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Israel’s One-State Reality

Reading this article really changed my perception of the conflict. It retrospect it shouldn't have, because it was obvious all along, I was just too stupid to notice.

I would like for those here more supportive of Israel to read it and comment on it.
I only had to get as far as:

"a Greater Israel defined not just as a Jewish state but one in which the law enshrines Jewish supremacy over all Palestinians who remain there."
to stop caring that it's behind a paywall.

There's plenty of anti-Jewish bigotry in the UN, Western media, and this thread to be more than sufficient.
Tom
Really? You think the article is antisemitic?
I couldn't read it due to the paywall.

But the statement I could read and quoted was obviously anti-Jewish bigotry.

I avoid using the word anti-Semitic because it's painfully vague and emotive, to the point of useless.
Tom
 
yet you, DrZoidberg, and TomC seem to single me out with this 'Hamas puppet' nonsense. Wonder why.
Disagree. They do it to us all.
We commonly disagree with extreme vitriol.
But nobody in this hot button thread has been as vitriolic and then played the race card like Gospel.
Tom
Do you have an actual point? Playing a _____ card is rational if it is accurate. Given the persistent, vehement anti-Palestinian bigotry displayed in this thread, it does not seem inaccurate. And it is certainly closer to home than the "pro-Hamas apologist", "anti-semite", and "you want Israel destroyed" slanders that are flung on a regular basis.
 
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Yes, "obviously anti-Jewish bigotry" is so much more restrained. :rolleyes:

But that was rather selective quoting by you there.
 
Israel’s One-State Reality

Reading this article really changed my perception of the conflict. It retrospect it shouldn't have, because it was obvious all along, I was just too stupid to notice.

I would like for those here more supportive of Israel to read it and comment on it.
I only had to get as far as:

"a Greater Israel defined not just as a Jewish state but one in which the law enshrines Jewish supremacy over all Palestinians who remain there."
to stop caring that it's behind a paywall.

There's plenty of anti-Jewish bigotry in the UN, Western media, and this thread to be more than sufficient.
Tom
Really? You think the article is antisemitic?
I couldn't read it due to the paywall.

But the statement I could read and quoted was obviously anti-Jewish bigotry.

I avoid using the word anti-Semitic because it's painfully vague and emotive, to the point of useless.
Tom
You do realize there are Zionist who back that statement you claim is obviously anti-Jewish bigotry.
 
yet you, DrZoidberg, and TomC seem to single me out with this 'Hamas puppet' nonsense. Wonder why.
Disagree. They do it to us all.
We commonly disagree with extreme vitriol.
But nobody in this hot button thread has been as vitriolic and then played the race card like Gospel.
Tom
Do you have an actual point? Playing a _____ card is rational if it is accurate. Given the persistent, vehement anti-Palestinian bigotry displayed in this thread, it does not seem inaccurate. And it is certainly closer to home than the "pro-Hamas apologist", "anti-semite", and "you want Israel destroyed" slanders that are flung on a regular basis.
Do you really think that I find Gospel's opinions appalling because he's black?

No, I find all the similar opinions appalling. He's the only one playing the race card.
Tom
 
yet you, DrZoidberg, and TomC seem to single me out with this 'Hamas puppet' nonsense. Wonder why.
Disagree. They do it to us all.
We commonly disagree with extreme vitriol.
But nobody in this hot button thread has been as vitriolic and then played the race card like Gospel.
Tom
Do you have an actual point? Playing a _____ card is rational if it is accurate. Given the persistent, vehement anti-Palestinian bigotry displayed in this thread, it does not seem inaccurate. And it is certainly closer to home than the "pro-Hamas apologist", "anti-semite", and "you want Israel destroyed" slanders that are flung on a regular basis.
Do you really think that I find Gospel's opinions appalling because he's black?
Perhaps you could explain the source of that straw man.

TomC said:
No, I find all the similar opinions appalling. He's the only one playing the race card.
Tom
He’s not. You, Dr Z and LP play race cards, just different “suits”.
 
