Fake Gay Marriage Website and SCOTUS Ruling

[Loren Pechtel]

And of course, your response is "Well, they just have to go somewhere else, no biggie." That's you LITERALLY ENDORSING SEPARATE BUT EQUAL.

Separate but equal - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The reality is the photographer who tried it would find their business seriously hurt.

See post 449 below where C/J/fish is overtly called a bigot by another poster.

Disagree--I do not see that post as calling him a bigot, but rather saying he's hypersensitive to supposed bigotry.

 

[Toni]

What does "curating" photographs mean?

Professional photographers always have shot far more than they ever used. Digital cameras drive the per-click cost to nearly zero and have only amplified this trend. I occasionally post in the wildlife photography thread--but I typically post around 1% of the wildlife shots I take. When using high-end cameras on action shots these days you very often simply rapid fire to the limits of your camera's capability and see what's best.

Plus cropping, filtering, and otherwise enhancing photos as well as selecting the right photo to convey the right ‘feel’ or idea.

 

[Toni]

I know it's neither here nor there... But don't you find a bit of irony in the fact that it's two women and a gay man - all elements of those "protected classes" arguing that people should not be compelled to express views that are in opposition to their beliefs... while all of us are being told what we ought to believe by a group that is almost exclusively heterosexual white men?

How do you know other people's sexual orientation? On-line gaydar?

If you have the fields under a person's name turned on (I think they're still switchable in this version of the software) TomC's orientation is obvious.

There is more than one non-heterosexual person on this site and I believe more than one posting in this thread. Sometimes posters reveal their gender and/or sexual orientation and even marital status, kids, pets, etc. Some of us ‘know’ each other from years of posting…

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Michigan Salon Owner Refuses to Serve LGBTQ+ Community Because of ‘Pedophiles’

She says because she believes that the “+” indicates “pedophiles,” she’s refusing to serve the “TQ+” community.

www.advocate.com

Some members of the LGBTQ+ community have been banned from a hair salon in Michigan in a breathtaking display of ignorance and bigotry.

The owner of Studio 8 Hair Lab, Christine Geiger, said in a Facebook post that she is exercising her right to free speech by refusing specific customers her services. She also compared gender-diverse people to animals, the Kansas City Star reports.

“If a human identifies as anything other than a man/woman, please seek services at a local pet groomer,” urged the hair salon owner. “You are not welcome at this salon. Period.”

The salon’s Facebook page was later deleted, and its Instagram profile was set to private. A description of the business on Instagram says it is “A private CONSERVATIVE business that does not cater to woke ideologies.”

A few days earlier, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled 6-3 that a web designer was protected under the First Amendment from building a website for same-sex marriages if she refused to do so based on her beliefs.

“We are not bound to any oaths as realtors are regarding discrimination,” Geiger’s post on the salon’s page noted.

Hairstyling is normally not creative.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You are underestimating the artistry that you can request from restaurant employees.
Consider these pizzas made by request.

11 "Special Instructions" For Pizza Delivery Places

<b>Many pizza delivery chains now let you include "special instructions" when you place an order online and apparently they'll adhere to the instructions no matter how inane they seem.</b> I admire their commitment, but I'm really curious how far the envelope can be pushed before they'll stop...

www.buzzfeed.com

"Draw a unicorn on the box"
"Cut into isosceles triangles"
"Cut into a pentagram"

Any business interested in discriminating now has a trivial out. Make the "special instructions" portion of the menu mandatory in order to do business with them and insist on some other personal information before an order will be processed.

You can ask subway for "extra big dick" and they can choose whether to give you "extra big dick" as they interpret it through their creative vision.

SHOCKING PHOTOS: Subway Worker Puts His Penis On Bread, Another Freezes Urine At Work

SHOCKING PHOTOS: Subway Worker Puts His Penis On Bread, Another Freezes Urine At Work

www.huffpost.com

The only one of these that's remotely creative is draw a unicorn.

And if you have the misfortune to get an employee who considers unicorns satanic, well, you get a horse on your pizza instead. You still get your pizza, though.

 

[Toni]

The resurgence of segregation would inevitably reignite tensions reminiscent of those that precipitated the Civil War. On one hand, you'd have factions advocating for secession from the Union, motivated by racial prejudices. On the other hand, there would be staunch Union supporters willing to make uncomfortable compromises with these groups to maintain unity. Such a situation could provoke a severe and dangerous societal divide.

