Federal troops helping suppress protests in Portland OR

[repoman]

If these were immigration restriction advocates who were causing damage while chanting, "hey hey, ho ho - H1Bs have got to go" you bet your ass there would be a massive crackdown and there would be long jail sentences.

I cannot parse this at all. Do you mean if the proud boys protested the proud boys would be arrested?

They already have been and heavily charged and convicted. That is why they do not dare to go out often.

 

[skepticalbip]

I am waiting to see if anything happens to that couple in St. Louis. The mob had broken through the gate and were threatening to take over their home, kill them and their dog. The couple got their rifle and pistol to repel the mob, never leaving their property. The weapons did repel the mob but the DA is now threatening to bring charges against the couple, but not anyone in the threatening mob.

Oh yes, the couple did call 911 but were told that the police would not show up to protect them.

That is an excellent example that highlights the need to defund the police. Pretty average at the "protect and serve" part of the job. Fantastic at the "kill unarmed civilians without consequence" they allege only a few bad apples perpetuate.

There are other options than defunding the police.
. The politicians that directed the police to stand-down and not do their duty could be impeached.
. Politicians could order the police to do their duty and protect the citizens.
. Politicians could (and should) prosecute the renegade cops.

Defunding police only leaves 'community policing' (which is nice terminology for vigilantism) which is what the St. Louis couple were forced to resort to.

 

[Testy Calibrate]

As I understand the defund idea, that money would just go directly to the services that police do but shouldn't be providing.

You don't need a gun to take a report.

 

[skepticalbip]

As I understand the defund idea, that money would just go directly to the services that police do but shouldn't be providing.

You don't need a gun to take a report.

And, of course, you are psychic so know which domestic dispute call will require only a social worker to respond and make a report and which turns out to be one where one of the party has a shotgun to the head of the other and requires a bit more to resolve.

Must be nice to be able to predict what the person responding will find when they get there... saves a lot of investigation and manpower.

Not being psychic so not knowing what a responder will have to deal with is the reason a call for the fire department results in a full team with hoses, pumps, trucks, fire fighting equipment showing up when one person with a hand held fire extinguisher was all that turned out to be needed.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

If these were immigration restriction advocates who were causing damage while chanting, "hey hey, ho ho - H1Bs have got to go" you bet your ass there would be a massive crackdown and there would be long jail sentences.

I cannot parse this at all. Do you mean if the proud boys protested the proud boys would be arrested?

They already have been and heavily charged and convicted. That is why they do not dare to go out often.

You have a bit of a point in that both activities are reprehensible. The difference is that one activity is caused by institutionalized, systemic racism. The other activity is caused by the desire for institutionalized, systemic racism. Most people will generally forgive the former to a degree.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I am waiting to see if anything happens to that couple in St. Louis. The mob had broken through the gate and were threatening to take over their home, kill them and their dog. The couple got their rifle and pistol to repel the mob, never leaving their property. The weapons did repel the mob but the DA is now threatening to bring charges against the couple, but not anyone in the threatening mob.

Oh yes, the couple did call 911 but were told that the police would not show up to protect them.

That is an excellent example that highlights the need to defund the police. Pretty average at the "protect and serve" part of the job. Fantastic at the "kill unarmed civilians without consequence" they allege only a few bad apples perpetuate.

There are other options than defunding the police.
. The politicians that directed the police to stand-down and not do their duty could be impeached.
. Politicians could order the police to do their duty and protect the citizens.
. Politicians could (and should) prosecute the renegade cops.

Defunding police only leaves 'community policing' (which is nice terminology for vigilantism) which is what the St. Louis couple were forced to resort to.

I wouldn't make them your poster children for law and order. I certainly wouldn't want them for neighbors, to put it kindly.

 

[Testy Calibrate]

As I understand the defund idea, that money would just go directly to the services that police do but shouldn't be providing.

You don't need a gun to take a report.

And, of course, you are psychic so know which domestic dispute call will require only a social worker to respond and make a report and which turns out to be one where one of the party has a shotgun to the head of the other and requires a bit more to resolve.

Must be nice to be able to predict what the person responding will find when they get there... saves a lot of investigation and manpower.

Not being psychic so not knowing what a responder will have to deal with is the reason a call for the fire department results in a full team with hoses, pumps, trucks, fire fighting equipment showing up when one person with a hand held fire extinguisher was all that turned out to be needed.

Are you being serious? You don't think there are plenty of clear cases where cops are not necessary?

 

[Testy Calibrate]

If these were immigration restriction advocates who were causing damage while chanting, "hey hey, ho ho - H1Bs have got to go" you bet your ass there would be a massive crackdown and there would be long jail sentences.

I cannot parse this at all. Do you mean if the proud boys protested the proud boys would be arrested?

They already have been and heavily charged and convicted. That is why they do not dare to go out often.

I still cannot parse this. Who is "they" and where and when were [people who identify as group x] heavily charged and convicted? And what does it mean to be "heavily" charged and convicted? Does it mean violently? Frequently? Unequally? Unjustly?

 

[Testy Calibrate]

They already have been and heavily charged and convicted. That is why they do not dare to go out often.

You have a bit of a point in that both activities are reprehensible. The difference is that one activity is caused by institutionalized, systemic racism. The other activity is caused by the desire for institutionalized, systemic racism. Most people will generally forgive the former to a degree.

What the heck are you responding to here? Where is that point mentioned?
Eta: what 2 activities are you referencing?

 

[skepticalbip]

As I understand the defund idea, that money would just go directly to the services that police do but shouldn't be providing.

