Gaming related swatting takes its first life

[bilby]

If there's a way to get the swatter on a murder charge, do so. It should be a felony to make deliberate false report/accusation of a felony. The state isn't your proxy for carrying out vendettas; it needs to be punished severely.

Actually, the state IS your proxy for carrying out vendettas. That's how you persuade people to abandon vendettas in favour of civilization - you arrange for the state to do the punishing of offences on behalf of the victims, in an open, measured, and well thought through manner, so that all can see that justice was done. If you have a grievance against another citizen, you are supposed to make the state your proxy, by outlining the grievance to the police, who then decide what action, if any, to take; and/or by testifying in a court of law, which then makes a determination about who, if anyone, is in the wrong, and what form any compensation or punishment should take.

When the state stops being open, measured, and well thought through in its actions against suspected criminals, it is no longer fit for purpose. The job of the police is to bring suspects to trial with minimum force, and while it may, very occasionally, be necessary for them to use lethal force, this should not be routine.

As soon as it is considered reasonable, normal, or routine for police to employ lethal force, you have failed at your attempt to impose civilization. And at that point, vendettas such as these can once again take place - with the police as unwitting tools, making things worse, rather than better.

Every instance where a suspect is killed by police is an instance of justice being denied; Every such instance is BY DEFINITION an instance of the killing of an innocent person*, and should be treated as such.

In a civilized country, nobody would have been killed by police in this situation even if the reports made by Swautistic were not purely fictional.

Of course, none of that implies that Swautistic is not guilty of murder in this case, just as much as he would be had he hired an assassin. He took a course of action that he hoped, and had a reasonable expectation, would lead to somebody's death.







*All suspects, no matter how apparently obvious it is that they are guilty of a crime, are innocent, until and unless convicted in a court of law. A suspect killed by police is an innocent killed by police, under the definitions of these terms as used in law by civilized nations.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Plenty of blame for both parties here.

OK, I'll bite. How is the victim equally to blame?

I meant the cop and the swatter. And saying there's plenty of blame doesn't say they get equal amounts.

Scratches a third line on the TF wall.

- - - Updated - - -

If there's a way to get the swatter on a murder charge, do so. It should be a felony to make deliberate false report/accusation of a felony. The state isn't your proxy for carrying out vendettas

Why not? Our taxes pay their salary.

 

[barbos]

Sounded like the poor guy was guilty of putting his hands up too fast.
Wonder if the cops had body cameras, and they remembered to turn them on.

Do these gamers just pull addresses off Google Maps or do they go after rival gamers? There would be some degree of comfort knowing they keep this in their own world.

If the cops came banging, I'd be scared shitless to even answer the door.

I understand one gamer gave a random address to another one who called SWAT to that address. Dead guy just had a bad luck.
This swatting thing has been going on for a while now, and police should have known better.

 

[RavenSky]

Sounded like the poor guy was guilty of putting his hands up too fast.
Wonder if the cops had body cameras, and they remembered to turn them on.

Do these gamers just pull addresses off Google Maps or do they go after rival gamers? There would be some degree of comfort knowing they keep this in their own world.

If the cops came banging, I'd be scared shitless to even answer the door.

I understand one gamer gave a random address to another one who called SWAT to that address. Dead guy just had a bad luck.
This swatting thing has been going on for a while now, and police should have known better.

They need to treat every call seriously. If they assume it is someone swatting, and it really was a hostage situation, that would be very bad too.

What police really need to do is to stop shooting people before properly assessing the situation.

 

[barbos]

Sounded like the poor guy was guilty of putting his hands up too fast.
Wonder if the cops had body cameras, and they remembered to turn them on.

Do these gamers just pull addresses off Google Maps or do they go after rival gamers? There would be some degree of comfort knowing they keep this in their own world.

If the cops came banging, I'd be scared shitless to even answer the door.

I understand one gamer gave a random address to another one who called SWAT to that address. Dead guy just had a bad luck.
This swatting thing has been going on for a while now, and police should have known better.

They need to treat every call seriously. If they assume it is someone swatting, and it really was a hostage situation, that would be very bad too.

What police really need to do is to stop shooting people before properly assessing the situation.

Well, in this particular case the guy is dead because they assumed he just killed 2 people.
They need to stop assuming anything.

 

[RavenSky]

They need to treat every call seriously. If they assume it is someone swatting, and it really was a hostage situation, that would be very bad too.

What police really need to do is to stop shooting people before properly assessing the situation.

Well, in this particular case the guy is dead because they assumed he just killed 2 people.
They need to stop assuming anything.

^^^ agree!

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

They need to treat every call seriously. If they assume it is someone swatting, and it really was a hostage situation, that would be very bad too.

