Fraud in Minnesomalia

[Toni]

Bullshit.

If you have actual quotes that would support your claim, post them. Because right now it looks like you're posting an Ad Hominem attack on a Strawman Argument you created by misrepresenting what Toni has posted about this particular case and about fraud in general.

Not bullshit. Here is where Toni downplays responsibility of Somalis for fraud, saying that they may not have known it was fraud due to cultural differences. She even thinks that these Somali fraudsters are being "victimized by others".

I am NOT excusing the fraud. I dislike fraud as much as anyone. However I was attempting to explain how a fraud scheme could spread through a community, and in this case, may not have been recognized as fraud by all of those participating. There are significant cultural differences, difficulties experienced by the Somali diaspora as they fled their homeland in the wake of terrible war. I know quite well that immigrant populations are often victimized by others, including,, imo, our immigration process which is tedious and mercurial as the most flattering interpretation.

About Toni's claim that they "may not have been recognized as fraud". Toni, do you also not think that they do not recognize bribing a juror either?

My comments were speculation and offered as such. I am certain that those involved in the bribe knew it was illegal. They were caught.

Now, please look at the dates of the fraud: please note that the fraud was detected, information turned over to the FBI and people involved were arrested, tried and convicted before Trump was elected for his second term.

Trump and his groupies like to treat this as an ongoing problem in MN and unique to MN. It’s not. In fact, Trump himself is a huge fan of fraud—so long as he gets money out of the deal.

 

[laughing dog]

You’re an immigrant. So you didn’t know any better? Is that reason you concocted that malicious slander.

No, since there was no slander, malicious or otherwise.

Of course there was. Your “interpretation “ in the previous post requires that “some” means “all”.

But what is your excuse for your appalling lack of reading comprehension?

Given the above, your insult is pretty ironic.

 

[Derec]

You may have been speculating, but you are still giving a pass to a group because they are so high on the "progressive stack" (black, Muslim, immigrant).

Nobody is saying that this is the only instance of fraud. But, as the NY Times article from early in the threads explains, MN authorities looked the other way for a long time because of political correctness - they did not want to appear "racist" and "islamophobic".

 

[Toni]

Bullshit.

If you have actual quotes that would support your claim, post them. Because right now it looks like you're posting an Ad Hominem attack on a Strawman Argument you created by misrepresenting what Toni has posted about this particular case and about fraud in general.

Not bullshit. Here is where Toni downplays responsibility of Somalis for fraud, saying that they may not have known it was fraud due to cultural differences. She even thinks that these Somali fraudsters are being "victimized by others".

I am NOT excusing the fraud. I dislike fraud as much as anyone. However I was attempting to explain how a fraud scheme could spread through a community, and in this case, may not have been recognized as fraud by all of those participating. There are significant cultural differences, difficulties experienced by the Somali diaspora as they fled their homeland in the wake of terrible war. I know quite well that immigrant populations are often victimized by others, including,, imo, our immigration process which is tedious and mercurial as the most flattering interpretation.

About Toni's claim that they "may not have been recognized as fraud". Toni, do you also not think that they do not recognize bribing a juror either?

About Derec’s reading comprehension: Do you not recognize the use of the word MAY in the context in my post you are criticizing?

Do you not recognize that this fraud actually occurred during the first Trump administration?

 

[Toni]

You may have been speculating, but you are still giving a pass to a group because they are so high on the "progressive stack" (black, Muslim, immigrant).

Nobody is saying that this is the only instance of fraud. But, as the NY Times article from early in the threads explains, MN authorities looked the other way for a long time because of political correctness - they did not want to appear "racist" and "islamophobic".

I’m not giving a pass to anyone.

MN did not ‘look the other way’ for ‘a long time.’

Minnesota reported the fraud to the FBI. The DOJ prosecuted cases elated to this scheme 4 years ago!

https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/us-attorney-announces-federal-charges-against-47-defendants-250-million-feeding-our-future

 

[Harry Bosch]

Yes, the people committed the fraud, should be punished for it. However, there seems to be something extra about this that makes some people more disturbed by the fraud than others.

