

1. It is a fact 1/2 all marriage ends in divorce. Yes, there are men who jumped out of an airplane with a parachute that actually opened and they survived and are happy. Does that mean all men should jump out of an airplane with a 50% might work parachute? I think not.

2. For those 1 in 8 men who think they are happy in marriage because their parachute opened. Yet they are really raising some other guys kid without knowing it. Their wife screwed some guy they liked better and gave them the bill for the kid. You think they are happy? Maybe now but definitely not later!

3. For the average guy it is just better not to get married at all...because there is absolutely nothing in it for the guy. Even if he wants kids, would be better not to get married and then just pay the child support. Not being married actually affords more opportunity to know the kid is really his.

Yes there are probably some happy and stupid beta men out there who got married. They might have married an honorable woman. They might have won the 50% and then 1 in 8 lottery. But just because you survived a fall from an airplane with bad odds did not make it a smart thing to do.

I am certain that everybody reading this thread and any other threads you post in will agree that you, as an individual, are much better off never getting married.

I hope you stick with that resolution. In fact, I hope that your concerns about being blamed for fathering a child who isn't your genetic offspring keeps you from ever having sex with a woman. It's really the only way to be sure you won't be caught up in some terrible slut scheme.
 
It's too bad that some of our posters don't look up the latest statistics before they start saying shit!

Divorce rates have been dropping.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-25/millennials-are-causing-the-u-s-divorce-rate-to-plummet

New data show younger couples are approaching relationships very differently from baby boomers, who married young, divorced, remarried and so on. Generation X and especially millennials are being pickier about who they marry, tying the knot at older ages when education, careers and finances are on track. The result is a U.S. divorce rate that dropped 18 percent from 2008 to 2016, according to an analysis by University of Maryland sociology professor Philip Cohen.

Demographers already knew the divorce rate was falling, even if the average American didn’t. Their question, however, was why? And what do current trends mean for the marital prospects of today’s newlyweds?

I am a boomer. I met my first husband when I was 19. We married at 20. The marriage was a disaster, partially because we were poor, and he was drafted during the Viet Nam War, two weeks after our son was born. But, it also failed because he never showed me any respect or acted like he cared at all for me. We stuck it out for 9 years and then I couldn't take it anymore. We were both relieved to end the marriage. He's on his third marriage now, but from what my son has said, it sounds like the wife is getting treated about like I did. Poor woman.

I met my current husband when I was 30. We dated for two years and lived together for a year before we married. We were both working and we had enough income to live a comfortable life. We have been married for about 38 years and we are still madly in love with each other. We are highly compatible and enjoy being together most of the day since we are now both retired.

The above is fairly common, when people get to know each other better before they marry and when they are more mature and better judges of character before they marry. Marriages are also often more successful when a couple is financially secure.

Plus, those who divorce have a rather high rate of remarriage, so there must be something about marriage that a large percentage of people like. It's not for everyone so please don't get married if that's not what suits you, but just because your marriage failed or you're not monogamous etc., don't make generalizations about the rest of us. There is no reason to be bitter just because you failed at something.

Now, going back to the OP topic. The fact is that women are not receiving alimony anywhere near the rates that they did in past decades. This has changed greatly over the years, for several reasons. Do your own DD if you didn't like my link.

Plus, did anyone notice from the article that I linked earlier, that there are currently only 400,000 people in the US who receive alimony? That's a pretty low number considering the population, don't ya think?
 
Plus, did anyone notice from the article that I linked earlier, that there are currently only 400,000 people in the US who receive alimony? That's a pretty low number considering the population, don't ya think?
Yeah, but that means over 300,000 sluts and lazy ass women are getting state sanctioned undeserved monies from overburdened and defrauded men.
 
People are getting married later, and many are not getting married at all. Some would call that a crisis. I don't see it as a problem. I haven't and won't get married. The only time (early) in my life when I considered it, it wasn't legal where the person I may have married lived (gay marriage). I'm now glad I didn't get married to him because the relationship eventually fell apart and we both moved on with no big fuss. One of my sisters also hasn't gotten married. She's been monogamous with the same man for 12 years now. I don't see the problem.
 
People are getting married later, and many are not getting married at all. Some would call that a crisis. I don't see it as a problem. I haven't and won't get married. The only time (early) in my life when I considered it, it wasn't legal where the person I may have married lived (gay marriage). I'm now glad I didn't get married to him because the relationship eventually fell apart and we both moved on with no big fuss. One of my sisters also hasn't gotten married. She's been monogamous with the same man for 12 years now. I don't see the problem.

