Fat-shaming, fat acceptance, and 'body diversity'.

[AthenaAwakened]

If the media can not change minds, why is being an avowed racist a bad thing in the south? Why can't you smoke in bars anymore? To say that media can't change minds would be akin to saying that introduction of information cannot change minds.

Is that true? Once someone thinks something, they can never change their minds, never be convinced of something else?

As Dr. Zoidberg said earlier, our sexual preferences are, to a large degree rooted in our biology and genes. You seem to think that men can (and should) be re-trained to lust after obese women. Should we expect women to be trained to lust after short men? This video seems to say that "it ain't gonna happen". At least with obesity there is some glimmer of hope that an obese person can be made thin. No short adult male has any hope whatsoever of becoming tall.



And as the guy at the end of the video says, "Life ain't fair":

where have I said anything about training men to lust after obese women? Where have said anything about lust? Where have I singled out obese women? I have talk about accepting fat for what it is and not using fat to judge people. I have also said that not everyone agree on what is attractive and what a person thinks is attractive can change.

Show me where I said different.

 

[Toni]

If the media can not change minds, why is being an avowed racist a bad thing in the south? Why can't you smoke in bars anymore? To say that media can't change minds would be akin to saying that introduction of information cannot change minds.

Is that true? Once someone thinks something, they can never change their minds, never be convinced of something else?

As Dr. Zoidberg said earlier, our sexual preferences are, to a large degree rooted in our biology and genes. You seem to think that men can (and should) be re-trained to lust after obese women. Should we expect women to be trained to lust after short men? This video seems to say that "it ain't gonna happen". At least with obesity there is some glimmer of hope that an obese person can be made thin. No short adult male has any hope whatsoever of becoming tall.



And as the guy at the end of the video says, "Life ain't fair":

Lots of short guys have plenty of women chasing after them. Lots.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Fat acceptance is necessary for a healthy body and a healthy society.

Here is what I mean by fat acceptance. Accepting that fat is a part of the human body and a healthy part of the human diet. We need fat to live and he must consume fats (or oils if you prefer) in sufficient quantities in order to live healthy lives.

Fat is a reality like beef liver or Drake, you don't have to like it, but you have to admit some people do and they have that right.

What we have come to do is give fat too much power. We use fat in ways it was never intended. We use fat to make moral judgments about people we do not know. If you have a small amount of body fat, then you are good and if you have a large amount you are bad.

Fat is supposed to be a way to survive famine not an excuse to prejudge.

And what happens to the psyche of a person or a people when who imbue fat with a power to rank people as worthy or less worthy of being treated with common decency and respect? A billion dollar weight loss industry, yo-yo dieting, bulimia, anorexia, suicides, type two diabetes, and the list goes on.

What if we could all just accept fat for nothing more than what it is, not give it more more meaning than what it has? What if we could think about being healthy without regard to size and fat? Well, I stopped giving power to fat that fat didn't have and I stopped being winded after a single flight of stairs, started enjoying walking, and cut my need for blood pressure medication.

Oh yeah I lost 130 lb. But that doesn't matter. Getting healthy does and if I could have gotten healthy and not lost one ounce, it would have been ok because I don't let fat determine my worth.

And as long as we live in a society that does allow such foolishness, our health problems are just gonna get worse.

We're talking about different things. I agree that would be nice if we did. My point is that we don't have that option. We have an instinctual drive toward judging people unequally. It's instinct. Like I said, if plump is up lean is down. Regardless of beauty ideal there are always winners and losers. Healthwise, if we're undernourished we get one set of diseases. Over nourished another. There's no way to win really.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Fat acceptance is necessary for a healthy body and a healthy society.

Here is what I mean by fat acceptance. Accepting that fat is a part of the human body and a healthy part of the human diet. We need fat to live and he must consume fats (or oils if you prefer) in sufficient quantities in order to live healthy lives.

Fat is a reality like beef liver or Drake, you don't have to like it, but you have to admit some people do and they have that right.

What we have come to do is give fat too much power. We use fat in ways it was never intended. We use fat to make moral judgments about people we do not know. If you have a small amount of body fat, then you are good and if you have a large amount you are bad.