Perhaps you could explain the source of that straw man.
. So I’m done. You don’t have to trouble yourselves with the opinions of this brown person anymore.
That's just one.

I don't respond to @Gospel anymore because it's his pattern and I don't care about him anymore. He's a racist, IMNSHO.
Tom
 
yet you, DrZoidberg, and TomC seem to single me out with this 'Hamas puppet' nonsense. Wonder why.
Disagree. They do it to us all.

I get why it might feel that way, your views often line up with mine, so when I’m targeted, you end up getting caught in the crossfire by association. And yeah, you’ve spoken up in my defense, but that’s just it, it’s in my defense. To be fair, I haven’t seen them directly label you a Hamas propagandist. :rolleyes:
As far as I can tell, Loren has labelled us all Hamas propagandists and Dr Z has called us all anti semites.
 
As far as I can tell, Loren has labelled us all Hamas propagandists and Dr X has called us all anti semites
Anybody who confuses the Gazan use of civilians as cannon fodder/human shields for Israeli collective punishment qualifies as a Hamas propagandist.
But I would prefer that Dr Z stopped using antisemitism and used the more precise terms like anti-Jewish or anti-Zionism.
Tom
 
Your wrote -
Do you really think that I find Gospel's opinions appalling because he's black?
To which I replied
Perhaps you could explain the source of that straw man.

Your reply of
Perhaps you could explain the source of that straw man.
. So I’m done. You don’t have to trouble yourselves with the opinions of this brown person anymore.
That's just one.
Is non-responsive for a number of reasons. First, your question was to me about what I thought. Your reply above has nothing whatsoever with my thinking or views. Second, I can think of a number of interpretations of Gospel’s reply that has nothing to do with his accusation of racism.[/quote][/QUOTE]
 
As far as I can tell, Loren has labelled us all Hamas propagandists and Dr X has called us all anti semites
Anybody who confuses the Gazan use of civilians as cannon fodder/human shields for Israeli collective punishment qualifies as a Hamas propagandist.
That is illogical observation is exactly the kind of bigoted slander you sling on a regular basis.
 
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He’s not. You, Dr Z and LP play race cards, just different “suits”.
Please be more specific. Where, exactly, did any of us play a race card?
This is but a sample.
From DrZoidberg
“The Palestinians have had 70 years to stop trying to murder Jews at every opportunity...” (Post 7863)
Yes, Muslims (and everybody else who wants to live in peace with their neighours) have to accept that they're not the master race. “ (Post 7743)

From you
“But as long as the Palestinians don't want to get rid of leadership like Hamas, enough to get it done, the best bet Israel has is destroying the ability to launch military attacks like Oct 7.” Post 4029

From LP
“With anything related to Israel/Palestine, figure that anything that should be there but is missing is favorable to Israel. You will almost never be wrong.” Post 9199

TomC said:
Or is this just another strawman argument?
Tom
Oh, the irony, it stings so much.
 
Israel’s One-State Reality

Reading this article really changed my perception of the conflict. It retrospect it shouldn't have, because it was obvious all along, I was just too stupid to notice.

I would like for those here more supportive of Israel to read it and comment on it.
I only had to get as far as:

"a Greater Israel defined not just as a Jewish state but one in which the law enshrines Jewish supremacy over all Palestinians who remain there."
to stop caring that it's behind a paywall.

There's plenty of anti-Jewish bigotry in the UN, Western media, and this thread to be more than sufficient.
Tom
Really? You think the article is antisemitic?
I couldn't read it due to the paywall.

But the statement I could read and quoted was obviously anti-Jewish bigotry.

I avoid using the word anti-Semitic because it's painfully vague and emotive, to the point of useless.
Tom
What part of that was anti-Jewish bigotry?

Israel's Supreme Court has ruled against allowing people to identify themselves as Israeli on their national ID cards because it would have "weighty implications" for the preservation of Israel's founding principle of being a Jewish state for the Jewish people.

Netanyahu himself has said Israel "is the national state, not of all its citizens, but only of the Jewish people."

Was it the use of the word "supremacy" that offended you? If so, then what do you make of Smotrich and Ben Gvir expressing that exact sentiment and Netanyahu endorsing it?

