Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[DrZoidberg]

I thought we had a thread about Israel vs "journalists" but I'm not finding it.

IDF reveals: Six Al Jazeera journalists are Hamas, PIJ terrorists

The exposed journalists are part of Hamas's military wing operating as the vanguard of Hamas's propaganda war against Israel.

www.jpost.com

6 journalists from Al Jazeera have been identified as being on terrorist payrolls.

Indipendent journalists aren't allowed in Gaza. If they're there the're Hamas fighters.

 

[DrZoidberg]

No one in this thread supports Hamas. That idiotic straw man is harder to kill than a vampire.

Lol. It's not a straw man. Until the Palestinians rise up and turn on Hamas en masse, then Hamas represents the Palestinians. As far as I can tell the Palestinians are still very pro-Hamas.

Hamas has all along been using the Palestinian people as human shields. Yet, Palestinian rage is not directed against Hamas. It's totally directed against Israel.

History is full of opressed people who turn on their evil overlords. Why wouldn't the Palestinians be able to do so as well? Perhaps because they support Hamas? And if they do then support for the Palestinians is a support for Hamas.

You need to explain how any of that have to do people in this thread supporting Hamas if you wish to be taken seriously.

I'm sorry reality is hurting your feelings. Arguing against Israel now, is arguing for Hamas. If you want a quick end for this war then pray for IDF succeeding with their goals. If this war has taught us anything it's that Israel was right all along and this war is justified. Anything else is playing into the propaganda bullshit of Hamas/Iran

 

[laughing dog]

No one in this thread supports Hamas. That idiotic straw man is harder to kill than a vampire.

Lol. It's not a straw man. Until the Palestinians rise up and turn on Hamas en masse, then Hamas represents the Palestinians. As far as I can tell the Palestinians are still very pro-Hamas.

Hamas has all along been using the Palestinian people as human shields. Yet, Palestinian rage is not directed against Hamas. It's totally directed against Israel.

History is full of opressed people who turn on their evil overlords. Why wouldn't the Palestinians be able to do so as well? Perhaps because they support Hamas? And if they do then support for the Palestinians is a support for Hamas.

You need to explain how any of that have to do people in this thread supporting Hamas if you wish to be taken seriously.

I'm sorry reality is hurting your feelings. Arguing against Israel now, is arguing for Hamas. If you want a quick end for this war then pray for IDF succeeding with their goals. If this war has taught us anything it's that Israel was right all along and this war is justified. Anything else is playing into the propaganda bullshit of Hamas/Iran

What flavor of kool aid are you drinking?

 

[DrZoidberg]

No one in this thread supports Hamas. That idiotic straw man is harder to kill than a vampire.

Lol. It's not a straw man. Until the Palestinians rise up and turn on Hamas en masse, then Hamas represents the Palestinians. As far as I can tell the Palestinians are still very pro-Hamas.

Hamas has all along been using the Palestinian people as human shields. Yet, Palestinian rage is not directed against Hamas. It's totally directed against Israel.

History is full of opressed people who turn on their evil overlords. Why wouldn't the Palestinians be able to do so as well? Perhaps because they support Hamas? And if they do then support for the Palestinians is a support for Hamas.

You need to explain how any of that have to do people in this thread supporting Hamas if you wish to be taken seriously.

I'm sorry reality is hurting your feelings. Arguing against Israel now, is arguing for Hamas. If you want a quick end for this war then pray for IDF succeeding with their goals. If this war has taught us anything it's that Israel was right all along and this war is justified. Anything else is playing into the propaganda bullshit of Hamas/Iran

What flavor of kool aid are you drinking?

There's no shame in admitting that you have earlier been duped. You are not alone. We're flooded with bullshit pro Palestine propaganda.

There's a funny story of one of Swedish state television anchor getting fired a couple of days ago for expressing views that turned out to be pro-Hamas lies. She and the rest of Sweden thought it was true. Swedish state television is bound by law not to be a plattform these kinds unsubstantiated biased opinion pieces. Luckily Jews are a bit touchy about antisemitism and are well organised. There was no way she could squirm out of that embarrassing debacle. Facts are facts. Its like the whole western media environment is stuck in a pro-Hamas/Israel is evil bubble. Zero fact checking. Zero thinking.

Just a suggestion, the moment when the conspiracy theorists are on the same side you are, its good to paus for a moment and think as to why that is

 

[laughing dog]

No one in this thread supports Hamas. That idiotic straw man is harder to kill than a vampire.

Lol. It's not a straw man. Until the Palestinians rise up and turn on Hamas en masse, then Hamas represents the Palestinians. As far as I can tell the Palestinians are still very pro-Hamas.