You don't need a gun to take a report.

And, of course, you are psychic so know which domestic dispute call will require only a social worker to respond and make a report and which turns out to be one where one of the party has a shotgun to the head of the other and requires a bit more to resolve.

Must be nice to be able to predict what the person responding will find when they get there... saves a lot of investigation and manpower.

Not being psychic so not knowing what a responder will have to deal with is the reason a call for the fire department results in a full team with hoses, pumps, trucks, fire fighting equipment showing up when one person with a hand held fire extinguisher was all that turned out to be needed.

Are you being serious? You don't think there are plenty of clear cases where cops are not necessary?

After the fact... absolutely it is easy to determine that the cop wasn't needed.

 

[Patooka]

As I understand the defund idea, that money would just go directly to the services that police do but shouldn't be providing.

You don't need a gun to take a report.

And, of course, you are psychic so know which domestic dispute call will require only a social worker to respond and make a report and which turns out to be one where one of the party has a shotgun to the head of the other and requires a bit more to resolve.

Must be nice to be able to predict what the person responding will find when they get there... saves a lot of investigation and manpower.

Not being psychic so not knowing what a responder will have to deal with is the reason a call for the fire department results in a full team with hoses, pumps, trucks, fire fighting equipment showing up when one person with a hand held fire extinguisher was all that turned out to be needed.

Hospitals deal this sort of stuff all the time. They don't end in fatalities. Your argument that sending in cops by default after they've taken a course in killology is asinine and very out of touch.

 

[skepticalbip]

As I understand the defund idea, that money would just go directly to the services that police do but shouldn't be providing.

You don't need a gun to take a report.

And, of course, you are psychic so know which domestic dispute call will require only a social worker to respond and make a report and which turns out to be one where one of the party has a shotgun to the head of the other and requires a bit more to resolve.

Must be nice to be able to predict what the person responding will find when they get there... saves a lot of investigation and manpower.

Not being psychic so not knowing what a responder will have to deal with is the reason a call for the fire department results in a full team with hoses, pumps, trucks, fire fighting equipment showing up when one person with a hand held fire extinguisher was all that turned out to be needed.

Hospitals deal this sort of stuff all the time. They don't end in fatalities. Your argument that sending in cops by default after they've taken a course in killology is asinine and very out of touch.

911 receives a call reporting a loud fight next door... a typical domestic violence call. Do you send a social worker? What will they encounter... two old senior citizens screaming at each other over which TV program to watch or maybe several armed people in a real melee, maybe a home intruder fighting with a woman trying to rape her?

Believe it or not, police officers are trained in social work too. I know a couple old retired cops who say that they have never fired their weapons except on the target range.

 

[Testy Calibrate]

Are you being serious? You don't think there are plenty of clear cases where cops are not necessary?

After the fact... absolutely it is easy to determine that the cop wasn't needed.

Only after the fact? So, in every case when a cop is called, there is a potential situation requiring violence? That sure sounds wrong. And biased

 

[skepticalbip]

Are you being serious? You don't think there are plenty of clear cases where cops are not necessary?

After the fact... absolutely it is easy to determine that the cop wasn't needed.

Only after the fact? So, in every case when a cop is called, there is a potential situation requiring violence? That sure sounds wrong. And biased

The responder never knows what is to be encountered until they get there. Just as with the fire department quite often being able to extinguish a fire with only a couple squirts from a hand-held fire extinguisher, they have the full team with all equipment just in case it is needed.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Actually domestic violence calls are the most dangerous calls police respond to.

 

[lpetrich]

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Federal law enforcement officers should have their identifying information displayed while on duty.
This is basic.
@EleanorNorton and I have introduced legislation to make it law: https://t.co/xcL1j15STo" / Twitter
noting that Nation article.

 

[repoman]

Not their actual name, but BADGE # ID, 100% agree with that.

Then a subpoena to get the badge ID matched to name in the event of a misconduct investigation.

 

[skepticalbip]

Actually domestic violence calls are the most dangerous calls police respond to.

I've heard that said too but I think it is likely because most cops have had to respond to such calls and occasionally had a bad experience or knew a fellow cop that had a bad experience. Most cops never experience what I would consider much more dangerous calls like 'active shooter calls' or maybe busting an illegal drug factory.

I've also heard that traffic stops can be dangerous. The driver could be a criminal with outstanding warrants that doesn't want to go to jail or any number of situations where the driver is a 'bad dude'.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Are you being serious? You don't think there are plenty of clear cases where cops are not necessary?

After the fact... absolutely it is easy to determine that the cop wasn't needed.

Buddy buddy! You need to get with the program! The anti police people came up with a brilliant plan. Replace the blue collar non college educated cops with white collar PHD level therapists when responding to domestic calls (for example). Now, you'd think that the PHD therapists who earn roughly three times more than the average cop would cost more. However, here's where you need to think outside the box. The therapists would be able to prevent domestic violence due to their superior intellect. Crime would go down. The lower costs would balance local municipalities budgets. It's a brilliant plan!

 

[Harry Bosch]

Are you being serious? You don't think there are plenty of clear cases where cops are not necessary?

After the fact... absolutely it is easy to determine that the cop wasn't needed.

Only after the fact? So, in every case when a cop is called, there is a potential situation requiring violence? That sure sounds wrong. And biased

Actually this is good idea. If we could just teach potential abusers to announce their intentions in advance, then poof, we wouldn't need the police meanies. But it's not clear how we get them to announce in advance. What is your idea here?