Are they anti-Jewish for saying it, or do you think the Times of Israel, the Jerusalem Post, etc. are anti-Jewish for reporting what they say?
 
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Israel’s One-State Reality

Reading this article really changed my perception of the conflict. It retrospect it shouldn't have, because it was obvious all along, I was just too stupid to notice.

I would like for those here more supportive of Israel to read it and comment on it.

I think that’s a solid and thought-provoking article. Unfortunately, I suspect many will dismiss it by focusing on perceived bias rather than engaging with the core facts it presents. I used to support the two-state solution as the most realistic and just outcome. But looking at the current situation, expanding settlements, political fragmentation among Palestinians, rising extremism on both sides, and the repeated collapse of meaningful negotiations , it’s becoming harder to see that path as viable anymore.

That’s not solely the fault of one side; it’s the result of a long chain of missteps, bad-faith actions, and missed opportunities by multiple actors , Israeli, Palestinian, regional, and international. The article does a decent job confronting that reality.
I too support a secular, liberal democratic single state between the river and the sea as the resolution of the conflict.
 

You say famine claims always predicted mass deaths, and because there weren’t piles of corpses, the warnings were false. But famine isn’t a Hollywood battlefield. It’s kids wasting silently, organs failing, immune systems collapsing. You dismiss all that because it isn’t dramatic enough for your proof standard. That’s not analysis. That’s willful blindness to human suffering.
That's supposed to be a rebuttal?

Claim: mass deaths.
Observation: Hamas can't find said deaths.
Conclusion: Claim is garbage.

You trust Israel’s combatant death claims because “they’re usually within 10%,” yet dismiss every other source wholesale. That’s not skepticism. That’s loyalty masquerading as rigor. If Hamas lied about one hospital blast, that doesn’t erase every death report in a flattened city. It just gives you a convenient excuse to never look closer.
I look at history.
You say Hamas can’t “present the dead,” so mass death must not exist. That’s grotesque logic. Bodies don’t vanish because Hamas fails PR. They vanish under rubble, under siege, under destroyed medical systems. Your standard is simple: if it isn’t paraded before you on camera, it doesn’t count.
Hamas is very, very good at PR. If they don't have something to parade before the cameras and there isn't a good reason they don't have it, assume the claim is false.

You dismiss Amnesty and HRW as propaganda because they reported what you don’t want to hear. Meanwhile, you take IDF statements at face value as if military PR is pure gospel. That’s not consistency. That’s ideological filtering disguised as skepticism.
I've already showed you why I dismiss them. You understood it. Yet you go right back to pretending they're credible.

You claim Geneva “has no problem” with bombing civilian blocks over tunnels. Read it again. Proportionality isn’t just about hitting a valid target. It’s about ensuring civilian harm isn’t excessive relative to military gain. “Call ahead then bomb entire neighborhoods” isn’t humanitarian law. It’s just war sanitized for your conscience.
And you have never established that proportionality was violated. You're just using it as a magic word.

You say they “bent over backwards” to evacuate. Thousands are dead. Entire families wiped out in their homes. Calling it proportional just because someone made a phone call first is moral anesthesia, not legal clarity.
The average deaths per bomb in that phase of the war was well under 1. The only way that's possible is if they did a very good effort at evacuation.

And, yes, sometimes entire families were wiped out. That's not the same thing as blowing the tunnels, though. When a family is wiped out look at the man of the house--almost certainly they'll be one of Hamas' senior people.

Finally, you say you’re analyzing while I’m just “starting from Israel-is-bad.” No. I start from human lives mattering, regardless of flag or faction. You start from Israel’s innocence as a given. That’s why your analysis never changes – it’s engineered to never find fault.
No. Look at our discussion about the civilian casualty ratio. I pointed out that Israel does a far better job than anyone else and your response was to say I was blaming all the other western powers. That makes no sense unless your starting point is that Israeli casualties are excessive.