Hamas has all along been using the Palestinian people as human shields. Yet, Palestinian rage is not directed against Hamas. It's totally directed against Israel.

History is full of opressed people who turn on their evil overlords. Why wouldn't the Palestinians be able to do so as well? Perhaps because they support Hamas? And if they do then support for the Palestinians is a support for Hamas.

You need to explain how any of that have to do people in this thread supporting Hamas if you wish to be taken seriously.

I'm sorry reality is hurting your feelings. Arguing against Israel now, is arguing for Hamas. If you want a quick end for this war then pray for IDF succeeding with their goals. If this war has taught us anything it's that Israel was right all along and this war is justified. Anything else is playing into the propaganda bullshit of Hamas/Iran

What flavor of kool aid are you drinking?

There's no shame in admitting that you have earlier been duped. You are not alone. We're flooded with bullshit pro Palestine propaganda.

There's a funny story of one of Swedish state television anchor getting fired a couple of days ago for expressing views that turned out to be pro-Hamas lies. She and the rest of Sweden thought it was true. Swedish state television is bound by law not to be a plattform these kinds unsubstantiated biased opinion pieces. Luckily Jews are a bit touchy about antisemitism and are well organised. There was no way she could squirm out of that embarrassing debacle. Facts are facts. Its like the whole western media environment is stuck in a pro-Hamas/Israel is evil bubble. Zero fact checking. Zero thinking.

Cool story bro, but I think you should go easy on that kool aid.

Just a suggestion, the moment when the conspiracy theorists are on the same side you are, its good to paus for a moment and think as to why that is

Really, go easy on the kool aid.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

What is the answer to the question "Why did the Gazans not try the Rafah crossing which was controlled by Egypt at that time?"

Because there was no infrastructure in place that would get the produce from Rafah to markets in a timely manner, whereas the cargo terminal at the Karni crossing was designed for that very purpose, and had been working very well to get fruits, flowers, and vegetables from Gaza to markets when Israeli settlers were running the greenhouses.

It is a pity that Egypt/Israel could not work together to help the Gazans. A industry like that would have helped the Gazans so much.

And remember that it was a Hamas attack on the crossing that scuttled the export business. Think they wouldn't have somehow scuttled exporting it through Egypt also?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And Hezbollah certainly doesn't want eyes on what it's doing:

(Note that this is from earlier than the previous articles)

Hezbollah condemns media outlets for crossing into south Lebanon on Israeli military press tour

BEIRUT — Hezbollah strongly condemned what it describes as dangerous behavior by several Western media outlets, following a promotional tour organized by the Israeli army for journalists. In a...

today.lorientlejour.com

How dare the press show something that doesn't match up with the party line?!

The first and last war that allowed journalists in was the Vietnam war. There's good reasons for it. The romanticised image of what a war should be and actually is, in the public mind, is so divergent that any honest reporting would just kill the public relations for whatever soldier the camera is pointed at. And winning the public opinion is about as important today as the war on the ground.

Neither Hamas nor Israel wants indipendent journalists in Gaza. If they do, they will quickly, both lose any support from the international community.

Fun fact, Hamas do allow journalists into Gaza, as long as they are also active fighters for Hamas. Which is funny when Hamas reports on journalists killed by IDF. But they've done this all along for any Hamas fighter killed. The moment a killed Hamas fighter hits the ground, Hamas tallys it as a civilian. These guys are shameless.

Note that this is Lebanon, not Gaza. And Israel was letting reporters in under escort--and Hezbollah objected.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I'm sorry reality is hurting your feelings. Arguing against Israel now, is arguing for Hamas. If you want a quick end for this war then pray for IDF succeeding with their goals. If this war has taught us anything it's that Israel was right all along and this war is justified. Anything else is playing into the propaganda bullshit of Hamas/Iran

What flavor of kool aid are you drinking?

Calling it kool aid does not address his point.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

No one in this thread supports Hamas. That idiotic straw man is harder to kill than a vampire.

Lol. It's not a straw man. Until the Palestinians rise up and turn on Hamas en masse, then Hamas represents the Palestinians. As far as I can tell the Palestinians are still very pro-Hamas.

Hamas has all along been using the Palestinian people as human shields. Yet, Palestinian rage is not directed against Hamas. It's totally directed against Israel.

History is full of opressed people who turn on their evil overlords. Why wouldn't the Palestinians be able to do so as well? Perhaps because they support Hamas? And if they do then support for the Palestinians is a support for Hamas.

You need to explain how any of that have to do people in this thread supporting Hamas if you wish to be taken seriously.

