For Christians:If god exists why must you prove it?

[Learner]

Have you heard any atheist threating you that you will BURN IN ETERNAL FIRE if you doesnt believe what he believes? Have you?

Come on Juma , If only there was an equivelant to "hell fire" by an "almighty atheist" then maybe. Its understandable why atheists don't do the above. (S.T.Obvious)

He says, "No, I haven't."
But he doesn't seem to wanrt to understand the question.

Its understood ..no probs with that.

 

[Rhea]

I didn't choose to be an atheist. I failed to come up with any belief in Theism. Atheism is what happens automatically when theism fails.

I was born this way and nothing ever happened to change it. (despite spending my first 12 years in churches and bible schools, where I spent my time looking around me and wondering, "wait, people believe this? What? How? Why? This is so weird.")
Not a "choice."

You chose not to be Christian and..... you used some analytic processes to determine it wasn't for you. Now a baby just born well ... what does he/she know?

No. Don't tell me what I thought.

I said it was not a "choice". You can't "choose" to believe something that you don't believe is true.
You can't walk out into 100°F temps and "choose" to believe that it's freezing cold. It's just not-cold.
I did not "choose" to not date women. It just never ever came up as an idea. Not even a flicker of interest that I had to "choose" against.
I did not "choose" to believe that werewolves don't exist. They just don't have any evidence to convince me that they do.
I do not "choose" to not believe in Santa Claus. I do not "choose" to not be convinced that a hurricane is coming tomorrow. I do not "choose" to be unconvinced that Sandy Hook was a hoax. I simply have no reason to believe those things, the belief process never got started. I never had to turn it off, it just never started.

Don't be a dick and try to tell me what I think. What are you, an authoritarian?

 

[Learner]

So, you define atheism as a positive choice to reject God, huh?

Then I am not an atheist.
I chose to leave my first church, but that was in order to find a church with a better grasp on the God i believed in.
Years of searching later, i came to the conclusion that none of them had anything but myths to offer, often self contradictory, and in opposition to the world i experienced.
After that observation, i came to realize i no longer had any belief in any deity. I thought that was atheism. A null state on the believe-in-gods circuit.
If it isn't, though, what IS it?

The initial bit previously highlighted .... BORN Atheist!

 

[Learner]

No. Don't tell me what I thought.

I said it was not a "choice". You can't "choose" to believe something that you don't believe is true.
You can't walk out into 100°F temps and "choose" to believe that it's freezing cold. It's just not-cold.
I did not "choose" to believe that werewolves don't exist. They just don't have any evidence to convince me that they do.
I do not "choose" to not believe in Santa Claus. I do not "choose" to not be convinced that a hurricane is coming tomorrow. I do not "choose" to be unconvinced that Sandy Hook was a hoax. I simply have no reason to believe those things, the belief process never got started. I never had to turn it off, it just never started.

Don't be a dick and try to tell me what I think. What are you, an authoritarian?

Could I then exchange "choice" for "decided" ...or "made-up-your-mind ?

The last line indicates in your quote some inner troubling. It was not my intention to be offensive (if thats what you felt).

 

[Rhea]

No. Don't tell me what I thought.

I said it was not a "choice". You can't "choose" to believe something that you don't believe is true.
You can't walk out into 100°F temps and "choose" to believe that it's freezing cold. It's just not-cold.
I did not "choose" to believe that werewolves don't exist. They just don't have any evidence to convince me that they do.
I do not "choose" to not believe in Santa Claus. I do not "choose" to not be convinced that a hurricane is coming tomorrow. I do not "choose" to be unconvinced that Sandy Hook was a hoax. I simply have no reason to believe those things, the belief process never got started. I never had to turn it off, it just never started.

Don't be a dick and try to tell me what I think. What are you, an authoritarian?

Could I then exchange "choice" for "decided"?

Nope. I did not decide.
Belief just never started.
Null state.