This is the logic of someone mistaking a press release for a morgue log. The absence of televised bodies in a warzone with bombed hospitals, buried families, and a collapsed civil registry isn’t proof of falsehood — it’s the reality of infrastructure collapse. You’re demanding battlefield journalism from beneath pancaked concrete, and calling the silence a lie.

No — you cherry-pick history. When Hamas lies, you cite it forever. When Israel misleads, you give them a 10% margin of honor. You’re not reviewing patterns. You’re locking in conclusions and trimming facts to fit them.

That’s not skepticism — that’s outsourcing your entire sense of morality to a terrorist group’s camera crew. You’re giving Hamas editorial control over your empathy. If they don’t film a dying child, you declare that child imaginary. That’s not logic. That’s learned indifference.

I understood your rationale. I didn’t say it held up. You dismiss every group whose findings contradict your preferred story, then cite military sources with zero critical pressure. The standard shifts not based on method — but on conclusion.

Proportionality isn’t a slogan. It’s the legal measure of military necessity against civilian harm. You treat tunnels under apartments as green lights for flattening blocks. But Geneva doesn’t give you moral clearance just because a tunnel was beneath the kitchen. The burden is on the attacker to prove restraint — not just intent, but effect. You treat that burden like a footnote.

Statistics don’t replace scrutiny. Mass death isn’t even across strikes — it concentrates in errors and high-value hits. One hospital, one refugee camp, one misidentified building — that’s all it takes. And when a whole family dies, you say “look at the father” as if that voids the rest. That’s not proportionality. That’s guilt by association, scaled up to neighborhoods.

No. I’m starting from: mass death requires moral scrutiny. You’re the one starting from innocence. That’s why any critique becomes bias, any dead child becomes an acceptable statistic, and any law that gets in the way becomes a “magic word.” You’ve already decided the verdict — I’m just refusing to look away from the evidence.

NHC
 
If we accept Hamas data at face value we still end up with Israel doing far better than the good guys. At face value we get about 1.5 civilians per combatant. Typical western performance is around 10 to 1.

You say Israel’s civilian kill ratio is “far better than typical Western performance” – as if mass death becomes noble once it’s below an arbitrary benchmark. That’s not ethics. That’s moral accountancy: body counts as branding metrics.
You still aren't explaining how their 1.5:1 is immoral compared to the typical 10:1.

You keep citing 1.5:1 like it’s a badge of honor. Tell that to the parents burying children. Tell it to the families wiped out in collapsed apartments. “Better than average” is not the standard for decency – it’s just the floor beneath which your conscience refuses to sink.
It is a badge of honor--job very well done.

You keep going with emotional arguments--do you not realize that you are basically admitting the facts don't support you?

Finally, you accuse me of blasphemy because I won’t bow to your calculations. You’re right in one way: if your god is moral relativism, then yes, I’m a heretic. I think no child’s death is excusable just because the ratio looks good on a Geneva PowerPoint.
Once again, you utterly fail to comprehend.

I'm not saying your words are blasphemy. I'm saying you are treating my words as blasphemy and not understanding them. They are sufficiently different from your worldview that you have very little comprehension, nor do you retain the information even when you do understand.

You say 1.5:1 is a “job very well done,” as if the only moral threshold worth caring about is whether Israel kills fewer civilians than the U.S. did in Fallujah. But here’s what you miss: no family grieves less because the ratio was good. No child’s death is softened by statistical comparison. You’re confusing technical performance with moral clarity.

You say I rely on emotion — as if facts and empathy are mutually exclusive. No, Lauren. What I’m saying is that your entire position reduces morality to math: if the numbers look better than NATO’s worst day, then everything’s fine. But war isn’t graded on a curve. “Fewer corpses than usual” is not a defense — it’s an indictment of how low the bar is.

You accuse me of misunderstanding you. But I understand perfectly. You believe your argument is airtight because it adds up numerically. What you refuse to confront is this: decency isn’t proven by ratios. The point isn’t whether Israel performs “better than average.” The point is whether we’re willing to normalize mass civilian death as just part of the scorecard.