I'm sorry reality is hurting your feelings. Arguing against Israel now, is arguing for Hamas. If you want a quick end for this war then pray for IDF succeeding with their goals. If this war has taught us anything it's that Israel was right all along and this war is justified. Anything else is playing into the propaganda bullshit of Hamas/Iran

What flavor of kool aid are you drinking?

There's no shame in admitting that you have earlier been duped. You are not alone. We're flooded with bullshit pro Palestine propaganda.

There's a funny story of one of Swedish state television anchor getting fired a couple of days ago for expressing views that turned out to be pro-Hamas lies. She and the rest of Sweden thought it was true. Swedish state television is bound by law not to be a plattform these kinds unsubstantiated biased opinion pieces. Luckily Jews are a bit touchy about antisemitism and are well organised. There was no way she could squirm out of that embarrassing debacle. Facts are facts. Its like the whole western media environment is stuck in a pro-Hamas/Israel is evil bubble. Zero fact checking. Zero thinking.

Just a suggestion, the moment when the conspiracy theorists are on the same side you are, its good to paus for a moment and think as to why that is

There are two very big factors at work:

1) Access. You want to have material to report from places like Gaza, you accept the terrorist propaganda as truth and you don't call it out. Same reason nobody asks The Felon hard questions in interviews.

2) There are about 100x as many Muslims as Jews. Pissing off the Muslims will cost you more than pissing off the Jews.

These provide a major force slanting most news towards the terrorists. And most of the US sources that don't do this are garbage that can't be trusted about anything.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Just a suggestion, the moment when the conspiracy theorists are on the same side you are, its good to paus for a moment and think as to why that is

Really, go easy on the kool aid.

Calling it kool aid is saying you don't have an answer.

 

[laughing dog]

Just a suggestion, the moment when the conspiracy theorists are on the same side you are, its good to paus for a moment and think as to why that is

Really, go easy on the kool aid.

Calling it kool aid is saying you don't have an answer.

Did you pause for a moment to think why you ate on the same side ad “the conspiracy theorists” prior to constructing your illogical response?

 

[DrZoidberg]

Just a suggestion, the moment when the conspiracy theorists are on the same side you are, its good to paus for a moment and think as to why that is

Really, go easy on the kool aid.

Calling it kool aid is saying you don't have an answer.

Did you pause for a moment to think why you ate on the same side ad “the conspiracy theorists” prior to constructing your illogical response?

Nice to know that the Protocols of Zion no longer is a thing among conspiracy theorists. Fun fact, the Protocols of Zion is referenced in the Hamas charter

You live in a fantasy world

 

[DrZoidberg]

I have limited patience for Islamofascism apologetics. I'm going to keep calling it out

 

[Gospel]

To you who support Hamas in this conflict.

Why do you think Hamas is still keeping the hostages? If they give up the hostages this war would rapidly be over. So why do you think Hamas is doing their damndest to prolong the war.

And to pre-empt the cop out, response. Hamas is the defective government in Gaza. So they represent the Palestinian people. They attacked Israel in the name of all Palestinians. Which sucks for any Palestinians who don't like Hamas. But the Palestinians have had every opportunity to revolt against Hamas. It was a tad naive to think that Hamas didn't mean all the insane anti-Semitic nonsense in their charter. The current situation was inevitable with those guys in charge

I agree with everything here, except the idea that civilians could rise up against an extremist group funded and armed by Iran. If they had the support of Israel or the US, with training and weapons, I'd be more inclined to agree with that point. They didn't and don't stand a chance.

On a different note, I'm surprised no one has mentioned Israel's strike on Iran (unless I missed it). That was incredible.

What we know about Israel’s attack on Iran

The series of air strikes are reported to have hit missile sites and air defence systems.

www.bbc.com

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

If a US Solider was close enough to shoot her in a manner that could have had her been rescued, he was close enough to say "holy shit I just shot a 9 year old girl."

Maybe he did.

And while that is bad enough, she was a US Citizen that Trump had ordered killed. A US Citizen. Doesn't the lack of due process there bother you even a little?

Lots of things bother me. Killing civilians with or without due process bothers ne a lot. Making unsubstantiated claims of fact like Trump ordered thus girl’s death bothers me a little.

But he did sign the order for the raid that resulted in her death.

Your claim that killing civilians without due process bothers you a lot would be a lot more credible if you weren't so nonchalant about it. Do you support Trump in this instance?

This happened in 2017 and you bring it up now? I’m as nonchalant as you.

No, I don’t support the killing of civilians.

I still bring up the killing of Anwar Al-Awlaki.

