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Federal troops helping suppress protests in Portland OR

A cursory look at the last century and it is obvious that unchecked lawlessness and divisions opens the opportunity for demagogues like Trump, who is barely constrained by the legal system.

That (and distraction from the Trump Virus) is why he is doing everything he can to perpetuate it.

The Portland mayor and rioters(not demonstrators) now claim violence is due to federal agents, apparently ignoring months of riots. Trump added to it, but the problem has been running for months.

Snatching people of the street is what we expect in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Pakistan. Stating the obvious Trump is tone deaf and ignorant.
 
Another riot and looting today in downtown Seattle. Reporters threatened and forced to leave. On camera one rioter shouting 'mother fucking cameras down'

What we do not see is the democrats doing is demanding that order be restored. Portland and Seattle have had months of riots, looting, and destruction.

I see no other way to describe it but as insurrection. It is leaderless mob violence. It is no longer about any justice.

As long as the rioters and looters stay away from those who can actually do anything to address the problems (the homes of the mayor, city council, police chief, etc.) and only destroy the shops and homes of the 'little people' they will probably be allowed to continue to do whatever they want. Sorta like BWE, they are not attacking him and his home so he supports their destruction of other areas.
 
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I should give this a little bit more of a response. Please correct me where I am misunderstanding. You seem to be assuming that this is a simple matter of law enforcement - that the police are able to catch and charge the protestors who have broken laws, and that if they simply did that the problem would be solved.
They are certainly able to catch and prosecute more of them they currently do in faux-liberal bastions like Portland or Seattle. And even when rioters are caught their charges are often dismissed by left-wing DAs which emboldens them to do it again and again and issue more and more outlandish demands.

You also seem to assume that Wheeler is actively protecting the law breaking individuals involved in these protests.
Protecting them though inaction, or insufficient action, i.e. passively, not actively. But either way he is making the problem worse.

And finally, you seem to be assuming that the demands of the protesters are secondary in importance to the maintenance of what you are calling law and order.
Not just that, but those demands, if implemented, would harm the people. I have already mentioned the recent protests for Patrick Kimmons, a Rolling 60 Crips member, who was shot and killed almost 2 years ago. Well, we are not talking here about some unarmed black men unjustly shot down by police. We are talking about a gun-wielding thug who shot two people before police shot him. These "protesters" want police officers railroaded for doing their jobs!
But that's not even the worst thing! The "protesters" are part of far left groups that want nothing else than to dismantle the entire US economic and political system.
Meet the Youth Liberation Front behind a militant marathon of Portland protests

Seattle Times said:
For the Youth Liberation Front’s anonymous leaders, these protests are part of the revolution. They are resolutely anti-capitalist and anti-fascist, and express disdain for those who work for reform within what they view as a failing political system.[...]In social media posts, Youth Liberation Front leaders portray acts of vandalism as part of the broader struggle to make big changes in America. They reject any effort — by police or other groups — to divide the protest movement into those who are peaceful and those who turn to violence.“The Pigs are in a PR battle so they say there’s a difference from ‘peaceful’ and nonviolent protesters. When in fact what we are fighting is the ultimate form of violence, making any and all resistance self and community defense,” the Youth Liberation Front tweeted.[...]On June 26, protesters set a Dumpster on fire and pushed it up to the side of a northeast Portland building that housed minority-owned businesses and a police precinct station, where people were inside and had to contend with an exit door barricaded shut from the outside. Two suspects, an 18-year-old white man and a 22-year-old Black man, have since been arrested.
As an aside, note the racist practice of capitalizing "black" but leaving "white" lower case. What the fuck is that about?
The next month, three of the leaders — two young men and a young woman — spoke anonymously in a podcast produced by It’s Going Down, a “digital community center for anarchist, anti-fascist … anti-capitalist and anti-colonial movements.”

First, law enforcement is an agreement between and among citizens to grant the state the sole legitimate use of force.
Which means violence by extremist mobs is illegitimate whether that mob is right or left. I see a lot of apologia for left-wing violence on here.