And when I challenge that, you call it a comprehension failure. It’s not. It’s disagreement. You’ve built a worldview so insulated by military math and moral triage that anything that doesn’t speak in metrics sounds like heresy. I’m not rejecting comprehension. I’m rejecting your premise: that a “good war” is one with the cleanest graveyard.

NHC
 

You say I’m pretending solutions will work, but what you’re really saying is that nothing short of domination is realistic. That’s not pragmatism – it’s fatalism with a flag draped over it.
No. It's not fatalism to recognize that a particular problem is the result of outside forces.

You claim despair didn’t exist before 1948 or the Second Intifada. That’s a historical erasure so sweeping it borders on delusion. Gaza was under Egyptian military rule before 1967 and endured poverty, neglect, and refugee camp life long before Hamas even existed. You talk about despair like it’s a PR campaign, not a generational reality built on dispossession, siege, and daily humiliation.
"Refugee camp" life because they were kept that way by their Arab masters to use as cannon fodder. What I was referring to was their economy--amongst their peers (Arab nations without oil) they had the #1 economy.

You say you see symbols misused, so they lose protection. Geneva doesn’t work that way. The misuse of a hospital doesn’t erase the hundreds of real patients inside. The misuse of an ambulance doesn’t make every injured child in it a combatant. You’re just looking for moral shortcuts to avoid wrestling with complexity.
Read. Misused becomes a valid target. At that point it's treated as anything else it's like subject to the proportionality bit that you continue to misunderstand.

Finally, you accuse me of parroting Hamas lies because I insist on human rights as non-negotiable. That’s your tell. You’ve fused decency with enemy propaganda in your mind, so anything demanding restraint or empathy feels like treason.
I accuse you of parroting Hamas because you are. They don't care that you think they're evil, they care that you are attempting to protect them.

If you think dignity and basic protection are illusions, then the only spell here is the one you’ve cast on yourself – to see cruelty as realism, and resignation as wisdom.
You have an utterly unrealistic view of war. And an utterly unrealistic view of the evil Hamas readily commits.

Lauren, let’s walk through this, piece by piece — not with slogans, but with clarity.

You say it’s not fatalism to blame “outside forces,” but that’s exactly the dodge. You hand agency to everyone except the side wielding the tanks, the jets, and the siege. Saying “someone else made us do it” is just geopolitical victimhood with better PR. And it’s a tired excuse for policies that punish civilians more than fighters.

You claim Gaza’s despair came from being used by “Arab masters,” then pivot to praising their old economy. But refugee camp life isn’t an economic footnote — it’s the lived reality of inherited statelessness. And yes, that despair predates Hamas, predates 2000, and predates your talking points. You keep cropping the timeline to avoid what created the conditions for extremism in the first place.

As for hospitals and ambulances — Geneva doesn’t say “if it’s misused, flatten it.” It says protections can be lost in specific cases, not permanently stripped from all structures of care. That’s why proportionality matters. You don’t get to say “we called ahead” and then justify mass casualties as legally clean. It’s not a doorbell. It’s war. And the rules are stricter, not looser, because of it.

You say I’m “parroting Hamas” for demanding basic restraint. That’s your tell. You’ve fused any demand for humanity with complicity. It’s not that you think I’m wrong — it’s that you think even raising the issue makes me the enemy. That’s how accountability dies.

Finally, your reply about my “unrealistic view of war” just proves the point. You think realism means accepting cruelty as strategy. I think realism means confronting cruelty and refusing to excuse it — even when it’s convenient, even when it’s your side.

Because if your version of realism requires permanent siege, displaced families, and starving children to keep a flag safe — then what exactly is left worth protecting?

NHC
 

You say Geneva only mentions “diversion,” not combat. Let’s read it plainly: diversion for enemy use. Food diverted to fighters is not legitimate cause to starve civilians. Fighters eating bread doesn’t nullify the obligation to keep civilians alive. You’re redefining diversion to mean any aid Hamas touches – that’s not law, it’s loophole hunting to justify siege.
Hamas was taking it, using it to control the people and selling it to get money for their payroll. That is clearly military use.