You can say whatever you want for YOUR story. You have to take me at my word for mine because it is THE best evidence you have. You don't get to make up or fabricate evidence. (notwithstanding that's a thing Christians do.)

 

[Rhea]

Could I then exchange "choice" for "decided" ...or "made-up-your-mind ?

I'm going to try to help you with this.

If there a robbery in my neighbor's house, and I didn't see anything, have I "decided" to not be a witness? Have I made a "choice" to not be a witness? Did I "make up my mind" to not be a witness?

Nope. I am not a witness. I didn't see anything. Fact followed by fact.

 

[Rhea]

Don't be a dick and try to tell me what I think. What are you, an authoritarian?

The last line indicates in your quote some inner agression. It was not my intention to be offensive.

Dear Learner - it is always offensive when someone tells you an experience of their life and you tell them they are wrong.
And that was not inner aggression. It was external pointed straight at the guy who says, "oh, let me tell you what you really thought."

 

[Learner]

Nope. I did not decide.
Belief just never started.
Null state.

You can say whatever you want for YOUR story. You have to take me at my word for mine because it is THE best evidence you have. You don't get to make up or fabricate evidence. (notwithstanding that's a thing Christians do.)

I don't think we can go further with the decide thing but do you hold the false notion you were born atheist?

- - - Updated - - -

Don't be a dick and try to tell me what I think. What are you, an authoritarian?

The last line indicates in your quote some inner agression. It was not my intention to be offensive.

Dear Learner - it is always offensive when someone tells you an experience of their life and you tell them they are wrong.
And that was not inner aggression. It was external pointed straight at the guy who says, "oh, let me tell you what you really thought."

I know this particular style ..or rather technique (so to speak) blowing up things bigger than they really are. Useful I suppose in debates in a loud sort of way. (like responses to Lion and Tigers)

 

[Keith&Co.]

So, you define atheism as a positive choice to reject God, huh?

Then I am not an atheist.
I chose to leave my first church, but that was in order to find a church with a better grasp on the God i believed in.
Years of searching later, i came to the conclusion that none of them had anything but myths to offer, often self contradictory, and in opposition to the world i experienced.
After that observation, i came to realize i no longer had any belief in any deity. I thought that was atheism. A null state on the believe-in-gods circuit.
If it isn't, though, what IS it?

The initial bit previously highlighted .... BORN Atheist!

well, yeah, that's what i thought. Born without theism, trained up in my parents' belief, then lost all theism....again. So, now you agree?

 

[Keith&Co.]

I don't think we can go further with the decide thing

so, you think she's lying, but you don't want to antagonize her any further. Yeah, this putting words in someone's mouth is fun.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Learner
True but the notion that "people are born atheist" is false!

the notion that atheism must be a choice is falser!

 

[Learner]

well, yeah, that's what i thought. Born without theism, trained up in my parents' belief, then lost all theism....again. So, now you agree?

I see you were born "rejecting" the idea of theism?
I don't think we agree.

 

[Rhea]

I don't think we can go further with the decide thing but do you hold the false notion you were born atheist?

Your question does not make sense. You think people are born believing in god(dess)(es)? Which ones?

Dear Learner - it is always offensive when someone tells you an experience of their life and you tell them they are wrong.
And that was not inner aggression. It was external pointed straight at the guy who says, "oh, let me tell you what you really thought."

I know this particular style ..or rather technique (so to speak) blowing up things bigger than they really are. Useful I suppose in debates in a loud sort of way. (like responses to Lion and Tigers)

This is not a style or a technique. You did something Dickish, I helped you out by letting you know.
You'd rather no-one told you? You're that type? Or rather the type that when someone tells you, you label it "inner aggression" ("your problem not mine") and you just figure you never need to be told all that because you're above it? I figured when you said it wasn't your intention to be offensive, that you'd be someone who'd want to know. But if by "it wasn't my intention to be offensive," you actually meant, "I wasn't offensive," then... Okay, if you're the kind who doesn't want to be told when his fly is down, then I won't bother. ~shrug~ no skin off my nose.

