For Christians, define god

[steve_bank]

What is god? female, male, or otrher?
Where did god come from, did he, she, or it always exist?
When god created the universe, out of what did he, she, or it make it from?
When god creates something are there rules or laws similar to science?
Does god have thoughts? From the bible god can certainly be angry and feel love.
Is god a being with inner workings, is there an energy source?

 

[Lion IRC]

1. Gender neutral but typically presents attributes of maleness (if that matters).
2. Didn't come from anywhere.
3. "Out of" nothing. (It's a quantum thingy)
4. Yes. He makes rules. (Eg. Gravity has no free will. God does.)
5. Yes. Logos.
6. No. God isn't a machine you can dismantle.



Now, when atheist proselytisers ask me to define God my first thought is...
Shouldn't atheists be the ones defining what it is they disbelieve?

 

[Rhea]

Now, when atheist proselytisers ask me to define God my first thought is...
Shouldn't atheists be the ones defining what it is they disbelieve?

They typically do. Generally that is the main path of deconversion. When a theist defines their god(dess)(es) and realizes somethign doesn’t add up, and the onion peels away when if that’s not believable, then this other becomes not believable,,, until the god dissolves under the eye of scrutiny. Then they realize there are other things they believed that are not true.

Until they can say, “I have discovered that I don’t actually believe in this defined thing, and that one, and that one...until there are none left under the supersition umbrella that are believable at all.

 

[abaddon]

Shouldn't atheists be the ones defining what it is they disbelieve?

If I'm hiking in the woods, must I actively remind myself the things I don't believe in, like ghosts, are not there? No, I don't bother. I like what IS there well-enough.

If I went to some strange culture and they had a god named Zimbo, do I define the god and then actively disbelieve it? No. The people who believe in the god do the defining, and inevitably its whatever their culture input into their heads. Same principle works with observing Christians.

Atheism is the default state when you don't pile on excess beliefs. Gods are a display of a tendency among humans to turn psychological wants/feelings/experiences into metaphysical entities.

 

[skepticalbip]

........snip...........
Shouldn't atheists be the ones defining what it is they disbelieve?

That is easy. I disbelieve that for which there is no evidence.

For example:
. I disbelieve that ancient aliens are responsible for Earth's ancient megalithic structures even though there are many books claiming that they were.

. I disbelieve that the universe was created six thousand years ago even though there is a book that has been interpreted as claiming it was.

. etc., etc.

Though I could be convinced with actual evidence.

ETA:
I could ask why you choose to believe in the particular god and Biblical stories that you do while disbelieving in the thousands of others that are available for you to believe in. We both disbelieve in a hell of a lot of gods and religious stories - I disbelieve only one more than you.

 

[Juma]

........snip...........
Shouldn't atheists be the ones defining what it is they disbelieve?

That is easy. I disbelieve that for which there is no evidence.

For example:
. I disbelieve that ancient aliens are responsible for Earth's ancient megalithic structures even though there are many books claiming that they were.

. I disbelieve that the universe was created six thousand years ago even though there is a book that has been interpreted as claiming it was.

. etc., etc.

Though I could be convinced with actual evidence.

ETA:
I could ask why you choose to believe in the particular god and Biblical stories that you do while disbelieving in the thousands of others that are available for you to believe in.

Because he have had some hallucinations of God talking to him...

 

[James Brown]

Now, when atheist proselytisers ask me to define God my first thought is...
Shouldn't atheists be the ones defining what it is they disbelieve?

If Bob said, "Blarg exists and if you don't give me money, Blarg will give you leukemia within a year." If Janice said, "I don't believe you," does it now fall to Janice to define what she doesn't believe?

Besides, a definition does not mean evidence. A child can define Santa Claus, and even describe him with great detail, including the color of his clothes and boots.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Now, when atheist proselytisers ask me to define God my first thought is...
Shouldn't atheists be the ones defining what it is they disbelieve?

As an atheist, I find the Bible defines God. God is good. God is merciful, God is just. God is fair. God is compassionate. God is a being with will, intelligence, and on and on. The basics as defined by the Bible. Then we can discuss if God lives up to his claimed attributes and so on. The God of the pest religion of Christianity that tens of millions believe in.

 

[Random Person]

I wonder if there are Hindu atheists? I assume there are but I've never knowingly met one. Do they spend years claiming Vishnu doesn't exist?

 

[Juma]

I wonder if there are Hindu atheists? I assume there are but I've never knowingly met one. Do they spend years claiming Vishnu doesn't exist?

Probably. There are muslim atheists, christian atheists, jewish atheists etc..
But usually you say atheist jews, atheis muslims etc...

 

[braces_for_impact]

To theists I would make the following request, in addition to your answers, please state how you know that what you say is true. Extra points for supporting details.

ETA: Can we stop with the shifting of the burden of proof? I expect better from theists that hang out here, this isn't Rapture Ready for fuck's sake.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I define god as a space spook. More importantly I wish to know why there is god instead of nothing.

 

[Rhea]

ETA: Can we stop with the shifting of the burden of proof? I expect better from theists that hang out here, this isn't Rapture Ready for fuck's sake.

Second this. I've started a new thread - moderators, can you move the derail posts to it, plz?