And you continue to not understand that Geneva imposes no obligation whatsoever on the besieging power to address misconduct by the sieged power.

You claim “there’s no doubt about diversion.” Funny how certainty only ever points toward collective punishment. Show the proof that bread and insulin are systematically rerouted to weapons stockpiles. Otherwise, you’re arguing civilians should die because you can’t separate them cleanly from their rulers. That’s exactly what collective punishment is.
You really need to get a dictionary. You still don't understand "punishment" in the context of Geneva.
You demand where Geneva imposes alternative arrangements. Start with Articles 23 and 59, then read the ICRC commentary: if direct passage fails, parties must negotiate means to ensure aid reaches civilians. That principle is embedded in customary IHL: humane treatment isn’t optional because distribution is complicated.
Must negotiate. Hamas isn't negotiating. They are simply killing people for not going through Hamas. Once again, Hamas commits evil and you blame Israel.

You say diversion was happening, as if that ends the discussion. No, it begins it. The question is whether that diversion justified mass starvation. “Some is stolen” has never been a legal basis to cut off all aid. That’s moral cowardice posing as pragmatism.
Geneva merely says probability of diversion, doesn't even require it to have happened.

You argue Israel gets “complete say.” Wrong. Israel has the right to regulate for security, not to weaponize starvation as leverage. Your reading turns international law into a dictatorship’s handbook.
Again, your magic words that you don't understand. They aren't weaponizing it, they're simply interfering with Hamas weaponizing it.

You call me diseased for believing there must be an answer. That’s your confession: you’ve given up. You think because it’s hard, we’re permitted to abandon decency. If you truly believed there’s no answer, you wouldn’t waste time defending cruelty as strategy. You’d just admit it’s all about punishment dressed up as realism.
I didn't say diseased. But it is a serious flaw. You grasp at straws to find answers and end up taking wildly wrong actions.

You blame Hamas for exploiting kids, so you wash your hands of the starvation those kids endure. That’s not analysis. That’s moral outsourcing.
It's not my job to take the food from Hamas and give it to the kid.
You keep citing “dual use” as a blank cheque for attacks. Dual use triggers proportionality analysis, not immunity from accountability. You collapse complexity into excuses because anything more honest would force you to grapple with these civilian lives as human.
Magic words again. You think proportionality automatically makes Israel wrong.

You demand proof that Israel struck civilian sites. Your own military acknowledged airstrikes that hit schools and hospitals later found not to contain Hamas infrastructure. You dismiss Israeli apologies as PR, but happily cite IDF claims when they suit you. That’s not skepticism. It’s selective trust to maintain your moral comfort.
Strawman.

You're saying "infrastructure". Note that that does not mean they did not contain Hamas.

The study showed radicalization correlates with oppression – not that oppression is the only factor. My point wasn’t that Palestinians radicalize because Israel oppresses them, but that oppression fuels radicalization. Your analogy to incels collapses because incels radicalize despite privilege, while Palestinians radicalize under siege and daily violence. That’s not the same psychology. That’s comparing loneliness to military occupation.
And you fail to understand.

There unquestionably is a relationship. That does not prove that it's the only path, nor does it prove the oppression is real.

Gazans radicalize because that's what their schools teach.

Let’s be clear, Lauren — you’re not defending law. You’re redefining it so no action, no matter how cruel, ever violates it. And that’s the difference between law as principle and law as excuse.

You say Hamas rerouting aid for payroll equals “military use.” But Geneva isn’t a tax code. “Military use” means direct advantage in the conflict — not controlling bakeries or paying salaries. Even if some food gets diverted, you don’t starve civilians to hit a payroll office. You don’t bomb a pharmacy to keep someone from reselling aspirin.

You accuse me of misusing the word “punishment,” but your whole framework depends on erasing what’s happening. When you cut off insulin because a terrorist might get calories from the same aid truck, that is punishment. The goal is to make civilians suffer so Hamas loses control — you’ve admitted as much. Geneva doesn’t care whether you use the word “punishment” or “pressure.” The outcome defines the crime.