 

[Learner]

I don't think we can go further with the decide thing

so, you think she's lying, but you don't want to antagonize her any further. Yeah, this putting words in someone's mouth is fun.

The worse I would say is she's mistaken not call anyone liars. (someone on the thread was called one ..I think)

 

[Rhea]

I don't think we can go further with the decide thing

so, you think she's lying, but you don't want to antagonize her any further. Yeah, this putting words in someone's mouth is fun.

The worse I would say is she's mistaken not call anyone liars. (someone on the thread was called one ..I think)

You think I'm "mistaken" about my own life?
Do you have a colossal ego?

- - - Updated - - -

Could I then exchange "choice" for "decided" ...or "made-up-your-mind ?

I'm going to try to help you with this.

If there a robbery in my neighbor's house, and I didn't see anything, have I "decided" to not be a witness? Have I made a "choice" to not be a witness? Did I "make up my mind" to not be a witness?

Nope. I am not a witness. I didn't see anything. Fact followed by fact.

So Learner, which of these statements is true, then?

1. Have I "decided" to not be a witness?
2. Have I made a "choice" to not be a witness?
3. Did I "make up my mind" to not be a witness?
4. I am not a witness. I didn't see anything. Fact followed by fact.

 

[Learner]

Your question does not make sense. You think people are born believing in god(dess)(es)? Which ones?

Did it not occur to you that you're born without beliefs or ideologies ?

This is not a style or a technique. You did something Dickish, I helped you out by letting you know.
You'd rather no-one told you? You're that type? Or rather the type that when someone tells you, you label it "inner aggression" ("your problem not mine") and you just figure you never need to be told all that because you're above it? I figured when you said it wasn't your intention to be offensive, that you'd be someone who'd want to know. But if by "it wasn't my intention to be offensive," you actually meant, "I wasn't offensive," then... Okay, if you're the kind who doesn't want to be told when his fly is down, then I won't bother. ~shrug~ no skin off my nose.

We're off the topic and its all about learner.

(Sorry bit tired got to get up in a few hours...watch this space)

 

[Rhea]

I don't think we can go further with the decide thing but do you hold the false notion you were born atheist?

Did it not occur to you that you're born without beliefs or ideologies ?

I think your algorithm has a glitch.
Do you think people are born atheists or not born atheists?

 

[Learner]

You think I'm "mistaken" about my own life?
Do you have a colossal ego?

just this point before bed.
Its just an opinion as you would have of me (like the underlined perhaps). I did not call you a liar is my point.

 

[steve_bank]

Born atheist? As someone said which came first the theistt or the atheist?

Archaeology would say all ancient cultures developed a sense of an afterlife and controlling supernatural powers. Aristotle I believe was an animist, rocks and trees had spirits. The supernatural predates Christianity and the Hebrews that came before were only generally but not exclusively unique in their form of monotheism.

From a show that summarizes all biblical archeological evidence to date, it appears that the early Semites had both male and female deity and the female got dropped.I haven't seen a specific history of what wee call atheism. The Greeks had humerous variations and beads woven into philosophy about overarching powers and the like.

Christians think they are unique but they are not. It became dominant in the west because of the way geo politics went and the result of a few major Christian-Muslim battles.

I interpret the ancient Greek philosophers' use of a god concept more as social metaphor and talking point.

Being an atheist today can be a hindrance depending on social and work situations. Up through the 1950s coming out of the closet so to speak could be as risky as coming out as gay.

 

[Rhea]

You think I'm "mistaken" about my own life?
Do you have a colossal ego?

I did not call you a liar is my point.

Rule number one. When you find yourself in a deep hole, stop digging.
Sure, yeah, you didn’t call me a liar. You just said I was “mistaken “ about my own life story. Sure, sure. That’s better.