A lot depends on what you want out of life. I think marriage is a big benefit if you want to have children. I also think that the way society is structured, marriage has significant financial benefits. My education and career were interrupted multiple times in order to accommodate my husband's career. Children also figured into the interruptions but not nearly to the extent that relocating and starting over a couple of times did for me (he was able to maintain the same career). Because of his career choice, he is the one with the large retirement fund. My employer switched how it provides/helps employees provide for retirement very significantly about 5 years ago. Fortunately, I was vested in the old plan and will have some pension--not much, but some. The newer employees will have to rely on their 401/403 with a piss poor match from the employer. But in the event that my husband predeceases me, I will still have his retirement fund. I am not sure that if we divorced, I'd be allowed by the courts to walk away without half of that fund as it was entirely accumulated during our marriage.

For my husband, marriage has been a big plus, financially. He was able to enjoy the children he very much wanted and still pursue his career to whatever extent he wished, secure in the knowledge that his spouse would relocate when he wanted/needed to, manage the home and children and other family obligations, and work whatever job she could find that didn't interfere with his work or hobbies whenever there was a need. Plus, he got the benefit of being seen as stable and in a position to want to commit to a job because he was married and had children. This works the opposite way for women.

We have been able to cover each other through health insurance via our employers, resulting in having very small medical bills, even through cancer surgery. Note: I think everybody should have the same level (or better but ours has been great) of medical coverage/care regardless of employment or economic or relationship or health status. No exceptions. But in the reality we live in, marriage has been a financial boon in part because we've been 'double covered' through our employer based health coverage.

If one partner has a serious medical issue, there is no negotiation, no paperwork to fill out, no struggles to be able to make appropriate health care decisions and even manage finances while the other is incapacitated. There are no inheritance issues for most people. These aren't issues that young people think about very much, but they can be very important.

We can afford a nicer home/nicer stuff than either of us would be able to afford alone. Especially me, since he is the higher earner.

Today, every younger couple I can think of is in a much better place by being coupled up than if they were single, financially speaking. A number of them I knew before being 'coupled' through a variety of scenarios involving living on their own or with room mate(s). This is true of those who are married and those who are not. It's also true whether or not there are children. And yeah, some couples are raising a family that includes at least one child whose parent is someone other than the couple.

I'm speaking only of financial benefits and practical. The benefits of being in a stable, committed relationship with the right person transcend the financial or practical.
 
You really shouldn't talk about yourself like that. I don't think you are a moron... though "rabid dogma" probably fits.

As I said, you seem to be trying to drag me into some strawman argument that has zero to do with anything I have said in this thread.
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So then you just admitted that in a thread to an OP about bias in alimony decisions, you posted a reply that has zero logical relevance to whether there is a bias in such decisions.

Your incapacity to understand logical relevance is not my fault.

Dude, your inability to make any logical sense or to address anything I have said in this thread is not my fault. :hysterical:

Seriously... don't @ me anymore. Any further comment from you to me will simply be confirmation that your only intent is to harass rather than converse.
 
Plus, did anyone notice from the article that I linked earlier, that there are currently only 400,000 people in the US who receive alimony? That's a pretty low number considering the population, don't ya think?

I started to cite this fact from a different source in a reply to Derec, but I deleted the post because... why bother. :cool:

But, I do think it is one of the most important facts in this thread. There are approximately 2.5 million divorces per year in the U.S., yet there are only approximately 400,000 people TOTAL receiving alimony. And of those 400,000, a small but growing percentage are men. This is because women are slowly inching towards income parity; and it is slowly becoming socially acceptable for men to be the stay-at-home parent.

And no matter how much certainly people here want to pretend otherwise in order to maintain their anti-women hatred, divorce laws are gender-neutral. Any disparities we see are due to inequities and disparities in how much women are paid and social expectations that men must be the bread-winners while women must be the stay-at-home parent - which is unfair to BOTH people.

Another fact for the factless, alimony is rarely "forever" anymore. It is typically for a short period of time based on the length of the marriage and other factors.
 
I am a boomer. I met my first husband when I was 19. We married at 20. The marriage was a disaster, partially because we were poor, and he was drafted during the Viet Nam War, two weeks after our son was born. But, it also failed because he never showed me any respect or acted like he cared at all for me. We stuck it out for 9 years and then I couldn't take it anymore. We were both relieved to end the marriage. He's on his third marriage now, but from what my son has said, it sounds like the wife is getting treated about like I did. Poor woman.