Fat is supposed to be a way to survive famine not an excuse to prejudge.

And what happens to the psyche of a person or a people when who imbue fat with a power to rank people as worthy or less worthy of being treated with common decency and respect? A billion dollar weight loss industry, yo-yo dieting, bulimia, anorexia, suicides, type two diabetes, and the list goes on.

What if we could all just accept fat for nothing more than what it is, not give it more more meaning than what it has? What if we could think about being healthy without regard to size and fat? Well, I stopped giving power to fat that fat didn't have and I stopped being winded after a single flight of stairs, started enjoying walking, and cut my need for blood pressure medication.

Oh yeah I lost 130 lb. But that doesn't matter. Getting healthy does and if I could have gotten healthy and not lost one ounce, it would have been ok because I don't let fat determine my worth.

And as long as we live in a society that does allow such foolishness, our health problems are just gonna get worse.

We're talking about different things. I agree that would be nice if we did. My point is that we don't have that option. We have an instinctual drive toward judging people unequally. It's instinct. Like I said, if plump is up lean is down. Regardless of beauty ideal there are always winners and losers. Healthwise, if we're undernourished we get one set of diseases. Over nourished another. There's no way to win really.

I don't believe that. We have more control over what we think and feel than we are brave enough to admit. The same argument you are making about fat has been made about races. Take people of Asian descent.

The Yellow Peril was a belief about Asians that held sway in this country for nearly a century and a half. Big teeth, slits for eyes, and all the men had an encompassing desire to ravage white women and the women were either docile slaves or wanton harlots, not to mention all Asians were dim witted and scheming and drug addicted. Now these same people are the model minority we should all aspire to be. ideas changed. Now the model minority stereotype has problems of its own (just read Asian-American blogs and the people themselves will tell you what they are) but this a evidence things can change.

Disease is no longer believed to be demon possession, cancer is no longer a thing so fearful it can only be spoken of in hushed tones, and as is proven every July at my family reunion, all black people DO NOT have rhythm.

Now you don't have to find heavy people sexually attractive. We all have our type, and we all have our kink. But it is well within the capabilities of human beings to not treat fat people like something you need to scrape off your shoe before going into the house, and to make treating fat people like skinny people with regards to everyday interactions into a social norm.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Today the most beautiful body for both men and women is the athletes. Muscular and toned. Does anybody disagree with this?

Perhaps overall, but I think as we age, our expectations become more aligned with reality. I've always been attracted to short women. Not out of necessity. I'm 6'. As I've aged, my perfect woman has gotten plumper. You just can't list that on a dating website. Plump is too broadly defined.

 

[rousseau]

We're talking about different things. I agree that would be nice if we did. My point is that we don't have that option. We have an instinctual drive toward judging people unequally. It's instinct. Like I said, if plump is up lean is down. Regardless of beauty ideal there are always winners and losers. Healthwise, if we're undernourished we get one set of diseases. Over nourished another. There's no way to win really.

I don't believe that. We have more control over what we think and feel than we are brave enough to admit. The same argument you are making about fat has been made about races. Take people of Asian descent.

The Yellow Peril was a belief about Asians that held sway in this country for nearly a century and a half. Big teeth, slits for eyes, and all the men had an encompassing desire to ravage white women and the women were either docile slaves or wanton harlots, not to mention all Asians were dim witted and scheming and drug addicted. Now these same people are the model minority we should all aspire to be. ideas changed. Now the model minority stereotype has problems of its own (just read Asian-American blogs and the people themselves will tell you what they are) but this a evidence things can change.

Disease is no longer believed to be demon possession, cancer is no longer a thing so fearful it can only be spoken of in hushed tones, and as is proven every July at my family reunion, all black people DO NOT have rhythm.

Now you don't have to find heavy people sexually attractive. We all have our type, and we all have our kink. But it is well within the capabilities of human beings to not treat fat people like something you need to scrape off your shoe before going into the house, and to make treating fat people like skinny people with regards to everyday interactions into a social norm.

Again, you're talking about two different things.

Let's scrap weight and talk about something more fundamental to attraction: symmetry.