It is truly astounding to witness the myopia of those willing to permit religion - often used as a pretext for discrimination against all protected classes, including the disabled under the assumption of 'sin' - to invoke First Amendment protections not just against government action, but against fellow citizens as well. When the gravity of such actions finally dawns upon you, I hope it's not moments before an irreversible tragedy befalls you. By then it would have been too late for me as well.

I think all of that is happening right now. Why else would someone like Donald Trump and his Jan. 6 insurrection get so much traction in certain quarters? Why are Texas and Florida trying to outdo each other to return to 1950?

All of that aside, the federal government and SCOTUS and state governments have made it clear that businesses are not allowed to discriminate on the basis of race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, disability, etc. in most instances. The Civil Rights Acts of 1964 and 1968.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

When a builder designs and constructs a home, they are essentially creating a work of art. They are using their creativity to shape the space and to create a home that is both functional and aesthetically pleasing. I suppose a General Contracting company with a religious owner can refuse to build a house for a client based on their religious beliefs.

You're mixing up client vs product.

There's nobody here saying they should be able to discriminate based on the client.

We are saying they should be free to refuse to build a satanic temple, but shouldn't be free to refuse to sell to satanists that want an ordinary house.

 

[Toni]

When a builder designs and constructs a home, they are essentially creating a work of art. They are using their creativity to shape the space and to create a home that is both functional and aesthetically pleasing. I suppose a General Contracting company with a religious owner can refuse to build a house for a client based on their religious beliefs.

Probably not. Guarantees of fair housing are already established law.

 

[CosmicJellyfish]

Michigan Salon Owner Refuses to Serve LGBTQ+ Community Because of ‘Pedophiles’

She says because she believes that the “+” indicates “pedophiles,” she’s refusing to serve the “TQ+” community.

www.advocate.com

Some members of the LGBTQ+ community have been banned from a hair salon in Michigan in a breathtaking display of ignorance and bigotry.

The owner of Studio 8 Hair Lab, Christine Geiger, said in a Facebook post that she is exercising her right to free speech by refusing specific customers her services. She also compared gender-diverse people to animals, the Kansas City Star reports.

“If a human identifies as anything other than a man/woman, please seek services at a local pet groomer,” urged the hair salon owner. “You are not welcome at this salon. Period.”

The salon’s Facebook page was later deleted, and its Instagram profile was set to private. A description of the business on Instagram says it is “A private CONSERVATIVE business that does not cater to woke ideologies.”

A few days earlier, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled 6-3 that a web designer was protected under the First Amendment from building a website for same-sex marriages if she refused to do so based on her beliefs.

“We are not bound to any oaths as realtors are regarding discrimination,” Geiger’s post on the salon’s page noted.

Hairstyling is normally not creative.

Tell that to the Michigan salon owner.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And yes, even if they eventually find someone willing to photograph them, it's still segregation.

If? Eventually?
I suppose that if you’re a black person in a lily white area full of ignorants - or vice versa - it’s possible that your pursuit of a willing photographer could be frustrated. If it was food, your point would seem pretty compelling. But in your example any segregation involved is initiated and enforced by individuals, to the trivial outcome of delaying the critical 125th of a second,

But this won't be limited to photography and wedding websites. We've already seen a salon get in on the action. Do you really think we've seen the end of this shit?

We've seen a salon try. That doesn't mean they'll end up prevailing.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Ok, so just be honest and say that you're ok with a little bit of segregation.

I believe that in most every scenario trying to stomp out 100% of a bad thing is bad for society, the stomping causes higher costs than not getting 100%.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

What does "curating" photographs mean?

Professional photographers always have shot far more than they ever used. Digital cameras drive the per-click cost to nearly zero and have only amplified this trend. I occasionally post in the wildlife photography thread--but I typically post around 1% of the wildlife shots I take. When using high-end cameras on action shots these days you very often simply rapid fire to the limits of your camera's capability and see what's best.

Plus cropping, filtering, and otherwise enhancing photos as well as selecting the right photo to convey the right ‘feel’ or idea.

Yeah, I was in a hurry last night and later realized I forgot about all the stuff they might do with photoshop.

(And, yes, professional photos will be run through photoshop or the like. At a minimum you'll want to remove the known distortions of your lens. Yes--your camera lens isn't perfect, the light isn't 100% uniform, the image isn't 100% square. It's inherent in the lens from the factory, even stuff like Lightroom is capable of applying corrections for your lens.)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I know it's neither here nor there... But don't you find a bit of irony in the fact that it's two women and a gay man - all elements of those "protected classes" arguing that people should not be compelled to express views that are in opposition to their beliefs... while all of us are being told what we ought to believe by a group that is almost exclusively heterosexual white men?

How do you know other people's sexual orientation? On-line gaydar?