Or simply more eager to discuss it.

I don't know that Derec cares all that much about fraud but he's keen on posting racist flamebait like the term "Minnesomalia" to remind everyone that some of the immigrants in Minnesota are black people from Africa.

He kinda scuffs over the fact that the total number of immigrants in Minnesota amount to only 9% of the population and that immigrants from Mexico outnumber the Somali born by a 2:1 margin.

Are the immigrants from Mexico accused of committing fraud on the scale of the Somilais?
The % of the population is quite irrelevant. The scale of the alleged fraud and by whom is surely what is important?

The fact it appears fraud was committed is what's important. The scale of the apparent fraud makes it noteworthy. The alleged fraudsters being members of the immigrant community is interesting in that most immigrants don't know how to work the system like Americans born in this country, and that it harkens back to organized crime in the immigrant communities of the 20th century.

The fact it was Somali immigrants this time and not Italian, Irish, Russian, or Latin Americans immigrants isn't all that interesting.

And of course fraud only occurs in California, Minnesota and other blue states. Never happens in red states.

 

[Harry Bosch]

You may have been speculating, but you are still giving a pass to a group because they are so high on the "progressive stack" (black, Muslim, immigrant).

Nobody is saying that this is the only instance of fraud. But, as the NY Times article from early in the threads explains, MN authorities looked the other way for a long time because of political correctness - they did not want to appear "racist" and "islamophobic".

I’m not giving a pass to anyone.

MN did not ‘look the other way’ for ‘a long time.’

Minnesota reported the fraud to the FBI. The DOJ prosecuted cases elated to this scheme 4 years ago!

https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/us-attorney-announces-federal-charges-against-47-defendants-250-million-feeding-our-future

Dang I didn’t know that! The right is sooo much better at sleazy politics than the left.

 

[laughing dog]

nm


]

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

You may have been speculating, but you are still giving a pass to a group because they are so high on the "progressive stack" (black, Muslim, immigrant).

Nobody is saying that this is the only instance of fraud. But, as the NY Times article from early in the threads explains, MN authorities looked the other way for a long time because of political correctness - they did not want to appear "racist" and "islamophobic".

Allegations and facts are not the same thing.

 

[scombrid]

High on the progressive stack. Such bullshit strawmanning. Fucking Andrew Tate taint lickers. Useless fucks.

 

[Emily Lake]

Well, here’s the thing, Emily: Derec as well as our very own POTUS have harped on the fact that some Somalis were involved in a fraud initiated by a white woman, carefully leaving out the mention of the white woman. In the case of Trump his faux outrage is entirely politically motivated, as is his deployment of ICE to Minnesota because Tim Walz had the temerity to make gentle fun of Trump during the 2024 presidential race. It is not at all difficult to discover that massive amounts of fraud have been committed by people in a lot of other states, including and perhaps especially red states.

The Somali angle was just to rile up his base, with slightly more reality behind it compared with the racist allegations of black immigrants in Ohio eating people’s pets.

You're making my point for me. You're giving reasons why we should excuse or otherwise not discuss the topic... you're framing it as being entirely racist and partisan to bring it up.

 

[Emily Lake]

We must live in different realities because NO ONE defended fraud in any sense of the meaning of defend in my reality.

Toni's position is that it's not really their fault because they are just immigrants who don't know any better. As far as she is concerned, it's all some white people's fault.

Not at all! My position is that it is absolutely understandable how something ( fraud, a fondness for beer or casseroles or football) spreads in any distinct group. I think almost any ( the qualifier because I dislike absolutes) immigrant cohort is especially vulnerable to exploitation by others and also at misplacing trust and for some groups, desperation and/or anger and fear as they learn to navigate a new country. Did all of the individuals participating in the fraud realize initially that they were participating in a fraud? I don’t know the answer to that but I suspect at least some were not aware of the fraud. During COVID, a lot of people faced very serious food and housing insecurity. Fear can generate anger and can push people to take risks they normally would not. Some people come from cultures where fraud is simply another Tuesday, there is so little trust in government or its institutions. I cannot hazard a guess as to what extent, including zero, any of this played in this particular instance of fraud.

