For Christians:If god exists why must you prove it?

[Rhea]

I'll admit that Christian proselytising quantitavely outdoes the atheist version.

You should admit it before you write it and not try to pretend they are equal, because that is lying.

But....
a) There are a LOT more Christians than atheists
b) According to you there shouldn't be ANY billboards promoting atheism non-stamp collecting

There are none in the absence of Christian (or theistic) oppression.

But more to the point, I wrote, "Atheists do not buy thousands of billboards. " and I am correct in that.
You tried to change what I said and then refute your change. There's a term for that, if only I can remember it. Tip of my tongue....


Meanwhile, it's a deceit on your part to continue to try to refute the strawman you built of the one item on my list while pretending I never said the rest. "I didn't have any milk."

You may be fooling yourself, but not the rest of us. It's kind of a thing that Christians do, isn't it. "Pay no attention to the Man Behind the Curtain!" Good job, Lion. True to form demonstrating how vacuous Christianity is.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Many people who "believe in god" actually are just hoping that there's a god. They don't really need to deconvert, rather they just eventually realize that there are no gods. This would have happened much earlier in human history except that until less than a dozen generations ago, belief was typically enforced at pain of death.

"Deconversion" is happening more today because there's more information available about a given person's religious opinions. Belief is simply more easily examined at least in western societies.

Kids aren't taught about all the different religions so they are easily duped into thinking there are gods. They're certainly not taught, unconditionally, that maybe gods are real and that maybe gods aren't real. Far from it. If they were taught "both sides of the debate" belief in gods would be as common in adults as belief in fairies.

 

[Lion IRC]

Which came first, the theist seeking converts or the atheist rejecting doctrine?

Ask an expert

I never became an atheist, so I couldn't say. People are born atheist.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Which came first, the theist seeking converts or the atheist rejecting doctrine?

Ask an expert

I never became an atheist, so I couldn't say. People are born atheist.

If I never had cancer am I a cancer survivor?

 

[DBT]

Which came first, the theist seeking converts or the atheist rejecting doctrine?

Ask an expert

I never became an atheist, so I couldn't say. People are born atheist.

Nobody is born believing in the teachings of Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, etc, etc.

 

[Jobar]

Lion does have a point.

Y'know, as an atheist, I have to admit that sometimes I'm embarrassed and chagrined at how loud and demanding we are here in the US. I mean, look at all the atheist churches, down here in Georgia there's at least one on every street corner. And the message boards out in front of most of them- why, some of the stuff I've seen urging believers to deconvert, and threatening them with non-supernatural punishment before they die, it's simply disgraceful! Not to mention all the red laws forcing Christians to get drunk every Sunday, and requiring any business owner to keep their business open on whatever day they consider holy, and the fact that nobody who announces their theistic belief stands a chance of being elected to public office- terrible, just terrible!

Just the other morning I was awakened on my day off by these angry-looking and scruffy young men, smelling of booze, who came to my door insisting that I listen to them talk about how great it is to disbelieve, and trying to give me copies of works by Robert Ingersoll. And the huge media conglomerates which do nothing but broadcast the meaninglessness of religion, and the relativity of morals, and the preeminence of science, by radio, TV, and print, 24/7/365- I can well understand how some believers might find that overbearing and unfair.

So, given the shy and retiring nature of believers in this country, I have to agree that we atheists should just shut the hell up!

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Agreed, Jobar.

As a kid I was constantly being dragged off to listen to atheist preachers and even made to attend an atheist elementary school for 8 years. The nerve of those people. When someone died there were services invoking the great atheist cause complete with song and choreography. I was even told that unless I agreed with atheist faith that my own children would be rejected in their afterlives by the great Doodly Doo and instead spend eternity with his mad cousin.

Fortunately I was able to escape this atheist bullying that was everywhere and we are all living happily ever after.

 

[steve_bank]

Agreed, Jobar.

As a kid I was constantly being dragged off to listen to atheist preachers and even made to attend an atheist elementary school for 8 years. The nerve of those people. When someone died there were services invoking the great atheist cause complete with song and choreography. I was even told that unless I agreed with atheist faith that my own children would be rejected in their afterlives by the great Doodly Doo and instead spend eternity with his mad cousin.

Fortunately I was able to escape this atheist bullying that was everywhere and we are all living happily ever after.

I thought I was the only one....

 

[Keith&Co.]

And then there are the antichaplains. I was never on a command big enough to have its own, but there was always one attached to the Group or Squadron over us.
Coming aboard on Unholy days, grabbing the All Call and talking about how this was a perfect day to remember the central theme of Nothing, invoking Nothing to look out for us, hoping we failed the mandatory spirituality testing, and carefully stating the protections afforded by the First Ammendment....

 

[Lion IRC]

I see the atheist post count growing. All very interesting stuff about how non-stamp collectors don't ever defend the total inaction of non-stamp-collecting. (No global atheism conventions Jobar?

But with that growing word count, you're proving my point. You make it appear as if atheists are the ones who need to defend something. If you don't, then let it go and stick to the topic.

Your Op was very specific about some supposed obligation Christians have to prove God exists and allegedly getting hostile at those who aren't persuaded.
Name some self-professed Christian here at TTF who you believe interpret their Christian calling this way.

 

[Juma]

I see the atheist post count growing. All very interesting stuff about how non-stamp collectors don't ever defend the total inaction of non-stamp-collecting. (No global atheism conventions Jobar?

But with that growing word count, you're proving my point. You make it appear as if atheists are the ones who need to defend something. If you don't, then let it go and stick to the topic.

