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Finding Truth questions about evolution (split from the "God and freedom" thread)

Keith&Co.

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Finding Truth, give us more than just one post, you little tease.

:eating_popcorn:
He's got some blog entries that show an amazing lack of understanding of basic evolutionary concepts.

One being that the chicken evolved separately from the cock.
 
Quote Originally Posted by hylidae View Post
Finding Truth, give us more than just one post, you little tease.


He's got some blog entries that show an amazing lack of understanding of basic evolutionary concepts.

One being that the chicken evolved separately from the cock.

Could someone enlighten me of the basic understanding evolutionary concepts, maybe you could do it on my blog "The chicken or the egg which came first "

I would appreciate it very much, That is why I came to Free Thinking to get it from the horses mouth so to speak.
 
Could someone enlighten me of the basic understanding evolutionary concepts, maybe you could do it on my blog "The chicken or the egg which came first "

I would appreciate it very much, That is why I came to Free Thinking to get it from the horses mouth so to speak.
I dunno. The blog is unweildy for a conversation.
And your basic understanding is way, way off. There's a lot to cover.

But for example, cocks and hens do not evolve as individuals. Gene pools evolve. Strains of a species go through changes together. Your question about how the chicken evolves and how the cockerel evolves at the same time is just so ill-wrought it's not even wrong.
 
Quote Originally Posted by hylidae View Post
Finding Truth, give us more than just one post, you little tease.


He's got some blog entries that show an amazing lack of understanding of basic evolutionary concepts.

One being that the chicken evolved separately from the cock.

Could someone enlighten me of the basic understanding evolutionary concepts, maybe you could do it on my blog "The chicken or the egg which came first "

I would appreciate it very much, That is why I came to Free Thinking to get it from the horses mouth so to speak.
You can learn about evolutionary concepts in a number of ways. Learning about it by preaching on a free thought message board is kind of like learning about bees by sticking your face in a hive. I mean, it will do the trick but... you might want to just start with Google. Also, the Howard Hughes Medical Institute has tons of free educational resources.
 
You can learn about evolutionary concepts in a number of ways. Learning about it by preaching on a free thought message board is kind of like learning about bees by sticking your face in a hive.

The corollary to the above statement is this: the only things in life that are free (like the thoughts on this message board) are those that are not controlled by a central authority, and the only reason a central authority doesn't control something is that it lacks the power to do so or it doesn't really want to control something (do you want to control feces?).

So while hylidae offered up her tough guy analogy of a hive a bees, "learning" about evolution here is really a bit more like dunking your head in a toilet bowl full of rancid urine and shit that the central authority doesn't want to deal with at the moment. You don't have to do it, but like a dog to another dog's ass....
 
(do you want to control feces?).
yes, very much so.
It's key to keeping a community hygenic. Limiting the spread of diseases.
Keeping the streets safe for mothers and children.

Historically, under siege conditions, once the population overwhelms the sanitation facilities, everyone's health has been at risk.
You cannot just hope the shit goes away.
 
Ohh, not on purpose. But now that I think about it, I wouldn't want to get the HH name that close to a comment about <what I said>... just in case. I'm going to wash my keyboard...

Offering a link to a free resource for scientific information on evolutionary biology (what Finding Truth claims to want to learn about), in your mind, equates to sticking your head in a toilet? What's really bothering you?
 
What about a few analogies for FT?

Evolution might be explained through comparison to the brute force method of figuring something out (trying all possible permutations of action), and keeping those that work.... which is similar to how we do initial problem solving. We keep the behaviors that are perceived as beneficial.
 
Ohh, not on purpose. But now that I think about it, I wouldn't want to get the HH name that close to a comment about <what I said>... just in case. I'm going to wash my keyboard...

Offering a link to a free resource for scientific information on evolutionary biology (what Finding Truth claims to want to learn about), in your mind, equates to sticking your head in a toilet? What's really bothering you?

Well, I edited out that post after I saw dx713's post requesting that the poop derail be stopped.


If you want to know whats REALLY bothering me... maybe another thread would be appropriate. :D Get all nimbly bimbly, chasing a thread around...

And you really don't get the HH humor? (no need to reply, this is a derail)

 
What about a few analogies for FT?

Evolution might be explained through comparison to the brute force method of figuring something out (trying all possible permutations of action), and keeping those that work.... which is similar to how we do initial problem solving. We keep the behaviors that are perceived as beneficial.
But evolution doesn't try ALL the permutations of a gene pool. And 'try' is kinda saying there's an intelligence and a choice.

Some permutations arise. Some of them work better than others. The better working ones show up in the survivors more often than the worse working ones.

Evolution doesn't strive to find the best solution. Just one that works a little better than any others that have been tried.
 
What about a few analogies for FT?

Evolution might be explained through comparison to the brute force method of figuring something out (trying all possible permutations of action), and keeping those that work.... which is similar to how we do initial problem solving. We keep the behaviors that are perceived as beneficial.
But evolution doesn't try ALL the permutations of a gene pool. And 'try' is kinda saying there's an intelligence and a choice.
I'm not aiming at either. ;)
Some permutations arise. Some of them work better than others. The better working ones show up in the survivors more often than the worse working ones.

Evolution doesn't strive to find the best solution. Just one that works a little better than any others that have been tried.
Well, technically evolution doesn't try anything, it's the consequence of the actions of what exists. Whether or not what exists is trying is a matter of knowledge- not of perspective, or opinion. Atheism is one of the many things being tried out by the primordial energy of all. Uh, hmm... I like the humming noise I now hear.
 