What police really need to do is to stop shooting people before properly assessing the situation.

Well, in this particular case the guy is dead because they assumed he just killed 2 people.
They need to stop assuming anything.

^^^ agree!

Yes and no. Officers have to enter a situation with the proper mindset. But then, they established there didn't appear to be any problems. At this point, why is it still treated like a hostage situation?

And I don't get the swatting thing.

A: "I'm going to send the cops to your house."
B: *eek*
A: "Tell me where you live"
B: ???

 

[RavenSky]

^^^ agree!

Yes and no. Officers have to enter a situation with the proper mindset. But then, they established there didn't appear to be any problems. At this point, why is it still treated like a hostage situation?

I don't think they established there were no problems, but they did have the young man out of his house and cooperating. There was no excuse for this shooting, and I certainly did not mean to imply there was. Your post is much more clear.

And I don't get the swatting thing.

A: "I'm going to send the cops to your house."
B: *eek*
A: "Tell me where you live"
B: ???

Well, lesson to gamers out there... don't give the idiots a random address either

 

[bilby]

If someone was threatening me, the address I would give them would be that of a police station.

Of course, in the USA, that would probably end up with two groups of cops shooting at each other...

 

[Malintent]

saw a thread on this on a gaming website that has hundreds of thousands of active users... within an hour it was up to 11 pages of people blaming the gamers, calling for their arrest and imprisonment, defending the cop, and making wild claims that the guy answering the door probably had a gun or something.
in a way it's interesting to know that knee-jerk authoritarian fellatio happens in places other than these forums, but at the same time it is truly sickening to see how people can defend the police in this circumstance.

i'd say the people who called in the SWAT team should certainly be charged with filing a false report, but the cop should be prosecuted for murder.

You may not be aware of how prevalent a problem "swatting" is in the gaming world. I would have been greatly surprised if the community didn't ask for the swatters head.

 

[ronburgundy]

https://www.engadget.com/2017/12/30/lapd-arrest-swatting-wichita/
https://www.kansas.com/news/local/crime/article192244734.html

They arrested the caller, released the call and video of the shooting. He's 25, with a history of swatting and calling in bomb threats. He did everything he could on the call to make sure the victim got shot. I'd throw the book at him.

Absolutely agree... the existing book and at least 10 others (because the criminal penalties are far too light in this case)

I wonder how the other person is feeling this morning - the one who gave Swautistic the address.

The caller should be charged with voluntary manslaughter, at minimum. I'd say what he did was criminally equivalent to hiring a hitman.

 

[RavenSky]

The caller should be charged with voluntary manslaughter, at minimum. I'd say what he did was criminally equivalent to hiring a hitman.

very good point

 

[Loren Pechtel]

https://www.engadget.com/2017/12/30/lapd-arrest-swatting-wichita/
https://www.kansas.com/news/local/crime/article192244734.html

They arrested the caller, released the call and video of the shooting. He's 25, with a history of swatting and calling in bomb threats. He did everything he could on the call to make sure the victim got shot. I'd throw the book at him.

Absolutely agree... the existing book and at least 10 others (because the criminal penalties are far too light in this case)

I wonder how the other person is feeling this morning - the one who gave Swautistic the address.

The caller should be charged with voluntary manslaughter, at minimum. I'd say what he did was criminally equivalent to hiring a hitman.

That's how I see it, also. Not very likely to succeed but how competent one's plan is doesn't enter into guilt.

 

[ronburgundy]

The caller should be charged with voluntary manslaughter, at minimum. I'd say what he did was criminally equivalent to hiring a hitman.

That's how I see it, also. Not very likely to succeed but how competent one's plan is doesn't enter into guilt.

Actually, the "competence" of his plan is evidence of his extensive planning, premeditation, and intent to get someone killed.
IF you just want to get the cops to knock on someone's door, you don't need such an elaborate script that was guaranteed to make them on high alert for a likely armed and deranged person on a family killing spree.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The caller should be charged with voluntary manslaughter, at minimum. I'd say what he did was criminally equivalent to hiring a hitman.

That's how I see it, also. Not very likely to succeed but how competent one's plan is doesn't enter into guilt.

Actually, the "competence" of his plan is evidence of his extensive planning, premeditation, and intent to get someone killed.
IF you just want to get the cops to knock on someone's door, you don't need such an elaborate script that was guaranteed to make them on high alert for a likely armed and deranged person on a family killing spree.

Extensive != competent. Most swatting doesn't get anyone hurt.

 

[blastula]

Some justice.

Tyler R. Barriss sentence: Man gets 20 years for hoax call that led to fatal police shooting today - CBS News