The Somali angle certainly was pushed by Trump, as he did with the false allegations about black immigrants eating pets. Trump was deliberately pushing a narrative about immigrants, especially black immigrants as red meat for his supporters.

This is galling in the face of the fact that there has been much greater fraud in many other states and get this; within the Trump administration and his own family. Remember that the Trump family perpetuated fraud against a children’s cancer charity? So, also deflection/distraction. Like a carnival magician, Trump wants the audience to look at the shiny object in his right hand and to ignore what the left hand is doing.

I am not in any way excusing intentional fraud or the damage it does to society as a whole. I don’t like it. It should not have happened anywhere by anyone, including by Trump, his family and associates and his cabinet and appointees.

Unfortunately we are living under the grip of an elected potus who thinks he’s a mob boss, enabled by a pack of hyenas who are in it for the self aggrandizement and the grift.

Again, kinda making my point.

Fraud is bad, but these poor immigrants probably didn't even know they were committing fraud and they're really just victims in all of this, and besides Trump is way worse and it's all just racist deflection anyway.

 

[Toni]

We must live in different realities because NO ONE defended fraud in any sense of the meaning of defend in my reality.

Toni's position is that it's not really their fault because they are just immigrants who don't know any better. As far as she is concerned, it's all some white people's fault.

Not at all! My position is that it is absolutely understandable how something ( fraud, a fondness for beer or casseroles or football) spreads in any distinct group. I think almost any ( the qualifier because I dislike absolutes) immigrant cohort is especially vulnerable to exploitation by others and also at misplacing trust and for some groups, desperation and/or anger and fear as they learn to navigate a new country. Did all of the individuals participating in the fraud realize initially that they were participating in a fraud? I don’t know the answer to that but I suspect at least some were not aware of the fraud. During COVID, a lot of people faced very serious food and housing insecurity. Fear can generate anger and can push people to take risks they normally would not. Some people come from cultures where fraud is simply another Tuesday, there is so little trust in government or its institutions. I cannot hazard a guess as to what extent, including zero, any of this played in this particular instance of fraud.

The Somali angle certainly was pushed by Trump, as he did with the false allegations about black immigrants eating pets. Trump was deliberately pushing a narrative about immigrants, especially black immigrants as red meat for his supporters.

This is galling in the face of the fact that there has been much greater fraud in many other states and get this; within the Trump administration and his own family. Remember that the Trump family perpetuated fraud against a children’s cancer charity? So, also deflection/distraction. Like a carnival magician, Trump wants the audience to look at the shiny object in his right hand and to ignore what the left hand is doing.

I am not in any way excusing intentional fraud or the damage it does to society as a whole. I don’t like it. It should not have happened anywhere by anyone, including by Trump, his family and associates and his cabinet and appointees.

Unfortunately we are living under the grip of an elected potus who thinks he’s a mob boss, enabled by a pack of hyenas who are in it for the self aggrandizement and the grift.

Again, kinda making my point.

Fraud is bad, but these poor immigrants probably didn't even know they were committing fraud and they're really just victims in all of this, and besides Trump is way worse and it's all just racist deflection anyway.

Trump is definitely racist in dredging up the fraud committed several years ago, discovered by Minnesota and given to the FBI years ago as though it were cure t and ongoing, because he harps on the Somali part and ignores the part where it was led by a white woman and people have since been prosecuted and sentenced—just as it was a racist lie that black immigrants in Ohio were eating people’s pets! The fact that Trump harps on the race of perpetrators of real crimes and invented ones is indeed racist and designed to work up to a fever pitch the racism of a significant portion of his constituents.