You say Hamas isn’t negotiating, so aid doesn’t need to be delivered. That’s not how obligations work. When you hold the gates, the burden is on you to find a workaround. Geneva doesn’t say “humanitarian access contingent on the other side being cooperative.” It says civilians don’t lose rights because their rulers are criminals. That’s not me blaming Israel for Hamas’s evil. That’s me refusing to let Hamas be the excuse for everything.

You claim “Geneva only requires probability of diversion.” No, it allows delay for security screening, not full obstruction. It doesn’t say “if you’re worried, block everything.” That’s your invention — turning risk into veto power. If that standard applied, no aid would ever enter any warzone.

And again, you say Israel has total authority. That’s not regulation. That’s strangulation. International law doesn’t hand the jailer the keys and say “do what you want.”

As for your accusation that I “grasp at straws” looking for solutions — better that than clinging to barbed wire like it’s a life raft. You think calling hope a weakness ends the debate. It doesn’t. It just reveals how far you’ve internalized cruelty as the only viable policy.

You say “it’s not my job to take the food from Hamas and give it to the kid.” But the policy you defend is doing the opposite: keeping the food from the kid because Hamas might touch it. You call that realism. I call it engineered suffering.

You say proportionality doesn’t “automatically make Israel wrong.” Of course it doesn’t. It forces us to ask: was there an alternative? Was the harm excessive? Was this target worth an entire family buried alive? And every time, you skip those questions — not because you answered them, but because you’re afraid they might matter.

You brush off Israeli airstrikes hitting schools and hospitals as “not disproving Hamas was there.” But your own logic demands evidence before calling someone a terrorist. Suddenly, when it’s a bomb crater instead of a ballot, your standards disappear.

Finally, on radicalization: You say Gaza kids become extremists because schools teach hate. But what do you think daily siege, destroyed homes, and dead relatives teach them? You want to treat textbooks like the root of everything and ignore the missiles falling outside their classrooms.

If your argument is that cruelty justifies more cruelty, and blockade justifies forgetting the law — then say it plainly. But don’t dress it up as clarity or courage.

It’s not strength to stop believing in law when it’s hardest to uphold. It’s surrender. Disguised as principle.

NHC
 

You keep calling death counts “irrelevant” because they don’t affect your strategy conclusions. But for everyone under the rubble, they are the only reality. Saying “it’s irrelevant” isn’t analysis – it’s moral disengagement repackaged as pragmatism.
I say they are irrelevant because even if you accept the Hamas numbers it doesn't prove what you think it proves. I believe reality lies somewhere between the Israeli combatant count of 20,000 and the Hamas count of 60,000. But no value in this range makes any difference in evaluating the war, so it doesn't matter.

I’m not blaming Israel for that misfire. I’m pointing out your tactic: one exposed lie becomes your license to dismiss every death report. You obsess over timestamps while ignoring the broader reality – civilians are dying daily, with or without that hospital strike. You use one fraudulent claim to wash your hands of every real corpse.
Your broader reality is standing on a house of illusionary cards.

I obsess over timestamps because they show a video that purports to be of an event, but does not show the time at which the event happened. That's clear evidence they didn't care about the truth. And they should have somebody who knows a little bit about war doing the coverage for war--they would have known that there's no weapon in existence that could have done it.

So every local medic, fixer, morgue worker, and NGO staffer is lying out of fear? That’s convenient. You erase every single source as tainted so nothing can ever challenge your narrative. That isn’t realism. It’s selective blindness.
Yes, they are lying out of fear. What's so hard to understand about that? To go on record telling the truth would get you killed.

No, I think you’re redefining them out of civilian status to justify anything. Birth registrars, sewage workers, teachers – these aren’t valid targets under any law. Calling them “underlings” doesn’t erase their humanity.
And nobody's going to be shooting at them, either.

And when cutting Hamas control means children starve with no replacement in place, what do you call that outcome? Strategic brilliance? Because from the outside, it just looks like collective punishment dressed as policy.
So the evil can prevail by killing kids.

