Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[Loren Pechtel]

I would not be surprised if Israel objected to an agreement by Hamas to take the deal, because I don't think that Netanyahu really wants to end the attacks on Palestinians.

I honestly think that Netanyahu and his supporters have pretty much given up on peace with their neighbors and are not concerned about much but Israeli security.

It would be completely understandable and would match the situation.
Tom

From what I hear: a great majority of Israelis have given up hope for peace since the disgusting acts of 10.7.

A great majority gave up long ago. They learned that making friendly gestures always ends up hurting them in the long run.

 

[lpetrich]

Israel's Netanyahu says ICC arrest warrants would be scandal on historic scale | Reuters
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu:

"The possibility that they will issue arrest warrants for war crimes against IDF (Israel Defence Force) commanders and state leaders, this possibility is a scandal on a historic scale," Netanyahu said.

"I want to make one thing clear: no decision, neither in The Hague nor anywhere else, will harm our determination to achieve all the goals of the war - the release of all our hostages, a complete victory over Hamas and a promise that Gaza will no longer pose a threat to Israel."

Why International Criminal Court has Israeli officials worried | AP News

The ICC was established in 2002 as the permanent court of last resort to prosecute individuals responsible for the world’s most heinous atrocities – war crimes, crimes against humanity, genocide and the crime of aggression.

The Rome Statute creating the ICC was adopted in 1998 and entered into force when it got 60 ratifications on July 1, 2002. The U.N. General Assembly endorsed the ICC, but the court is independent.

Without a police force, the ICC relies on member states to arrest suspects, which has proven to be a major obstacle to prosecutions.

What is it?

The ICC’s 124 member states have signed on to the Rome Statute. Dozens of countries did not sign and do not accept the court’s jurisdiction over war crimes, genocide and other crimes. They include Israel, the United States, Russia and China.

The ICC becomes involved when nations are unable or unwilling to prosecute crimes on their territory. Israel argues that it has a functioning court system, and disputes over a nation’s ability or willingness to prosecute have fueled past disputes between the court and individual countries.

In 2020, then-President Donald Trump slapped economic and travel sanctions on the ICC prosecutor and another senior prosecution office staffer. The ICC staff were looking into U.S. and allies’ troops and intelligence officials for possible war crimes in Afghanistan.

...
In its early years, the court was criticized for focusing on crimes in Africa — 10 of its investigations are in African nations — but now it has investigations in Asia, Europe, the Middle East and Latin America.

Who else has been charged by this court?

A year ago after the court issued a warrant for Russian President Vladimir Putin on charges of responsibility for the abductions of children from Ukraine. Russia responded by issuing its own arrest warrants for Khan and ICC judges.

Other high-profile leaders charged by the court include ousted Sudanese strongman Omar al-Bashir on allegations including genocide in his country’s Darfur region. Former Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi was captured and killed by rebels shortly after the ICC issued a warrant for his arrest on charges linked to the brutal suppression of anti-government protests in 2011.

 

[lpetrich]

 American Service-Members' Protection Act

The Act gives the president power to use "all means necessary and appropriate to bring about the release of any U.S. or allied personnel being detained or imprisoned by, on behalf of, or at the request of the International Criminal Court".

It is sometimes nicknamed the Hague Invasion Act.

 

[laughing dog]

Do you not understand hyperlinks? Because I was linking to your post.

I understand that saying "Somewhere in there is the proof" is not supporting a claim. You have had plenty of time to support your claim, but have failed to do so.

If there’s no middle then wouldn’t the two options be either:

1) Israel does nothing to defend itself
2) Israel carpet bombs the entire Gaza Strip to ensure full elimination of Hamas

Clearly there is a middle. But the arguments lie in how many civilian casualties are “acceptable” given the situation and the military goals.

No. That's an issue of how many casualties are tolerable. Laughing dog chose the option of zero being acceptable.

That is a falsehood. Please stop repeating it.

 

[TomC]

That is a falsehood. Please stop repeating it.

Mischaracterizing posts is kind of a sport in some threads.
If you don't like it stop doing it

Tom

 

[Swammerdami]

According to Wikipedia, there are 120,000 Gazans killed, wounded or missing. Another MILLION Gazans are "on the brink of imminent starvation and famine." Yes, that's MILLION with an "M."

