Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[TomC]

Speak for yourself.

I do know a bit about it which is why I know that Israel didn't invent ethnic cleansing since October 7.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

Speak for yourself.

I do know a bit about it which is why I know that Israel didn't invent ethnic cleansing since October 7.
Tom

Ethnic cleansing has been around for centuries all over the globe. The text of your post refutes itself.

 

[TomC]

Speak for yourself.

I do know a bit about it which is why I know that Israel didn't invent ethnic cleansing since October 7.
Tom

Ethnic cleansing has been around for centuries all over the globe. The text of your post refutes itself.

Whose ethnic cleansing of which region are you talking about? Israel is most assuredly but slowly engaging in ethnic cleansing in the West Bank. And, if exit from Gaza were easier and less costly, I suspect it would be just about empty. So, IMO, Israel is fine with ethnic cleansing as long as they are the cleaners.

Do you know what region we're talking about? That ethnic cleansing has been attempted multiple times before, just since WWII, in that region? The targets have usually been Jews?

You don't seem to know that stuff.

That Zionists don't care what Muslims get up to when it is not a danger to Jews?
Tom

 

[Cognoscenti324]

I wonder if beliefs like the following could explain Israel's comfort with killing children?

Rav Yosef says: Come and hear a resolution from a mishna (Nidda 44b): A girl who is three years and one day old whose father arranged her betrothal is betrothed with intercourse, as the legal status of intercourse with her is that of full-fledged intercourse. And in a case where the childless husband of a girl who is three years and one day old dies, if his brother, the yavam, engages in intercourse with her, he acquires her as his wife; and if she is married, a man other than her husband is liable for engaging in intercourse with her due to the prohibition of intercourse with a married woman. - Sanhedrin 55B

This bizarre level of anti -Jewish bias is probably why I come across as more staunchly Zionist, in this thread, than I really am.
Tom

Citing rabbinical ideas is anti-Jewish? Ok….

 

[TomC]

Citing rabbinical ideas is anti-Jewish? Ok….

When the post starts with:

I wonder if beliefs like the following could explain Israel's comfort with killing children?

Then yeah, your post is viciously anti-jewish.
Tom

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

If my understanding is relatively accurate, your characterization is based on false assumptions.

In what way is the characterization based on false assumptions?
Tom

That the intermediaries did not talk with Israel.

Well, if they didn't talk with Israel, what is the point of your complaint?
Tom

I pointed out that the argument was based on the false assumption that Egypt had not talked with Israel. That means Egypt had talked with Israel at some point. We don't know what parameters (if any) Israel gave the intermediaries, but at no time has Israel pooh-poohed these talks which strongly suggests that they know what is going on.

That's not what you actually said,it

It is true, I did not use those exact words in that order. Apparently I gave my audience greater credit. I apologize.

No, no, please give us back the credit or at least the majority of us. We understood.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I wonder if beliefs like the following could explain Israel's comfort with killing children?

Rav Yosef says: Come and hear a resolution from a mishna (Nidda 44b): A girl who is three years and one day old whose father arranged her betrothal is betrothed with intercourse, as the legal status of intercourse with her is that of full-fledged intercourse. And in a case where the childless husband of a girl who is three years and one day old dies, if his brother, the yavam, engages in intercourse with her, he acquires her as his wife; and if she is married, a man other than her husband is liable for engaging in intercourse with her due to the prohibition of intercourse with a married woman. - Sanhedrin 55B

This bizarre level of anti -Jewish bias is probably why I come across as more staunchly Zionist, in this thread, than I really am.
Tom

Citing rabbinical ideas is anti-Jewish? Ok….

Well your very first sentence is incredibly bigoted. Then you cite some bizzare quote “rabbinal idea” to describe how all Jews think? Most Jews I know are atheist. But do you think it would be fair to describe Americans as people who get their values from Leviticus?

 

[TomC]

I wonder if beliefs like the following could explain Israel's comfort with killing children?

Rav Yosef says: Come and hear a resolution from a mishna (Nidda 44b): A girl who is three years and one day old whose father arranged her betrothal is betrothed with intercourse, as the legal status of intercourse with her is that of full-fledged intercourse. And in a case where the childless husband of a girl who is three years and one day old dies, if his brother, the yavam, engages in intercourse with her, he acquires her as his wife; and if she is married, a man other than her husband is liable for engaging in intercourse with her due to the prohibition of intercourse with a married woman. - Sanhedrin 55B

This bizarre level of anti -Jewish bias is probably why I come across as more staunchly Zionist, in this thread, than I really am.
Tom

Citing rabbinical ideas is anti-Jewish? Ok….

Well your very first sentence is incredibly bigoted. Then you cite some bizzare quote “rabbinal idea” to describe how all Jews think? Most Jews I know are atheist. But do you think it would be fair to describe Americans as people who get their values from Leviticus?

Or worse,
Genesis and Exodus.