Your Op was very specific about some supposed obligation Christians have to prove God exists and allegedly getting hostile at those who aren't persuaded.
Name some self-professed Christian here at TTF who you believe interpret their Christian calling this way.

Have you heard any atheist threating you that you will BURN IN ETERNAL FIRE if you doesnt believe what he believes? Have you?

 

[Rhea]

Lion does have a point.

Y'know, as an atheist, I have to admit that sometimes I'm embarrassed and chagrined at how loud and demanding we are here in the US. I mean, look at all the atheist churches, down here in Georgia there's at least one on every street corner. And the message boards out in front of most of them- why, some of the stuff I've seen urging believers to deconvert, and threatening them with non-supernatural punishment before they die, it's simply disgraceful! Not to mention all the red laws forcing Christians to get drunk every Sunday, and requiring any business owner to keep their business open on whatever day they consider holy, and the fact that nobody who announces their theistic belief stands a chance of being elected to public office- terrible, just terrible!

Just the other morning I was awakened on my day off by these angry-looking and scruffy young men, smelling of booze, who came to my door insisting that I listen to them talk about how great it is to disbelieve, and trying to give me copies of works by Robert Ingersoll. And the huge media conglomerates which do nothing but broadcast the meaninglessness of religion, and the relativity of morals, and the preeminence of science, by radio, TV, and print, 24/7/365- I can well understand how some believers might find that overbearing and unfair.

So, given the shy and retiring nature of believers in this country, I have to agree that we atheists should just shut the hell up!

wow, you get Ingersoll? I only get Sam Kinison.

 

[Rhea]

I see the atheist post count growing. All very interesting stuff about how non-stamp collectors don't ever defend the total inaction of non-stamp-collecting. (No global atheism conventions Jobar?

But with that growing word count, you're proving my point. You make it appear as if atheists are the ones who need to defend something. If you don't, then let it go and stick to the topic.

Your Op was very specific about some supposed obligation Christians have to prove God exists and allegedly getting hostile at those who aren't persuaded.
Name some self-professed Christian here at TTF who you believe interpret their Christian calling this way.

LOL I love you Lion, you're a riot.

"Let's stick to that subset of Christianity that hangs out on an atheist board, which I think is just me and Tigers!, because I'm really not comfortable owning the rest of them. (Though I only actually have 18 months here, so I'm assuming that what I see today is all that has existed for the past 20 years, but assumptions are how Christians roll, amirite?")

 

[Keith&Co.]

Oh, look. THE TOPIC lion wants to stick to is not the OP, but lion's response to it.

And not anyone else's response to Lion's response...

Let's only talk about what the Christain approves of for a topic, in the manner the Christain wants to, because he's sure we mischaracterize the Christains as overbearing....

 

[Learner]

Ask an expert

Nobody is born believing in the teachings of Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, etc, etc.

True but the notion that "people are born atheist" is false!

You become atheists i.e. choose to be atheist after some time, learning and gaining understanding . The obvious to say: Born with "nowt" experience or knowledge!

 

[Learner]

Have you heard any atheist threating you that you will BURN IN ETERNAL FIRE if you doesnt believe what he believes? Have you?

Come on Juma , If only there was an equivelant to "hell fire" by an "almighty atheist" then maybe. Its understandable why atheists don't do the above. (S.T.Obvious)

 

[Rhea]

Ask an expert

Nobody is born believing in the teachings of Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, etc, etc.

True but the notion that "people are born atheist" is false!

You become atheists i.e. choose to be atheist after some time, learning and gaining understanding . The obvious to say: Born with "nowt" experience or knowledge!

I didn't choose to be an atheist. I failed to come up with any belief in Theism. Atheism is what happens automatically when theism fails.

I was born this way and nothing ever happened to change it. (despite spending my first 12 years in churches and bible schools, where I spent my time looking around me and wondering, "wait, people believe this? What? How? Why? This is so weird.")
Not a "choice."

 

[Learner]

I didn't choose to be an atheist. I failed to come up with any belief in Theism. Atheism is what happens automatically when theism fails.

I was born this way and nothing ever happened to change it. (despite spending my first 12 years in churches and bible schools, where I spent my time looking around me and wondering, "wait, people believe this? What? How? Why? This is so weird.")
Not a "choice."

You chose not to be Christian and..... you used some analytic processes to determine it wasn't for you. Now a baby just born well ... what does he/she know?

 

[Keith&Co.]

Have you heard any atheist threating you that you will BURN IN ETERNAL FIRE if you doesnt believe what he believes? Have you?

Come on Juma , If only there was an equivelant to "hell fire" by an "almighty atheist" then maybe. Its understandable why atheists don't do the above. (S.T.Obvious)

He says, "No, I haven't."
But he doesn't seem to wanrt to understand the question.

 

[Keith&Co.]

I didn't choose to be an atheist. I failed to come up with any belief in Theism. Atheism is what happens automatically when theism fails.

I was born this way and nothing ever happened to change it. (despite spending my first 12 years in churches and bible schools, where I spent my time looking around me and wondering, "wait, people believe this? What? How? Why? This is so weird.")
Not a "choice."

You chose not to be Christian and..... you used some analytic processes to determine it wasn't for you. Now a baby just born well ... what does he/she know?

So, you define atheism as a positive choice to reject God, huh?

Then I am not an atheist.
I chose to leave my first church, but that was in order to find a church with a better grasp on the God i believed in.
Years of searching later, i came to the conclusion that none of them had anything but myths to offer, often self contradictory, and in opposition to the world i experienced.
After that observation, i came to realize i no longer had any belief in any deity. I thought that was atheism. A null state on the believe-in-gods circuit.
If it isn't, though, what IS it?