Still, I'm surprised. Everyone here hates Trump. Here is something Trump did wrong. Nobody except me is calling him on it.

If you really don't support the killing of civilians, you'd bring it up too.

 

[steve_bank]

The Israeli government said if Trump gets elected they will move their border into Gaza ''as punishment'. They have seized Gaza land before, nothing new, the primary cause of the conflict is nland taken by Israel.

Israel in the West Bank over decades has colonized and pushed Palestinians into smaller areas in a small area to begin with. Isolated pockets.

It is the end of Palestinian people. The UN is reporting Gaza is facing an apocalypse. Entire population facing death by violence, starvation, and disease.

Of course you can blame it on the terrorists and ignore the root causes of the conflict.

To me it is obvious from the reporting directly from Gaza Israel is taking the opportunity to inflict as mach damage and casualies on the entire Palestinian population as possible.

I do not see much difference between Putin and Netanyahu. Cold dispassionate killing and destruction in the name of nationalism and expansion.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If a US Solider was close enough to shoot her in a manner that could have had her been rescued, he was close enough to say "holy shit I just shot a 9 year old girl."

Maybe he did.

And while that is bad enough, she was a US Citizen that Trump had ordered killed. A US Citizen. Doesn't the lack of due process there bother you even a little?

Lots of things bother me. Killing civilians with or without due process bothers ne a lot. Making unsubstantiated claims of fact like Trump ordered thus girl’s death bothers me a little.

But he did sign the order for the raid that resulted in her death.

Your claim that killing civilians without due process bothers you a lot would be a lot more credible if you weren't so nonchalant about it. Do you support Trump in this instance?

This happened in 2017 and you bring it up now? I’m as nonchalant as you.

No, I don’t support the killing of civilians.

I still bring up the killing of Anwar Al-Awlaki.

Still, I'm surprised. Everyone here hates Trump. Here is something Trump did wrong. Nobody except me is calling him on it.

If you really don't support the killing of civilians, you'd bring it up too.

Why is this case being singled out? Civilians sometimes die in war. Even the best armies sometimes hit noncombatants. What's important is what percent of the dead are civilian, not whether there is at least one dead civilian.

As for that ratio, some data from Israeli attacks in Syria:

https://www.syriahr.com/en/348125/

269 combatants, 48 civilians. And this is not remotely an Israeli source.

 

[DrZoidberg]

The Israeli government said if Trump gets elected they will move their border into Gaza ''as punishment'. They have seized Gaza land before, nothing new, the primary cause of the conflict is nland taken by Israel.

Israel in the West Bank over decades has colonized and pushed Palestinians into smaller areas in a small area to begin with. Isolated pockets.

It is the end of Palestinian people. The UN is reporting Gaza is facing an apocalypse. Entire population facing death by violence, starvation, and disease.

Of course you can blame it on the terrorists and ignore the root causes of the conflict.

To me it is obvious from the reporting directly from Gaza Israel is taking the opportunity to inflict as mach damage and casualies on the entire Palestinian population as possible.

I do not see much difference between Putin and Netanyahu. Cold dispassionate killing and destruction in the name of nationalism and expansion.

That's a retarded way to frame it. 21% of Israelis are Palestinians. They’re also "gaining" land if Gaza loses land.

The cause of the war is Palestinian fanaticism and their inability to accept that they can't bully Israel to do anything

 

[Derec]

I’d like to see the genocide in Palestine stopped.

What genocide? Other than the attempted genocide by Hamas et al.

The Muslims in Michigan wouldn’t vote for Harris because she wouldn’t take a hard line against Palestine.

Isn't a "hard line against Palestine" what Netanyahu is taking? Did you mean "against Israel"?

I think that was a dumb stance given the alternative.

It is. As are all "I won't vote for X because they are not sufficiently ideologically pure" stances.

 

[Derec]

I've always tried to support Israel, the October attack was horrific and they have every right to defend themselves. But no more. fuck Israel - or at least as long as Netanyahu is in power. I'd love to see dems grow a pair of balls over Israel.

How do you propose Israel defend itself against an enemy that hides in civilian areas without there being significant civilian casualties?

That's the real reason they lost. They're actually too conservative. I wonder if they will go the way of the Liberal Party in England? Replaced by the Greens or a new Social Democrats Party? People want a real alternative and the dems just don't really present one.

The Liberal Party was never one of the major parties I don't think. That they are a factor at all is a bit of an aberration of the Duverger's Law.
I do not think Dems are too conservative. They moved to the left a lot in the last 10 years. That's why Kamala was burdened with having to walk back positions she took in 2019 - like the one about banning fracking.