Basic Hobbes there. It avoids the nasty brutish and short bit about the state of nature. If that agreement is not shared, law enforcement stops being the activity of police. At that point, suppression becomes its function.
Suppression of lawless elements of the society is a part of law enforcement.

The agreement has broken down. Many of us do not grant the police legitimacy under the current conditions and therefore arresting the few people who refuse to grant that legitimacy is no longer possible because it is not a 'few'.
The rioters are still a small minority of all people even in a lefty town like Portland. I doubt too big a percentage even there support people like Patrick Kimmons or goals such as dismantling capitalism.

It is a wide majority in PDX.
[citation needed]
And even if true, what is your solution? Turning Portland into some sort of an extremism sacrifice area and allowing extremists to run is as an anarcho-syndicalist commune or something?

I , and most of the people I know, do indeed understand that police are necessary but the legitimacy of the specific structures of that policing as it exists is gone and so we effectively have an occupying army who, by the definition of the social compact, are not protecting and serving 'the people' but rather enforcing the dominance of a select group.
I agree with you on the first part, but disagree with the second. And note that even reforming police the way you probably want (what would that be, btw? How should police respond if they witness a two people getting shot?) would not appease these extremists.

Who do you call when the people that answer the phone are the ones attacking you?
If you don't want police attacking you I suggest you stop shooting fellow gang members (Patrick Kimmons) or stop setting police precincts on fire (recent "protest" activities in Portland).
Blaming police for "attacking" criminals is not productive.

We do need police. We do need to protect individuals from violence.
Shooting people is violence. And yet the "protesters" are on the side of a gang banger who shot two people.
Arson is violence. And yet these "protesters" are actively engaging in it.

But when that violence is part of the citizen response to those who pretend to protect us, the structure has broken down and there is no good recourse but to join whichever side seems to offer the most security. The entire premise of law enforcement is erased and all that is left is us against them. I definitely know which group I see as them. And, as it turns out, I am not alone in that view.
Funny, I see it the exact opposite way. I see those who celebrate a gang member who shot two people as "them". I see arsonists, looters and rioters as "them". I see those who want to dismantle the US political and economic system as "them". And I hope "us" win, because otherwise US is doomed!

Second, Wheeler is actually being a decent politician.
Hardly.

The police have effectively insulated themselves from mayoral (or really any) oversight through a series of administrative actions and contracts. He is dealing with the police as an entity with their own power structures and the various citizen groups as their own entities with their own power structures and trying to negotiate a peaceful resolution.
And that's the problem. Police are part of the city government. They are not an outside group on par with the extremists. A mayor should be in support of his own police force, not opposed to them.

That is his job and he's got an immensely difficult task. If he were to side with the police and enforce a crackdown in the name of 'law and order', he would immediately face pushback from other groups who also have expressed willingness to exert power.
Pushback by extremists is not something to avoid. Appeasing them is.
Take Mayor Jenny form Seattle. She took the side of CHAZ for the longest and when she was finally backed into a corner and dismantled it, way too late, the extremists came out against her.
There is no use appeasing the extremists as they have a purity test. Unless you agree with them on all things, you get canceled. Jenny should have shown resolve, acted forcefully and dismantled CHAZ as soon as it sprang up. Instead she called it a street fair and "Baghdad Bob"-level nonsense like that.

The law isn't a magical edict that automatically grants legitimacy to one group. It is an agreement among the groups that the law is legitimate. At the moment, that agreement does not exist.
And I reiterate that it is a mistake to give even an inch to the extremists. Ted Wheeler will learn it the hard way just like Mayor Jenny did.
 
Violent Anarchist Graffiti is my new band name.
 
They are certainly able to catch and prosecute more of them they currently do in faux-liberal bastions like Portland or Seattle. And even when rioters are caught their charges are often dismissed by left-wing DAs which emboldens them to do it again and again and issue more and more outlandish demands.