People who are more symmetrical are scientifically more attractive than people who are not. I guess the underlying evolutionary logic would be that if your genes want to propagate themselves forever, you want to reproduce with someone who is going to produce more attractive kids, so you are attracted to people who are biologically attractive. Does that mean that every person everywhere is always going to be only attracted to perfect people? No. Does that mean that people can't date people without perfect symmetry? No. But few things in life ever work in absolutes. It's a probability thing: people are more likely than not to date symmetrical people.

Now take that concept and revert it back to weight. There was a time when weight was a sign of fitness because it meant that you were prosperous enough to actually have food to eat. Therefore attractive. Nowadays, greater weight is actually just more likely to point to a lack of fitness in some way. Overweight people are literally less sexually fit than people of a healthy weight, and so in probabilistic terms people are more likely to not date them. Sure, that sounds cruel as fuck, but that's the biology of it, which is what DrZoidberg is referring to. It doesn't mean you'll never have a parter, relationship, or get laid, it just means that you are statistically less likely to do so, because you do not meet the ideal image of genetic health.

Now, what you are talking about is how people actually value overweight people. This isn't a problem that's specific to overweight people, it's a problem specific to people being complete fucking ass holes. Everyone, everywhere who doesn't fit some norm in some way, is probably going to be outcast by someone else, somewhere.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

I don't believe that. We have more control over what we think and feel than we are brave enough to admit. The same argument you are making about fat has been made about races. Take people of Asian descent.

The Yellow Peril was a belief about Asians that held sway in this country for nearly a century and a half. Big teeth, slits for eyes, and all the men had an encompassing desire to ravage white women and the women were either docile slaves or wanton harlots, not to mention all Asians were dim witted and scheming and drug addicted. Now these same people are the model minority we should all aspire to be. ideas changed. Now the model minority stereotype has problems of its own (just read Asian-American blogs and the people themselves will tell you what they are) but this a evidence things can change.

Disease is no longer believed to be demon possession, cancer is no longer a thing so fearful it can only be spoken of in hushed tones, and as is proven every July at my family reunion, all black people DO NOT have rhythm.

Now you don't have to find heavy people sexually attractive. We all have our type, and we all have our kink. But it is well within the capabilities of human beings to not treat fat people like something you need to scrape off your shoe before going into the house, and to make treating fat people like skinny people with regards to everyday interactions into a social norm.

Again, you're talking about two different things.

Let's scrap weight and talk about something more fundamental to attraction: symmetry.

People who are more symmetrical are scientifically more attractive than people who are not. I guess the underlying evolutionary logic would be that if your genes want to propagate themselves forever, you want to reproduce with someone who is going to produce more attractive kids, so you are attracted to people who are biologically attractive. Does that mean that every person everywhere is always going to be only attracted to perfect people? No. Does that mean that people can't date people without perfect symmetry? No. But few things in life ever work in absolutes. It's a probability thing: people are more likely than not to date symmetrical people.

Now take that concept and revert it back to weight. There was a time when weight was a sign of fitness because it meant that you were prosperous enough to actually have food to eat. Therefore attractive. Nowadays, greater weight is actually just more likely to point to a lack of fitness in some way. Overweight people are literally less sexually fit than people of a healthy weight, and so in probabilistic terms people are more likely to not date them. Sure, that sounds cruel as fuck, but that's the biology of it, which is what DrZoidberg is referring to. It doesn't mean you'll never have a parter, relationship, or get laid, it just means that you are statistically less likely to do so, because you do not meet the ideal image of genetic health.

Now, what you are talking about is how people actually value overweight people. This isn't a problem that's specific to overweight people, it's a problem specific to people being complete fucking ass holes. Everyone, everywhere who doesn't fit some norm in some way, is probably going to be outcast by someone else, somewhere.

You hold a very low opinion of your fellow human beings and you place a very high premium on genetics, or at least your understanding of them and what they do.

Interesting.

 

[rousseau]

Again, you're talking about two different things.

Let's scrap weight and talk about something more fundamental to attraction: symmetry.