And this colossal genocide -- yes, GENOCIDE, let's call a spade a spade -- isn't even the biggest problem. From this day forward, most of the world will be unable to view Israel with anything but disgust. Nor will they be pleased with Israel's enabler, the United States of America.

George W. Bush was off by a few decades. Today an "Axis of Evil" (led by Vladimir Putin) really is developing, and American power is on the verge of slowly fading away. When the history book ("Decline and Fall of the American Empire") is written a few decades from now, the tragedy in Gaza will be featured as a reason America lost its moral authority.

 

[TomC]

When the history book ("Decline and Fall of the American Empire") is written a few decades from now, the tragedy in Gaza will be featured as a reason America lost its moral authority.

Considering our long history of dreadful behavior, including post WWII, I think that this is a blip on the screen. Invading Iraq was a much bigger deal.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

That is a falsehood. Please stop repeating it.

Mischaracterizing posts is kind of a sport in some threads.
If you don't like it stop doing it

Tom

I am not you nor LP. So lead by example.

 

[TomC]

Who else has been charged by this court?

Out of idle curiosity,
What has the ICC done concerning Hamas and it's international backers?
Tom

 

[Swammerdami]

Out of idle curiosity,
What has the ICC done concerning Hamas and it's international backers?
Tom

The Wikipedia article  War crimes in the Israel–Hamas war discusses allegations and conclusions reached by international organizations. They find much to blame on both sides. AFAIK, the ICC has not issued any indictments for this war. It has issued only 4 indictments altogether since 2022, all against Russians and related to the War in Ukraine.

 

[Tigers!]

Who else has been charged by this court?

Out of idle curiosity,
What has the ICC done concerning Hamas and it's international backers?
Tom

Out of idle curiosity pick a number between 0.0 and 0.00000000000000000000000

 

[TomC]

Who else has been charged by this court?

Out of idle curiosity,
What has the ICC done concerning Hamas and it's international backers?
Tom

Out of idle curiosity pick a number between 0.0 and 0.00000000000000000000000

I kinda figured as much.
But Swammi explained that it's one of those international organizations that don't do much but pay bureaucrats to clutch pearls.
Tom

 

[Tigers!]

According to Wikipedia, there are 120,000 Gazans killed, wounded or missing. Another MILLION Gazans are "on the brink of imminent starvation and famine." Yes, that's MILLION with an "M."

And this colossal genocide -- yes, GENOCIDE, let's call a spade a spade -- isn't even the biggest problem. From this day forward, most of the world will be unable to view Israel with anything but disgust. Nor will they be pleased with Israel's enabler, the United States of America.

You forget there human tendency to forget rather easily. Germany killed 6M (with a M) Jews plus millions of others just 80 years ago.
Who treats Germany/Germans with disgust these days because of that?

George W. Bush was off by a few decades. Today an "Axis of Evil" (led by Vladimir Putin) really is developing, and American power is on the verge of slowly fading away. When the history book ("Decline and Fall of the American Empire") is written a few decades from now, the tragedy in Gaza will be featured as a reason America lost its moral authority.

Sadly just another brick in the wall.

 

[Tigers!]

In war-battered Gaza, residents grow angry with Hamas

JERUSALEM — More than six months into the war in Gaza and with dimming hopes for a cease-fire deal, Palestinians there are growing more critical of Hamas, which some of them blame for the months-long conflict that has destroyed the territory — and their lives.

The war has displaced most of the Gaza Strip’s population, killed tens of thousands of people and pushed the enclave toward famine, its infrastructure in ruins. The Israeli military waged a punishing campaign to eliminate Hamas after the group, which has ruled Gaza for 17 years, attacked Israel on Oct. 7, killing an estimated 1,200 people and abducting more than 250.

But while the majority of Palestinians in Gaza blame Israel for their suffering, according to polling conducted in March, they also appear to be turning their ire toward the militants. In interviews with more than a dozen residents of Gaza, people said they resent Hamas for the attacks in Israel and — war-weary and desperate to fulfill their basic needs — just want to see peace as soon as possible.