All we need is one false attribution and you become part of

Trump/Covar-19 in 20 Again.

http://www.iowapbs.org/mtom/story/24493/oregon-case-jury-delivers-blow-government-lands-fight

Oregon case jury delivers blow to government in lands fight

Oct 28, 2016 | Ep4210

PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) — A jury delivered an extraordinary blow to the government in a long-running battle over the use of public lands when it acquitted all seven defendants involved in the armed occupation of a national wildlife refuge in rural southeastern Oregon.

Tumult erupted in the courtroom Thursday after the verdicts were read when an attorney for group leader Ammon Bundy demanded his client be immediately released and repeatedly yelled at the judge. U.S. marshals tackled attorney Marcus Mumford to the ground, used a stun gun on him several times and arrested him.

U.S. District Judge Anna Brown said she could not release Bundy because he still faces charges in Nevada stemming from an armed standoff at his father Cliven Bundy's ranch two years ago.

Above is it for you. 'twas a Portland jury that let that Nevada Bundy family bunch of Gun Nuts and range raiders off without as much as a hideho. A silver spike and clove of Garlic to your bogus claim of Portland as a hot bed of leftists falsehood.
 
Portland 'Wall of Moms' acting as human barrier between protesters, law enforcement

Faux Nooz no less...

The women, wearing yellow shirts and bike helmets, were seen linking arms and chanting “Moms are here, feds stay clear!” during a protest in the Oregon city Sunday night, according to footage posted on social media.
...

“We are about protecting peaceful citizens’ right to protest,” Bev Barnum, a 35-year-old mother of two identified by BuzzFeed News as the organizer of the “Wall of Moms” told the website.

That should piss ofF the orange clown no end. Defeated by girls again. What a loser.

moms.jpg
 
House Democrats demand investigation into use of force at Portland protests - Reuters
(snipped for brevity...)
Signed by Sen. Jeff Merkley, Sen. Ron Wyden, Rep. Suzanne Bonamici, and Rep. Earl Blumenauer
All four are Oregon politicians, SB is OR-01 (has a big of W Portland), EB is OR-03 (has most of Portland)

Ken Klippenstein on Twitter: "BREAKING: @AOC and @EleanorNorton to introduce bill that would require federal law enforcement officers to display identification when on duty, staffers tell me https://t.co/q4W1g0k5P5" / Twitter

A House Bill Would Require Feds to Identify Themselves | The Nation
Following a storm of controversy over arrests by federal agents in Portland, Ore., New York Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Washington, D.C., Delegate Eleanor Holmes Norton will be introducing legislation this week that would require federal law enforcement officials to clearly identify themselves, according to a draft bill provided exclusively to The Nation.

The bill would require on-duty federal agents display not just the name of their agency, but the individual agent’s last name and identification number. It would also mandate a new form of oversight for the Justice Department, requiring its inspector general to conduct routine audits to ensure compliance with the legislation. The results of these audits would then be reported to Congress.

Last week, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) drew scrutiny after federal agents in military fatigues used unmarked vehicles to arrest protesters in Portland. Among these federal agents were members of elite Border Patrol Tactical Units (BORTAC), Custom and Border Protection’s SWAT team equivalent. Despite the mayor of Portland’s demand that federal agents leave the city, DHS Acting Secretary Chad Wolf refused.

...
While this incident was clearly a catalyst for public concern, a spokesperson for Representative Ocasio-Cortez said that her office had been working on this legislation for months.
 
Let's see them come to an Open Carry state and try that.
"Armed man without identification attempts to kidnap a citizen"... In Colorado, that is the third listed provision for the use of deadly force.. to stop a kidnapping (first is to stop a murder, second is to stop a rape, third is to stop a kidnapping).
 
fourth... arguing balls and strikes.
Let's see them come to an Open Carry state and try that.
"Armed man without identification attempts to kidnap a citizen"... In Colorado, that is the third listed provision for the use of deadly force.. to stop a kidnapping (first is to stop a murder, second is to stop a rape, third is to stop a kidnapping).
 