People who are more symmetrical are scientifically more attractive than people who are not. I guess the underlying evolutionary logic would be that if your genes want to propagate themselves forever, you want to reproduce with someone who is going to produce more attractive kids, so you are attracted to people who are biologically attractive. Does that mean that every person everywhere is always going to be only attracted to perfect people? No. Does that mean that people can't date people without perfect symmetry? No. But few things in life ever work in absolutes. It's a probability thing: people are more likely than not to date symmetrical people.

Now take that concept and revert it back to weight. There was a time when weight was a sign of fitness because it meant that you were prosperous enough to actually have food to eat. Therefore attractive. Nowadays, greater weight is actually just more likely to point to a lack of fitness in some way. Overweight people are literally less sexually fit than people of a healthy weight, and so in probabilistic terms people are more likely to not date them. Sure, that sounds cruel as fuck, but that's the biology of it, which is what DrZoidberg is referring to. It doesn't mean you'll never have a parter, relationship, or get laid, it just means that you are statistically less likely to do so, because you do not meet the ideal image of genetic health.

Now, what you are talking about is how people actually value overweight people. This isn't a problem that's specific to overweight people, it's a problem specific to people being complete fucking ass holes. Everyone, everywhere who doesn't fit some norm in some way, is probably going to be outcast by someone else, somewhere.

You hold a very low opinion of your fellow human beings and you place a very high premium on genetics, or at least your understanding of them and what they do.

Interesting.

The power of genetics is a lot stronger than people realize. Back in high-school I was friends with a stunningly gorgeous girl, and have quietly watched people gravitate to her to the point that she's been chronically depressed about it, so I've seen the power of appearance first hand.

In terms of a low opinion of people .. I don't know that it's a low opinion so much as I don't see a reason that a positive opinion should be my default, and so far the majority of people I meet seem to eventually swing to the negative end. Luckily, I'm usually able to write it off as ignorance, which most of the time .. it is.

 

[TSwizzle]

Fat acceptance is necessary for a healthy body and a healthy society.

Nah. Too many fat fuckers think that being obese is a form of disability that entitles them to disabled parking spots and electric carts to wheel them round the supermarket to save them the bother of walking or getting to the front of the line at Disneyland.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Fat acceptance is necessary for a healthy body and a healthy society.

Nah. Too many fat fuckers think that being obese is a form of disability that entitles them to disabled parking spots and electric carts to wheel them round the supermarket to save them the bother of walking or getting to the front of the line at Disneyland.

here. is the rest of the Post, for the adults in the room

Here is what I mean by fat acceptance. Accepting that fat is a part of the human body and a healthy part of the human diet. We need fat to live and he must consume fats (or oils if you prefer) in sufficient quantities in order to live healthy lives.

Fat is a reality like beef liver or Drake, you don't have to like it, but you have to admit some people do and they have that right.

What we have come to do is give fat too much power. We use fat in ways it was never intended. We use fat to make moral judgments about people we do not know. If you have a small amount of body fat, then you are good and if you have a large amount you are bad.

Fat is supposed to be a way to survive famine not an excuse to prejudge.

And what happens to the psyche of a person or a people when who imbue fat with a power to rank people as worthy or less worthy of being treated with common decency and respect? A billion dollar weight loss industry, yo-yo dieting, bulimia, anorexia, suicides, type two diabetes, and the list goes on.

What if we could all just accept fat for nothing more than what it is, not give it more more meaning than what it has? What if we could think about being healthy without regard to size and fat? Well, I stopped giving power to fat that fat didn't have and I stopped being winded after a single flight of stairs, started enjoying walking, and cut my need for blood pressure medication.

Oh yeah I lost 130 lb. But that doesn't matter. Getting healthy does and if I could have gotten healthy and not lost one ounce, it would have been ok because I don't let fat determine my worth.

And as long as we live in a society that does allow such foolishness, our health problems are just gonna get worse.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Nah. Too many fat fuckers think that being obese is a form of disability that entitles them to disabled parking spots and electric carts to wheel them round the supermarket to save them the bother of walking or getting to the front of the line at Disneyland.

here. is the rest of the Post, for the adults in the room

Here is what I mean by fat acceptance. Accepting that fat is a part of the human body and a healthy part of the human diet. We need fat to live and he must consume fats (or oils if you prefer) in sufficient quantities in order to live healthy lives.