Wikipedia's Introduction to evolution would be a good place to start.
You can navigate from link to link and spend the day there researching the words in the text you don't understand.
wikipedia said:
Simple overview
* Life forms reproduce and therefore have a tendency to become more numerous.
* The offspring differs from the parent in minor random ways.
* If the differences are helpful, the offspring is more likely to survive and reproduce.
* This means that more offspring in the next generation will have the helpful difference.
* These differences accumulate resulting in changes within the population.
* Over time, populations branch off to become new species as they become separated.
* This process is responsible for the many diverse life forms in the world.
 
Could someone enlighten me of the basic understanding evolutionary concepts, maybe you could do it on my blog "The chicken or the egg which came first "

I would appreciate it very much, That is why I came to Free Thinking to get it from the horses mouth so to speak.
I dunno. The blog is unwieldy for a conversation.
And your basic understanding is way, way off. There's a lot to cover.

But for example, cocks and hens do not evolve as individuals. Gene pools evolve. Strains of a species go through changes together. Your question about how the chicken evolves and how the cockerel evolves at the same time is just so ill-wrought it's not even wrong.

"Strains of a species go through changes together"
That is not evidence, those are only words.

I ask you is this, did you you accepted information with evidence or because an authority on the subject said so, without really scrutinising the autorites evidence, if this is so, do not let authority dictate their terms, stay a free thinker, and do not accept it until you have sufficient evidence to be completely convinced, and then always leave the subject open for future greater understanding.

In science there should never be closure because of the complexity in our visible existence is so great there's always something new to put into the equation.

I thought when I came to this site that I would be speaking to people who believed in evolution.

Who will have investigated to see if it is true, and have the evidence that convinced them of that and have the evidence at hand. If not I can wait for the evidence to be presented at a future date.
 
"Strains of a species go through changes together"
That is not evidence, those are only words.
What, exactly, did you expect to get on a discussion board? Words and/or....what?


And, really, what's the point of producing evidence at this point, if you don't understand the concepts we're discussing?


I ask you is this, did you you accepted information with evidence or because an authority on the subject said so, without really scrutinising the autorites evidence, if this is so,
It's not so. The evidence of any science is not just something some guy wrote. LOTS of guys write about it. And lots of lots of lots of guys scrutinize the evidence they offer, and try to reproduce the observations they made, and criticize the methodology, and show any errors and in the end we have computers. Or heavier-than-air flying ships. Or vaccines. Or evolutionary theory. That's how science works.
So while i may not bet my life on the work of one individual, i'm talking to you via the internet because of the efforts of the whole industry and the functions of the scientific method.

Is this the general thrust of your thesis? Not to offer evidence foryour claims, but to cast anyone that disagrees with you in doubt? That's not a method that's going to work well, here.
do not let authority dictate their terms, stay a free thinker, and do not accept it until you have sufficient evidence to be completely convinced, and then always leave the subject open for future greater understanding.
Well, yes. That's a key point of science, that it must be falsifiable.
Do you have anything to falsify evolutionary theory?
You don't appear, so far, to actually understand evolutionary theory, so you don't appear, so far, to have much of a leg to stand on when you talk about evidence.

But, hey, we're all interested in seeing you try.
In science there should never be closure because of the complexity in our visible existence is so great there's always something new to put into the equation.
No. Not because of complexity.
Or because of simplicity.
There's always a chance that every experiment conducted to date may have been one big coincidence and everything we think we know is wrong. But being overimpressed by complexity is a major failing for many creationists.

Unless and until you can show that complexity demands intelligence.
I thought when I came to this site that I would be speaking to people who believed in evolution.
Nope.
I reserve 'believe' for things i think are true without evidence for them.
This is not how i came to accept evolutionary theory.
Or evolution.
Who will have investigated to see if it is true, and have the evidence that convinced them of that and have the evidence at hand.
If you really want to be educated on evolution, but not willing to accept 'those are only words' on a discussoin board, see your local university. Or bookstore. Or a museum. There is tons of evidence for evolution.
 
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What about a few analogies for FT?

Evolution might be explained through comparison to the brute force method of figuring something out (trying all possible permutations of action), and keeping those that work.... which is similar to how we do initial problem solving. We keep the behaviors that are perceived as beneficial.
But evolution doesn't try ALL the permutations of a gene pool. And 'try' is kinda saying there's an intelligence and a choice.

Some permutations arise. Some of them work better than others. The better working ones show up in the survivors more often than the worse working ones.

Evolution doesn't strive to find the best solution. Just one that works a little better than any others that have been tried. [Emphasis added]

So "try" personifies evolution, but "strive" is just fine? ;)
 
What about a few analogies for FT?

Evolution might be explained through comparison to the brute force method of figuring something out (trying all possible permutations of action), and keeping those that work.... which is similar to how we do initial problem solving. We keep the behaviors that are perceived as beneficial.
But evolution doesn't try ALL the permutations of a gene pool. And 'try' is kinda saying there's an intelligence and a choice.

Some permutations arise. Some of them work better than others. The better working ones show up in the survivors more often than the worse working ones.

Evolution doesn't strive to find the best solution. Just one that works a little better than any others that have been tried. [Emphasis added]

So "try" personifies evolution, but "strive" is just fine? ;)
Exactly.


Dammit.
 
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