It’s also extremely hypocritical and frankly a deflection from the copious amount of fraud committed in red states, by his cabinet, by Trump himself and family members.

It is a truism that for Trump and the GOO, every accusation is a confession for a reason. Few would disagree that Trump’s administrations have been extremely corrupt. Grift is the point of it all,

 

[Derec]

High on the progressive stack. Such bullshit strawmanning. Fucking Andrew Tate taint lickers. Useless fucks.

Do you understand that "progressive stack" was invented by your fellow woke fauxgressives in order to establish a hierarchy based on "intersectionality"?

It has nothing to do with Andrew Tate. Not that I ever listed to that guy, much less do anything with his perineum.

 

[Emily Lake]

Trump is definitely racist in dredging up the fraud committed several years ago, discovered by Minnesota and given to the FBI years ago as though it were cure t and ongoing

It has been current and ongoing though.

 

[laughing dog]

Trump is definitely racist in dredging up the fraud committed several years ago, discovered by Minnesota and given to the FBI years ago as though it were cure t and ongoing

It has been current and ongoing though.

Are you sure about that?

I ask, because investigations and squawking are current. But fraud? Maybe, but I’ve not seen reports.

 

[laughing dog]

We must live in different realities because NO ONE defended fraud in any sense of the meaning of defend in my reality.

Toni's position is that it's not really their fault because they are just immigrants who don't know any better. As far as she is concerned, it's all some white people's fault.

Not at all! My position is that it is absolutely understandable how something ( fraud, a fondness for beer or casseroles or football) spreads in any distinct group. I think almost any ( the qualifier because I dislike absolutes) immigrant cohort is especially vulnerable to exploitation by others and also at misplacing trust and for some groups, desperation and/or anger and fear as they learn to navigate a new country. Did all of the individuals participating in the fraud realize initially that they were participating in a fraud? I don’t know the answer to that but I suspect at least some were not aware of the fraud. During COVID, a lot of people faced very serious food and housing insecurity. Fear can generate anger and can push people to take risks they normally would not. Some people come from cultures where fraud is simply another Tuesday, there is so little trust in government or its institutions. I cannot hazard a guess as to what extent, including zero, any of this played in this particular instance of fraud.

The Somali angle certainly was pushed by Trump, as he did with the false allegations about black immigrants eating pets. Trump was deliberately pushing a narrative about immigrants, especially black immigrants as red meat for his supporters.

This is galling in the face of the fact that there has been much greater fraud in many other states and get this; within the Trump administration and his own family. Remember that the Trump family perpetuated fraud against a children’s cancer charity? So, also deflection/distraction. Like a carnival magician, Trump wants the audience to look at the shiny object in his right hand and to ignore what the left hand is doing.

I am not in any way excusing intentional fraud or the damage it does to society as a whole. I don’t like it. It should not have happened anywhere by anyone, including by Trump, his family and associates and his cabinet and appointees.

Unfortunately we are living under the grip of an elected potus who thinks he’s a mob boss, enabled by a pack of hyenas who are in it for the self aggrandizement and the grift.

Again, kinda making my point.

Fraud is bad, but these poor immigrants probably didn't even know they were committing fraud and they're really just victims in all of this, and besides Trump is way worse and it's all just racist deflection anyway.

I read Toni’s point is that the fraud is inexcusable but understandable. Which makes your response a rather avoidable mischaracterization.

 

[Gospel]

 

[Toni]

Trump is definitely racist in dredging up the fraud committed several years ago, discovered by Minnesota and given to the FBI years ago as though it were cure t and ongoing

It has been current and ongoing though.

Nope.

 

[Millrat]

Trump is definitely racist in dredging up the fraud committed several years ago, discovered by Minnesota and given to the FBI years ago as though it were cure t and ongoing

It has been current and ongoing though.

Nope.

So the Nick Shirley fraud expose video is totally without merit? The hell you say,,,