Fat is a reality like beef liver or Drake, you don't have to like it, but you have to admit some people do and they have that right.

What we have come to do is give fat too much power. We use fat in ways it was never intended. We use fat to make moral judgments about people we do not know. If you have a small amount of body fat, then you are good and if you have a large amount you are bad.

Fat is supposed to be a way to survive famine not an excuse to prejudge.

And what happens to the psyche of a person or a people when who imbue fat with a power to rank people as worthy or less worthy of being treated with common decency and respect? A billion dollar weight loss industry, yo-yo dieting, bulimia, anorexia, suicides, type two diabetes, and the list goes on.

What if we could all just accept fat for nothing more than what it is, not give it more more meaning than what it has? What if we could think about being healthy without regard to size and fat? Well, I stopped giving power to fat that fat didn't have and I stopped being winded after a single flight of stairs, started enjoying walking, and cut my need for blood pressure medication.

Oh yeah I lost 130 lb. But that doesn't matter. Getting healthy does and if I could have gotten healthy and not lost one ounce, it would have been ok because I don't let fat determine my worth.

And as long as we live in a society that does allow such foolishness, our health problems are just gonna get worse.

He didn't say anything about eating fat. He criticised getting over-weight. Which you didn't address at all. Eating fat is fine. If you eat a lot of fat and become over-weight you're obviously doing something wrong. It could be the fat. It could be something else that is the problem.

 

[Axulus]

Fat acceptance is necessary for a healthy body and a healthy society.

Nah. Too many fat fuckers think that being obese is a form of disability that entitles them to disabled parking spots and electric carts to wheel them round the supermarket to save them the bother of walking or getting to the front of the line at Disneyland.

Are you claiming that obesity doesn't impact mobility? Or rather you accept that it does but think they should just have to deal with it even if a supermarket specifically wants to cater to them by offering them easier mobility?

 

[AthenaAwakened]

here. is the rest of the Post, for the adults in the room

Here is what I mean by fat acceptance. Accepting that fat is a part of the human body and a healthy part of the human diet. We need fat to live and he must consume fats (or oils if you prefer) in sufficient quantities in order to live healthy lives.

Fat is a reality like beef liver or Drake, you don't have to like it, but you have to admit some people do and they have that right.

What we have come to do is give fat too much power. We use fat in ways it was never intended. We use fat to make moral judgments about people we do not know. If you have a small amount of body fat, then you are good and if you have a large amount you are bad.

Fat is supposed to be a way to survive famine not an excuse to prejudge.

And what happens to the psyche of a person or a people when who imbue fat with a power to rank people as worthy or less worthy of being treated with common decency and respect? A billion dollar weight loss industry, yo-yo dieting, bulimia, anorexia, suicides, type two diabetes, and the list goes on.

What if we could all just accept fat for nothing more than what it is, not give it more more meaning than what it has? What if we could think about being healthy without regard to size and fat? Well, I stopped giving power to fat that fat didn't have and I stopped being winded after a single flight of stairs, started enjoying walking, and cut my need for blood pressure medication.

Oh yeah I lost 130 lb. But that doesn't matter. Getting healthy does and if I could have gotten healthy and not lost one ounce, it would have been ok because I don't let fat determine my worth.

And as long as we live in a society that does allow such foolishness, our health problems are just gonna get worse.

He didn't say anything about eating fat. He criticised getting over-weight. Which you didn't address at all. Eating fat is fine. If you eat a lot of fat and become over-weight you're obviously doing something wrong. It could be the fat. It could be something else that is the problem.

when you take a quote of mine out of context, there is a really good chance I'm gonna put it back into context. If you don't like that, don't take my words and try to fit them into your point.

 

[Bronzeage]

Nah. Too many fat fuckers think that being obese is a form of disability that entitles them to disabled parking spots and electric carts to wheel them round the supermarket to save them the bother of walking or getting to the front of the line at Disneyland.