That cannot be true - according to all the experts, Hamas has overwhelmingly support from the population of Gaza. That’s why there has been no need for elections since 2007.

That's what the article says.
"Palestinians there are growing more critical of Hamas,".

Who knows? Maybe Palestinians in general, and Gazans in particular, are starting to realize that Zionists are not the villains and Hamas the heroes.
It would be a change though.
Tom

It also supports the notion that opposition to Hamas can endanger your life, therefore polls cannot be trusted.

Ironically that is a reason why HAMAS must be beaten

 

[ZiprHead]

According to Wikipedia, there are 120,000 Gazans killed, wounded or missing. Another MILLION Gazans are "on the brink of imminent starvation and famine." Yes, that's MILLION with an "M."

And this colossal genocide -- yes, GENOCIDE, let's call a spade a spade -- isn't even the biggest problem. From this day forward, most of the world will be unable to view Israel with anything but disgust. Nor will they be pleased with Israel's enabler, the United States of America.

George W. Bush was off by a few decades. Today an "Axis of Evil" (led by Vladimir Putin) really is developing, and American power is on the verge of slowly fading away. When the history book ("Decline and Fall of the American Empire") is written a few decades from now, the tragedy in Gaza will be featured as a reason America lost its moral authority.

Wow, even the Gaza Health Ministry isn't claiming that many. Nowhere near, actually.

 

[TomC]

Wow, even the Gaza Health Ministry isn't claiming that many. Nowhere near, actually.

One thing I realized a long time ago.
For most information Wikipedia is an invaluable source.
Hot button issues it is not.
Tom

 

[Swammerdami]

According to Wikipedia, there are 120,000 Gazans killed, wounded or missing. Another MILLION Gazans are "on the brink of imminent starvation and famine." Yes, that's MILLION with an "M."

Wow, even the Gaza Health Ministry isn't claiming that many. Nowhere near, actually.

"120,000 Gazans killed, WOUNDED or missing." I don't know the threshold for "wounded" -- does it include those who visited doctor for minor sprains and cuts?

But whatever the details, it's pretty clear that Gazans -- already miserable even before this war -- are now in desperation, and lacking medical care, proper food, shelter, or hope.

 

[Harry Bosch]

It appears that a ceasefire is very close to happening:

Blinken Turns Up Pressure on Hamas to Accept Gaza Cease-Fire Deal

“The time is now,” Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken declared, urging Hamas to accept the terms of a proposed truce. He also made clear that he expected more from Israel.

www.nytimes.com

Seems to be in Hamas's court.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

It appears that a ceasefire is very close to happening:

Blinken Turns Up Pressure on Hamas to Accept Gaza Cease-Fire Deal

“The time is now,” Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken declared, urging Hamas to accept the terms of a proposed truce. He also made clear that he expected more from Israel.

www.nytimes.com

Seems to be in Hamas's court.

This was posted to the thread earlier:

Gaza: Israeli PM Netanyahu says Rafah attack will happen regardless of deal - BBC News

The Israeli prime minister says the invasion will proceed "with or without" a truce with Hamas.

www.bbc.com

Would you say that this type of communication is conducive to a ceasefire?

I want to be optimistic, but I don't know what is going to happen here.

 

[Copernicus]

It appears that a ceasefire is very close to happening:

Blinken Turns Up Pressure on Hamas to Accept Gaza Cease-Fire Deal

“The time is now,” Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken declared, urging Hamas to accept the terms of a proposed truce. He also made clear that he expected more from Israel.

www.nytimes.com

Seems to be in Hamas's court.

This was posted to the thread earlier:

Gaza: Israeli PM Netanyahu says Rafah attack will happen regardless of deal - BBC News

The Israeli prime minister says the invasion will proceed "with or without" a truce with Hamas.

www.bbc.com

Would you say that this type of communication is conducive to a ceasefire?

I want to be optimistic, but I don't know what is going to happen here.

It looks to me like Netanyahu is trying to derail talk of a ceasefire, which he has come out against repeatedly in the past. Biden appears to be feeding him with the impression that nothing he says or does will change US policy, effectively undercutting any influence that the US could have on the man's behavior.