I don't have a huge problem with any of these issues. But I think that what we really need is far better training for the police.

Training matters but only if the thin blue line is cut. Otherwise, the structure of the system renders Training moot.

How would cutting the number of police help in anyway?? Obviously, bad cops should be fired. But you seem to be suggesting that cutting the number of cops would fix the problem. That makes no sense.

That's correct. The tried and successful solution has been to have more police but to have them represent community interests and be in contact with the people they represent all the time. The problem is a militarized police force that never gets out of their patrol cars except when they need to draw their weapons.

The most important aspect of policing is to know and have the trust and respect of people in the community. Too many police forces are composed of officers who think they are the rulers of their communities.
 
fourth... arguing balls and strikes.
Let's see them come to an Open Carry state and try that.
"Armed man without identification attempts to kidnap a citizen"... In Colorado, that is the third listed provision for the use of deadly force.. to stop a kidnapping (first is to stop a murder, second is to stop a rape, third is to stop a kidnapping).

nope. There is no fourth. The "Make my Day" law (Castle Doctrine implementation in CO) requires you are on your own property (unlike in TX where "Stand your Ground" is assignable to your neighbor), and further that an ADDITIONAL crime is being committed WHILE the trespass is occuring. And that is the end of justifiable deadly force in my state.
IOW, you cannot shoot someone for breaking into your home... until they start stealing things or threatening anyone... but you can (and should) shoot someone for attempting to murder, rape or kidnap someone. Failure to clearly identify through markings and / or verbal announcement while restraining and detaining someone, is kidnapping... an offense for which Colorado defenders can and will use extreme force to stop. They need only identify themselves / their agency and make verbally clear the source of their authority to avoid justifiably being killed by a good samaritan.
 
If these were immigration restriction advocates who were causing damage while chanting, "hey hey, ho ho - H1Bs have got to go" you bet your ass there would be a massive crackdown and there would be long jail sentences.
 
fourth... arguing balls and strikes.
Let's see them come to an Open Carry state and try that.
"Armed man without identification attempts to kidnap a citizen"... In Colorado, that is the third listed provision for the use of deadly force.. to stop a kidnapping (first is to stop a murder, second is to stop a rape, third is to stop a kidnapping).

nope. There is no fourth. The "Make my Day" law (Castle Doctrine implementation in CO) requires you are on your own property (unlike in TX where "Stand your Ground" is assignable to your neighbor), and further that an ADDITIONAL crime is being committed WHILE the trespass is occuring. And that is the end of justifiable deadly force in my state.
IOW, you cannot shoot someone for breaking into your home... until they start stealing things or threatening anyone... but you can (and should) shoot someone for attempting to murder, rape or kidnap someone. Failure to clearly identify through markings and / or verbal announcement while restraining and detaining someone, is kidnapping... an offense for which Colorado defenders can and will use extreme force to stop. They need only identify themselves / their agency and make verbally clear the source of their authority to avoid justifiably being killed by a good samaritan.

I am waiting to see if anything happens to that couple in St. Louis. The mob had broken through the gate and were threatening to take over their home, kill them and their dog. The couple got their rifle and pistol to repel the mob, never leaving their property. The weapons did repel the mob but the DA is now threatening to bring charges against the couple, but not anyone in the threatening mob.

Oh yes, the couple did call 911 but were told that the police would not show up to protect them.
 
I am waiting to see if anything happens to that couple in St. Louis. The mob had broken through the gate and were threatening to take over their home, kill them and their dog. The couple got their rifle and pistol to repel the mob, never leaving their property. The weapons did repel the mob but the DA is now threatening to bring charges against the couple, but not anyone in the threatening mob.

Oh yes, the couple did call 911 but were told that the police would not show up to protect them.

That is an excellent example that highlights the need to defund the police. Pretty average at the "protect and serve" part of the job. Fantastic at the "kill unarmed civilians without consequence" they allege only a few bad apples perpetuate.
 
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