 

[steve_bank]

1. Gender neutral but typically presents attributes of maleness (if that matters).
2. Didn't come from anywhere.
3. "Out of" nothing. (It's a quantum thingy)
4. Yes. He makes rules. (Eg. Gravity has no free will. God does.)
5. Yes. Logos.
6. No. God isn't a machine you can dismantle.



Now, when atheist proselytisers ask me to define God my first thought is...
Shouldn't atheists be the ones defining what it is they disbelieve?

#1 souds like transgender issues.

So god creates the laws by which its thought processes work? It is not in the bible. Did god speak to you or did an angel appear? Maybe a burning bush? How do you know how god works.

I was asking not about gravity, but how god works. God has fellings and emotions from the Torah. Implies processes.

As in a court room drama, the burden of proff of your claim is on you.

This took me to an unexpected place. Realization the Abrahamic god as originaly used was simply a reflection of humans, without science. Thoughts and action just manifest with nothing behind it. God, aka man, just is with no explanation.

I am not looking to make anyone atheist. If Christianity in the USA was not so intrusive and overbearning I would not care what Christians believe.

 

[Keith&Co.]

What is god? female, male, or otrher?
Where did god come from, did he, she, or it always exist?
When god created the universe, out of what did he, she, or it make it from?
When god creates something are there rules or laws similar to science?
Does god have thoughts? From the bible god can certainly be angry and feel love.
Is god a being with inner workings, is there an energy source?

From what I remember of Self-Mutation's postings, the answers to all of these questions varies depending on the needs of the agendas. Any identification of a inconsistency in the godservations, or flat out contradictory qualities reported for the godthing are just 'mysteries' of the divine, not understandable by any mortal.

 

[Lion IRC]

1. Gender neutral but typically presents attributes of maleness (if that matters).
2. Didn't come from anywhere.
3. "Out of" nothing. (It's a quantum thingy)
4. Yes. He makes rules. (Eg. Gravity has no free will. God does.)
5. Yes. Logos.
6. No. God isn't a machine you can dismantle.



Now, when atheist proselytisers ask me to define God my first thought is...
Shouldn't atheists be the ones defining what it is they disbelieve?

Lion makes a series of claims about what god is. None of it is in the Torah. It is all in Lion's head, filling in the blanks with imagination. In all seriousness for a theist to consciously accept that would be devastating, crushing. A life long belief disappears and the crutches are gone.

Naked and afraid. It is why otherwise rational skeptical theists fight tooth and nail to maintain the illusion.

Lion is not very good at apologetics.

I am happy to argue the case that each of my responses to your questions can be substantiated as scriptural. Wanna do a bible study with me? Here? Now?

Let's start with my point #5
You think I'm going to get burned as a heretic for claiming God is Logos?
How about #3? Creation by fiat. You think that ain't in the Torah?
Where else do you claim I have erred #2 That God didn't "come" from anywhere. He has always existed.

You are guilty of some pretty disingenuous point scoring attempts pal.
You ask questions framed in very unbiblical language like #6 and then pounce on me complaining my answer isn't literally in step with scriptural language. (Whinny and lame)

I say God makes rules (#4) and you dare to say "you wont find that in the Torah"
Are you for real? Are you aware the Torah include Leviticus and Deuteronomy?

 

[Jobar]

I wonder if there are Hindu atheists? I assume there are but I've never knowingly met one. Do they spend years claiming Vishnu doesn't exist?

I don't see him around much any more, but Aupmanyav was an atheist who was also a Hindu. (There are sects of Hinduism that are explicitly atheist, though of course most believe in the literal existence of some subset of their many gods.)

You may find it hard to conceive, but I have met atheist Christians; they consider themselves 'culturally' Christian, although they don't believe in the literal existence of God.

 

[bilby]

I wonder if there are Hindu atheists? I assume there are but I've never knowingly met one. Do they spend years claiming Vishnu doesn't exist?

I don't see him around much any more, but Aupmanyav was an atheist who was also a Hindu. (There are sects of Hinduism that are explicitly atheist, though of course most believe in the literal existence of some subset of their many gods.)

You may find it hard to conceive, but I have met atheist Christians; they consider themselves 'culturally' Christian, although they don't believe in the literal existence of God.

There have been Church of England bishops who fit that description.

 

[steve_bank]

is not out of line for Lion, say what what will on the forum short of chronic personal attacks.

It is one of a series of attempts at a turnabout on atheists.

Trump is an expert on shifting the debate to avoid answering questions, an old tactic.

If you ask me to believe in something whatever it is the onus is on you to define what you are talking about.

Look at the Greek and Roman gods. Each with specific powers and attributes. undoudedly a reflection of human traits in an idealized form...and then there is the Abrahamic god.

 

[Lion IRC]

How about - whatever god you claim exists, I claim it doesn't exist. The goalposts of what a person means when they say the word "god" shift so rapidly and are so inconsistent between any two people that any stance we take in regards to what swe're saying is fictional is rendered irrelevant as soon as the next person enters the conversation. If you have a concept of God, my position is that your concept is wrong.

This is a much more reasonable response because it at least shows a willingness to engage with the actual definition offered by the biblical theist (Christian) instead of invisible pink unicorns or farming goats etc etc