If you have the fields under a person's name turned on (I think they're still switchable in this version of the software) TomC's orientation is obvious.

There is more than one non-heterosexual person on this site and I believe more than one posting in this thread. Sometimes posters reveal their gender and/or sexual orientation and even marital status, kids, pets, etc. Some of us ‘know’ each other from years of posting…

Note that it says "two women and a gay man"--that does not address anyone else participating in the thread. The rest of it is "almost"--that doesn't mean they're 100% white, 100% heterosexual or 100% men.

 

[CosmicJellyfish]

And yes, even if they eventually find someone willing to photograph them, it's still segregation.

If? Eventually?
I suppose that if you’re a black person in a lily white area full of ignorants - or vice versa - it’s possible that your pursuit of a willing photographer could be frustrated. If it was food, your point would seem pretty compelling. But in your example any segregation involved is initiated and enforced by individuals, to the trivial outcome of delaying the critical 125th of a second,

But this won't be limited to photography and wedding websites. We've already seen a salon get in on the action. Do you really think we've seen the end of this shit?

We've seen a salon try. That doesn't mean they'll end up prevailing.

We've seen the salon do. They have yet to be taken to court. There will be a lot more of this type of discrimination, and most won't be challenged in court; they'll just do it and get away with it.

 

[CosmicJellyfish]

Ok, so just be honest and say that you're ok with a little bit of segregation.

I believe that in most every scenario trying to stomp out 100% of a bad thing is bad for society, the stomping causes higher costs than not getting 100%.

What else should we allow to be done to lgbt people? Child molestation? Spousal abuse? Physical assault? Murder?

 

[CosmicJellyfish]

When a builder designs and constructs a home, they are essentially creating a work of art. They are using their creativity to shape the space and to create a home that is both functional and aesthetically pleasing. I suppose a General Contracting company with a religious owner can refuse to build a house for a client based on their religious beliefs.

You're mixing up client vs product.

There's nobody here saying they should be able to discriminate based on the client.

We are saying they should be free to refuse to build a satanic temple, but shouldn't be free to refuse to sell to satanists that want an ordinary house.

People who oppose the SCOTUS ruling:

You're mixing up client vs product.

There's nobody here saying they should be able to discriminate based on the client.

We are saying they should be free to refuse to build a satanic temple website that has a pro-lgbt message, but shouldn't be free to refuse to sell to satanists a same-sex couple that want an ordinary house wedding website.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I've seen enough wedding websites to know that it is NOT cut and paste. It's curating photographs. It's selecting font. It's selecting poetry or music (original or otherwise), it's guiding the customers to make tasteful selections that go with their entire theme. There's a LOT to it, if it's done well.

If it were that easy, people would just use an online template and create their own. Some people do and do it well! Others? Not.

What does "curating" photographs mean?

Selecting which photos (or portions of photos) to use for a specific use.

Note: wedding planners, and I suspect people who design wedding websites for couples very often work with a specific photographer or set of photographers and when possible, recommend a specific photographer to work with a specific kind of couple: Someone who likes working with animals for the couple whose dog will be ringbearer, for example. There will also be discussions of what kind of 'feel' they want to convey, and select photos, clothing, hair, location, etc. for that purpose.

*A friend is a wedding planner. That's how I know some of this stuff.

So, a pretentious word for selecting.

"Curating" covers a lot more than just selecting.

Think of museum curator.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Ok, so just be honest and say that you're ok with a little bit of segregation.

I believe that in most every scenario trying to stomp out 100% of a bad thing is bad for society, the stomping causes higher costs than not getting 100%.

What else should we allow to be done to lgbt people? Child molestation? Spousal abuse? Physical assault? Murder?

How about addressing the point? The cost of driving bad behavior to zero is higher than the cost of a small amount of bad behavior.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

People who oppose the SCOTUS ruling:

You're mixing up client vs product.

There's nobody here saying they should be able to discriminate based on the client.

We are saying they should be free to refuse to build a satanic temple website that has a pro-lgbt message, but shouldn't be free to refuse to sell to satanists a same-sex couple that want an ordinary house wedding website.

The problem here is that you assume there is no distinction when there is one.

 

[CosmicJellyfish]

When a builder designs and constructs a home, they are essentially creating a work of art. They are using their creativity to shape the space and to create a home that is both functional and aesthetically pleasing. I suppose a General Contracting company with a religious owner can refuse to build a house for a client based on their religious beliefs.

Probably not. Guarantees of fair housing are already established law.

Yeah, no shit. Guarantees of equal protection in public accomodations were already established law. How's that going?