You treat proportionality as a death ratio when it also weighs alternatives and foreseeability – tests you ignore. On intent, you claim civilians are hit by accident every time, as if near-total aerial surveillance produces permanent accidents. You dismiss alternatives because they’d require giving up total control. That isn’t rigor. It’s moral laziness.
Magic words with no relevance.

And it's not by accident, it by Hamas intent.
No, satellites identify burial activity which field teams then corroborate. You dismiss all triangulated evidence because partial proof is still proof – and your worldview can’t tolerate even that crack in certainty.
And you think there are field teams? What are you smoking?!
10/7 was catastrophic. Nothing I’ve said denies that. But your logic stops there: Hamas committed an atrocity, therefore any scale of civilian death in response is justified. That’s not strategy. That’s moral vengeance. Both can be true: Hamas is guilty, and Israel is choosing mass suffering. You refuse to hold both truths.
You fail to understand war.

Israel is free to continue the war against Hamas so long as Hamas does not surrender. And Israel is expected to do as good a job as possible at avoiding killing civilians. But there is no bag limit. The total dead proves nothing.

You say casualty numbers “don’t matter” because they don’t change your view of the war. That’s not strategy — it’s moral insulation. When your framework tells you tens of thousands of corpses, whether 20,000 or 60,000, change nothing about how you judge a war, that’s not clarity. That’s numbness repackaged as reason.

You obsess over the hospital video timestamp as proof of fraud, but never ask why your outrage over one misreported blast lets you sidestep every other one. One lie, in your logic, justifies total blindness — even when the rubble keeps piling up. You want coverage to be perfect in a siege zone, yet accept military justification on press release alone. That’s not skepticism. It’s asymmetric doubt.

You say yes, everyone is lying out of fear. That includes doctors, drivers, translators, NGO workers. All of them. What a convenient way to filter out all ground truth. You don’t even question the moral cost of making fear your standard for dismissal. Instead of asking why people fear Hamas, or how they work around it, you flatten the entire info landscape to preserve your comfort.

You say no one is targeting birth registrars or teachers — but when their offices are bombed, when schools are reduced to ash, you shrug. You refuse to see the people in these jobs as civilians in a civic infrastructure because once you do, it disrupts your clean “valid target” calculus. This is why the law matters — because it draws a line your narrative keeps trying to erase.

You say “so the evil can prevail by killing kids,” as if killing the kids yourself is the answer. That’s the moral endgame of your argument: Hamas is evil, therefore anything Israel does in pursuit of stopping them is fine, even if children are starved in the process. You’re so focused on blocking Hamas’s leverage, you’ve forgotten children aren’t leverage. They’re people.

You call proportionality “magic words” while defending a strategy that flattens cities. You treat foreseeability and alternatives as fluff, even though they’re foundational legal tests. You say Hamas is the one causing the deaths — but then why is the military with the drones, surveillance, and air power the one doing the bombing? “Hamas bad” doesn’t erase your side’s choices.

You laugh off the idea that field teams exist. Do you think every satellite photo is analyzed in a vacuum? Who do you think compiles casualty lists, logs burial records, cross-references witness accounts? It’s not magic — it’s how wartime documentation happens. And yes, people still risk their lives to do it. You dismiss all that with a sneer, because any source of data threatens your certainty.

And finally, your logic on 10/7 is the purest example of what’s wrong with this posture. Yes, Hamas committed a horrific atrocity. Yes, Israel has the right to defend itself. But you act like that license never expires, never hits a red line, never requires recalibration. You say “there’s no bag limit,” as if this is sport. As if there’s no point where the cost outweighs the pursuit.

That’s not the logic of war. That’s the logic of vengeance.

This is the reality: Hamas’s crimes don’t disappear because you condemn them. Israel’s don’t disappear because you believe they’re fighting the “right enemy.” And the bodies under the rubble don’t vanish because you’ve convinced yourself they’re not worth counting.

You say I don’t understand war. I understand it’s ugly, it’s cruel, and it’s easy to excuse — which is why we created laws to stop that slope. You’ve chosen to slide all the way down it, waving a legal banner while closing your eyes to what it’s protecting you from seeing.

NHC
 
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