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Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

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Really? You think Bibi wouldn't have found another pretext? That's seriously naïve right there.
Without a brutal attack like 10/7, there would have been no six months of war. That is a pretty safe bet.
Perhaps there would have been a brief exchange of strikes like in May 2023, but not more.

This war is all on Hamas and their Iranian masters. No matter how much you hate Bibi.
 
Bullshit.
The disaster in Gaza right now is because Hamas lead Gazans forced Israel into battle on October 7 2023. There's no maybe about it.
Perhaps English is not your language if you really think Israel was forced into battle.
Maybe English is not yours if you don't understand what happened on October 7, 2023.

Israel is responding to a violent terrorist attack. Do you even realize that?
Tom
 
Here we go folks, Iranian drones are reported on the way to Israel as retaliation for attacking a diplomatic mission in Syria killing officers.
Israel did not attack any "diplomatic mission". They attacked a building adjacent to the embassy which housed military personnel involved in attacking Israel from Lebanese territory. The strike killed two IRGC generals and several other IRGC and Hezbollah officers.
Netanyahu has long wanted the US to attack Iran, and now Iran may give Biden the excuse. We have no defense treaty with Israel yet Biden will undoubtedly use force without congregational authorization.
I think he should. He clearly told Iran "don't" and will look weak if he doesn't respond. I think IRGC sites should be bombed.

Vietnam and the Tonkin Gulf all over again, we may slip unto another unwinnable never ending conflict.
I disagree. Nobody is proposing military occupation of Iran. But strikes against the IRGC and other organs of the illegitimate regime in Tehran should be fair game.

Iran can disrupt Saudi oil and shipping in the straights.
And we can take out their navy.

Someone coined the term 'genocide Joe'. Feckless Joe keeps scolding Israel who could give a shit what he Joe says, and Joe keeps chanting unwavering support for Israel, we 'got your back' is his go to soundbite.
It was a mistake for Biden to give an inch to the Israel-haters on the rabid left. Now they are chanting "Death to America" in Dearborn and the likes of Rashida Tlaib are refusing to condemn it.

We did not learn from Afghanistan and Iraq. Our overwhelming military superiority did not lead to any good outcomes for us.W are still playing whack-a-mole in the region.
So what is your solution? Do nothing while the new Axis of Evil grabs more and more territory. Iran is attacking Israel. Russia is attacking Ukraine. China is looking hungrily in the direction of Taiwan. Do you think that's good for world peace?

An Iranian immigrant I knew told me if the US attacked Iran it would galvanize the Iranian people against us.
Best case scenario would certainly be for the Iranian people to rise up against the dictator. But for that the stranglehold the dictatorship has on the country has to weaken. If US were to conduct attacks against IRGC assets, I do not think the people would galvanize against us. But it would weaken the regime.
 
Here we go folks, Iranian drones are reported on the way to Israel as retaliation for attacking a diplomatic mission in Syria killing officers.
And the Iranians highjacked a ship, because it was "associated" with Israel.
Iran has launched another front in a growing war.

Fuck
Tom
 
Bullshit.
The disaster in Gaza right now is because Hamas lead Gazans forced Israel into battle on October 7 2023. There's no maybe about it.
Perhaps English is not your language if you really think Israel was forced into battle.
Maybe English is not yours if you don't understand what happened on October 7, 2023.

Israel is responding to a violent terrorist attack. Do you even realize that?
Tom
Stop shifting the goalposts. You wrote "..because Hamas lead Gazans forced Israel into battle" (bold-faced and italics are added). Israel was not forced into anything. Israel choose how a course of action from numerous possible courses.
 
Stop shifting the goalposts. You wrote "..because Hamas lead Gazans forced Israel into battle" (bold-faced and italics are added). Israel was not forced into anything. Israel choose how a course of action from numerous possible courses.
In the same sense that US was not forced into WWII after Pearl Harbor and had "numerous possible courses" of action. Technically true, but not true in any meaningful sense. Again, you employ your trademark deflection and hair splitting. Are you perchance a lawyer?
 
Bullshit.
The disaster in Gaza right now is because Hamas lead Gazans forced Israel into battle on October 7 2023. There's no maybe about it.
Perhaps English is not your language if you really think Israel was forced into battle.
Maybe English is not yours if you don't understand what happened on October 7, 2023.

Israel is responding to a violent terrorist attack. Do you even realize that?
Tom
Stop shifting the goalposts. You wrote "..because Hamas lead Gazans forced Israel into battle" (bold-faced and italics are added). Israel was not forced into anything. Israel choose how a course of action from numerous possible courses.
Israel chose to defend themselves from an existential threat. That's forced in my book.

What wasn't forced was the attack. That was the course of action chosen by Gazans from a much larger range of possible courses.

Gazans chose to force Israel into action. Knowingly.
Tom
 
Stop shifting the goalposts. You wrote "..because Hamas lead Gazans forced Israel into battle" (bold-faced and italics are added). Israel was not forced into anything. Israel choose how a course of action from numerous possible courses.
In the same sense that US was not forced into WWII after Pearl Harbor and had "numerous possible courses" of action. Technically true, but not true in any meaningful sense. Again, you employ your trademark deflection and hair splitting. Are you perchance a lawyer?
Your analogy is the result of sloppy thinking. The Japanese declared war on the US and had the means to continue attacking. That is not the case with Hamas.
 