I met my current husband when I was 30. We dated for two years and lived together for a year before we married. We were both working and we had enough income to live a comfortable life. We have been married for about 38 years and we are still madly in love with each other. We are highly compatible and enjoy being together most of the day since we are now both retired.
It sounds like you are around 10 years older than I am. But other than that, your married life followed a very similar path to mine. I was married 8 years to my first wife and am still successfully married 28 years to my current wife. The second marriage fortunately turned out much better than the first as yours did.

Plus, did anyone notice from the article that I linked earlier, that there are currently only 400,000 people in the US who receive alimony?
The state of Missouri calls it maintenace instead of alimony. I know because I have paid plenty of it. And I paid it even though my first wife was worth far more than I was when we married in 1980. And I paid it even though we had a prenuptial agreement (at her request)

Furthermore, I still continue paying my ex wife $1000/ mo. child support for my 36 year old son to this day because he is mildly autistic. A son who I hope is my real son but have not ever found out with a DNA test. Its something I want to know and get done though before I die.

But whether they call it alimony or maintenance, vaginamony would be a far more accurate description then alimony anyway. Since it always goes to the person with a vagina!
 
If it is such a duh, why are there so many vehement accusations that alimony/spousal support is biased against men?

Because it really hurts. Often, men will go from living in a house to a small apartment because that's all they can afford. They see a significant portion of their paycheck going to the ex and understandably feel screwed. However, what they'll often forget to mention is that the order is temporary due to a step down order/Gavron warning (in California) where that amount is not permanent, but rather will decrease over time. Or part of what they're paying for is for the kids to remain in the family home until a certain age. Then, the home is to be sold and the equity distributed according to an agreed upon formula that results in an even share. Still though, going from living a certain lifestyle and seeing yourself as a homeowner, successful Whatever, etc. is pretty jarring and it takes a while to get over. Some never get over it.

People going through dissolution are highly emotional. You can lay the numbers out for them, tell them why the numbers say what they do, advise them how to behave and how to communicate, etc. and it still won't matter to them. They'll believe they got screwed and that the laws are unfairly biased, blahblahblah.

But California is a community property state, and our laws are pretty tight and well set, which makes a majority of matters relatively predictable. I can almost always know just how a case is going to go and what the general outcome is going to be with just a half hour conversation with a prospective client. It's different in equitable distribution states though. From what I understand, you can get pretty wide swings in outcomes depending on the judge. Some states still have jury trials for family law matters (e.g. Georgia). What a salacious circus those trials must be.

Anyway, I would imagine that people get screwed in equitable distribution states on a much more frequent basis than in community property states.

A couple things in this thread I've noticed and that I'll briefly comment on.

1. You can't just appeal a case if you don't like the outcome. It's expensive, complicated, time consuming, and generally not worth it and generally won't result in the outcome you want. You can try, but an appellate court will tell you to pound sand if your issue isn't worthwhile--and in family law, the vast, overwhelming majority of issues are not going to be viable on appeal.
2. Women are just as evil as men when it comes to this shit. The only serious marital fraud case where the matter was litigated at trial that I've worked on so far involved Wife committing fraud in order to steal the family home from Husband. This one may end up in a personal injury suit involving Wells Fargo, but that's up in the air right now.
3. EVERYONE LOSES IN DIVORCE. Well, unless you're Jeff Bezos's wife. Outside of rare situations like that, there are few winners in dissolution matters. There are clear cut winners when a spouse is made to pay back child or spousal support, or when a parent wants to move away with the kids and succeeds, or conversely, when the opposing parent prevents the move from happening. But in an initial dissolution, both sides are gonna lose something. Ideally, the losses are equitable.
4. Thinking about a Do It Yourself divorce? Don't, unless you have no kids, few to no assets, and your debt is such that you can handle it on your own if your ex flakes on the agreement.
 
I would like to see data on this. Because I wonder if such a raw proportion takes into account when the alimony award was made and if the woman was employed at the time.

This pretty much comes down to duh!

It's far more likely that she stays home and raises the kids than he does and these days that's the usual situation that causes an alimony award.
If it is such a duh, why are there so many vehement accusations that alimony/spousal support is biased against men?

Same as all the allegations of discrimination against women because they choose the mommy track.
 
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