Are you claiming that obesity doesn't impact mobility? Or rather you accept that it does but think they should just have to deal with it even if a supermarket specifically wants to cater to them by offering them easier mobility?

There are a lot of people who believe obesity is a self inflicted wound and classifying obesity as a disability is a form of mollycoddling(there's a work you don't hear often.

There are a lot of self inflicted disabilities which don't get this treatment. I know a guy who lost control of his motorcycle and when the dust settled, he lost his left leg, just above the knee. The accident was due to his carelessness and reckless driving. Although it maybe easier to lose weight than to grow a new leg, if we are going to deny disability benefits to all who could have done better by themselves, we'll need to closely examine a host of illnesses, including smoking related problems and chemical exposure diseases.

If we are going to put our foot down and drop the mollycoddling of fat people, because it's their fault they are fat, the rest of those malingerers need to be pushed down the same wheelchair ramp, right behind them.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Are you claiming that obesity doesn't impact mobility? Or rather you accept that it does but think they should just have to deal with it even if a supermarket specifically wants to cater to them by offering them easier mobility?

There are a lot of people who believe obesity is a self inflicted wound and classifying obesity as a disability is a form of mollycoddling(there's a work you don't hear often.

There are a lot of self inflicted disabilities which don't get this treatment. I know a guy who lost control of his motorcycle and when the dust settled, he lost his left leg, just above the knee. The accident was due to his carelessness and reckless driving. Although it maybe easier to lose weight than to grow a new leg, if we are going to deny disability benefits to all who could have done better by themselves, we'll need to closely examine a host of illnesses, including smoking related problems and chemical exposure diseases.

If we are going to put our foot down and drop the mollycoddling of fat people, because it's their fault they are fat, the rest of those malingerers need to be pushed down the same wheelchair ramp, right behind them.

I hate this line of reasoning, since self-destructive behaviour surely is a mental handicap of sorts? People who systematically take stupid risks are obviously not well in the head. It really annoys me when mental afflictions are seen as less serious than other types of handicaps... just because it's invisible and hard to measure. I think it can be argued that obesity on some level always has depression or something along those lines as a root cause. I mean... nobody, healthy in the head, wants to be over-weight. I'm not fat shaming now. But being over-weight has no perks to it... in any way.

 

[TSwizzle]

Nah. Too many fat fuckers think that being obese is a form of disability that entitles them to disabled parking spots and electric carts to wheel them round the supermarket to save them the bother of walking or getting to the front of the line at Disneyland.

Are you claiming that obesity doesn't impact mobility? Or rather you accept that it does but think they should just have to deal with it even if a supermarket specifically wants to cater to them by offering them easier mobility?

I'm not sure that when the supermarkets laid on mobility carts they had obese people specifically in mind. But in any event, if obese people want to use them, have at it. It doesn't bother me, I never use them. Maybe when I am old and infirm I would take advantage of a mobility cart, if one is available.

 

[credoconsolans]

Are you claiming that obesity doesn't impact mobility? Or rather you accept that it does but think they should just have to deal with it even if a supermarket specifically wants to cater to them by offering them easier mobility?

I'm not sure that when the supermarkets laid on mobility carts they had obese people specifically in mind. But in any event, if obese people want to use them, have at it. It doesn't bother me, I never use them. Maybe when I am old and infirm I would take advantage of a mobility cart, if one is available.

Unless some lazy fat fuck hasn't already taken them all.

 

[Derec]

I'm not sure that when the supermarkets laid on mobility carts they had obese people specifically in mind. But in any event, if obese people want to use them, have at it. It doesn't bother me, I never use them. Maybe when I am old and infirm I would take advantage of a mobility cart, if one is available.

I am huge and I never use them. In fact, I am rather active for my size. But it did remind me of this:

 

[none]

The reason I bring this up is many people believe the following to be true and this is the Politics Discussion venue.
According to the Genesis account eating was lethal.

 

[Metaphor]

The reason I bring this up is many people believe the following to be true and this is the Politics Discussion venue.
According to the Genesis account eating was lethal.

No, eating in general wasn't, but eating the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil was supposed to be. Except that God lied about that and it was eaten and it wasn't lethal.