Bullshit.
The disaster in Gaza right now is because Hamas lead Gazans forced Israel into battle on October 7 2023. There's no maybe about it.
Perhaps English is not your language if you really think Israel was forced into battle.
Maybe English is not yours if you don't understand what happened on October 7, 2023.

Israel is responding to a violent terrorist attack. Do you even realize that?
Tom
Stop shifting the goalposts. You wrote "..because Hamas lead Gazans forced Israel into battle" (bold-faced and italics are added). Israel was not forced into anything. Israel choose how a course of action from numerous possible courses.
Israel chose to defend themselves from an existential threat. That's forced in my book.
It would be in anyone's book. However, a terror attack on a small part of the country is not an existential threat. And, of course, there were many avenues of defense.
What wasn't forced was the attack. That was the course of action chosen by Gazans from a much larger range of possible courses.
No, it was chosen by Hamas.
Gazans chose to force Israel into action. Knowingly.
Tom
Still having the problem with the English language.
 
Your analogy is the result of sloppy thinking. The Japanese declared war on the US and had the means to continue attacking. That is not the case with Hamas.
Hamas has repeatedly declared they want to destroy Israel and they have had means to keep attacking.

Besides, since you are so fond of being technically correct, Japan did not declare war on US.
 
No, it was chosen by Hamas.
Hamas is from Gaza. It's been in charge for almost 20 years. Gazans have not expressed any problems with them I know about.
I see no way to distinguish between Gazans and Hamas with any clarity.
If you do, feel free to share. Key word "clarity".
Tom
 
No, it was chosen by Hamas.
Hamas is from Gaza. It's been in charge for almost 20 years. Gazans have not expressed any problems with them I know about.
I see no way to distinguish between Gazans and Hamas with any clarity.
That reflects on your level of knowledge, not the term clarity or reality.
If you do, feel free to share. Key word "clarity".
Tom
Gazans are people who come from Gaza. Hamas is a terrorist organization whose membership are Gazans. This isn't hard to do.
 
Your analogy is the result of sloppy thinking. The Japanese declared war on the US and had the means to continue attacking. That is not the case with Hamas.
Hamas has repeatedly declared they want to destroy Israel and they have had means to keep attacking.
Wanting to destroy and having the means are completely different concepts. As are defending from immediate attack and acting from fear of an attack.
Besides, since you are so fond of being technically correct, Japan did not declare war on US.
You are misinformed. Japan declared war on the US and Great Britain after they attacked Pearl Harbor - Japan declares war against US in 1941
 
Wanting to destroy and having the means are completely different concepts. As are defending from immediate attack and acting from fear of an attack.
They murdered over a 1000 Israelis and kidnapped hundreds. Moreover, Israel is a small country, and any attack is existential threat.
To claim that Israel did not have to respond by going after Hamas in Gaza is ridiculous.

You are misinformed. Japan declared war on the US and Great Britain after they attacked Pearl Harbor - Japan declares war against US in 1941
Two hours after the surprise attack. The war between Japan and US started with that attack, not with the belated declaration.
And how does that make the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor worse than the Hamas attack on Israel?
 
It would be in anyone's book. However, a terror attack on a small part of the country is not an existential threat.
Israel is a small country. Gaza is less than 50 miles from Jerusalem for example.
Compare that to the Pearl Harbor attack. Hawaii is >2k miles from US mainland.
And, of course, there were many avenues of defense
What other reasonable avenues of defense did US have?
 
Wanting to destroy and having the means are completely different concepts. As are defending from immediate attack and acting from fear of an attack.
They murdered over a 1000 Israelis and kidnapped hundreds. Moreover, Israel is a small country, and any attack is existential threat.
Nonsense.
Derec said:
To claim that Israel did not have to respond by going after Hamas in Gaza is ridiculous.
It is true they did not gave to. And Israel had many different options on when, where and how to go after Hamas. It is ridiculous to claim they had to respond like they did.
Derec said:
You are misinformed. Japan declared war on the US and Great Britain after they attacked Pearl Harbor - Japan declares war against US in 1941
Two hours after the surprise attack. The war between Japan and US started with that attack, not with the belated declaration.
And how does that make the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor worse than the Hamas attack on Israel?
I don’t understand the point of that question.
 
They murdered over a 1000 Israelis and kidnapped hundreds. Moreover, Israel is a small country, and any attack is existential threat.
Nonsense.
Are you a 10/7 denialist now too?
It is true they did not gave to. And Israel had many different options on when, where and how to go after Hamas.
What other reasonable options did Israel have?
I don’t understand the point of that question.
You insinuated in post #4069 that attack on Pearl Harbor was somehow more of a threat to US than the Hamas attack on 10/7 was a threat to Israel.
 
They murdered over a 1000 Israelis and kidnapped hundreds. Moreover, Israel is a small country, and any attack is existential threat.
Nonsense.
Are you a 10/7 denialist now too?
I’d expect such a stupid straw man from a sloppy thinker. So what is your excuse?
It is true they did not gave to. And Israel had many different options on when, where and how to go after Hamas.
What other reasonable options did Israel have?[/quote] “Reasonable” is in the eye of the beholder. Within Israel there was debate over a number of options and over the scope and purpose of any invasion.
Derec said:
I don’t understand the point of that question.
You insinuated in post #4069 that attack on Pearl Harbor was somehow more of a threat to US than the Hamas attack on 10/7 was a threat to Israel.
That does not explain the point of your question.
 
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