As someone else pointed out years ago on another forum. There are more Zionists in Texas than Israel, if by Zionist you mean "believes that ancient scriptures like Exodus are the Word of God". People who believe that Exodus is a permanent land deed, directly from God, are huge in the USA. Especially amongst the Evangelical Christian community.
Tom

ETA ~It gets better when you consider everything that they believe, the conservative Evangelicals. I don't want those people moving into my neighborhood, Go Back To Jerusalem!
GTFO of Christian America!
Go get the Rapture underway. What the hell you doin' in Mississippi?
Tom

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Expressed as a ranking:
Hamas and some extreme members of Israel's right-wing < Palestinian Authority and some other members of Israel's right-wing < some strains of Israel's left-wing

To put it another way, my enemies are tyranny, murder, and slaughter.

This is why neither Hamas nor Netanyahu are my allies.

War crimes are war crimes are war crimes.

Please, reality check.

Right back at you.

Hammas are still holding the Israeli hostages.

Yes, Hamas are brutal tyrants. They are indeed holding hostages.

In addition to that, Israel is holding prisoners some of whom have been virtually tortured, not had due process, some died. And Palestinian territories continue to be occupied, trade restricted and an unrecognized caste-like status.

So obviously Israel hasn't put enough pressure on Hammas. Hammas are the one forcing Israel to go through Palestinian civilians to get to them.

Except that isn't true. Hamas has offered trades from the beginning of hostages for prisoners. Israel has at times accepted this and also included exchanges in possible negotiations from their side. Therefore, they are not being forced to do this. It's a choice.

The IDF are doing their best not to kill Palestinian cilvilians.

That's what Israel says. Of course, Israel is going to say that. Any country would say that about civilians it is killing.

You need a reality check.

But due to how Hammas operates, it's going to happen.

It's like Hammas is holding up a cute kitten and saying, "do what I tell you or I'll kill the kitten". And then when Israel doesn't do what they're told we then blame Israel for the kitten dying.

You need a reality check. Israel has the 4th most powerful military in the world. Resistances against superior forces use guerilla tactics. This has been going on for centuries if not millennia. Guerilla tactics include hiding and shooting from cover and unknown locations, blending into surroundings, and camouflage. In the case of guerillas living in a city being attacked by a superior force they hide and shoot from around corners. So yeah this is how it works. Destruction and deaths are rather unfortunate but it doesn't mean people are holding kittens. Except of course when they are. This is because war is also about politics and propaganda. And to the extent that each side can propagandize something, they will.

Hammas is playing the world press and popular opinion like a fiddle. Palestinian terror groups have been doing this since the 1970'ies. Don't be such a sucker.

Dude, how many times do I have to tell you? I don't like Hamas. Hamas is not my ally. They are tyrants.

In order to be able to protect Palestinian civilians long term I think it's necessary for some shock treatment and rip these fuckers out by the roots. Or the Palestinian people will continue getting hurt, for all eternity.

The Palestinian people will continue to get hurt for an eternity because of tribalism of which you are a full-fledged member.

 

[TomC]

Israel has the 4th most powerful military in the world.

That's an interesting assertion.

I'll give you USA, China, and Russia as the top 3. Questionable as Russia gets kicked in the ass by Ukraine but still...

Why do you think Israel is #4, in a world with Japan, Iran, and Britain?

I'm sure that the French are outraged! Outraged!

Tom

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Israel has the 4th most powerful military in the world.

That's an interesting assertion.

I'll give you USA, China, and Russia as the top 3. Questionable as Russia gets kicked in the ass by Ukraine but still...

Why do you think Israel is #4, in a world with Japan, Iran, and Britain?

I'm sure that the French are outraged! Outraged!

Tom

Israel ranks among 10 most powerful countries in annual list; 4th strongest military

US News & World Report finds Israeli military behind only US, China Russia; country is world's 6th most politically influential and 10th strongest power; but ranks only 37th 'best'

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[TomC]

Israel has the 4th most powerful military in the world.

That's an interesting assertion.

I'll give you USA, China, and Russia as the top 3. Questionable as Russia gets kicked in the ass by Ukraine but still...

Why do you think Israel is #4, in a world with Japan, Iran, and Britain?

I'm sure that the French are outraged! Outraged!

Tom

Israel ranks among 10 most powerful countries in annual list; 4th strongest military

US News & World Report finds Israeli military behind only US, China Russia; country is world's 6th most politically influential and 10th strongest power; but ranks only 37th 'best'

www.timesofisrael.com

Does that support your assertion?

Or was your assertion just another example of anti-jewish bigotry?
Tom

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Israel has the 4th most powerful military in the world.

That's an interesting assertion.

I'll give you USA, China, and Russia as the top 3. Questionable as Russia gets kicked in the ass by Ukraine but still...

Why do you think Israel is #4, in a world with Japan, Iran, and Britain?

I'm sure that the French are outraged! Outraged!

Tom

Israel ranks among 10 most powerful countries in annual list; 4th strongest military

US News & World Report finds Israeli military behind only US, China Russia; country is world's 6th most politically influential and 10th strongest power; but ranks only 37th 'best'

www.timesofisrael.com

Does that support your assertion?

You seem to be having serious problems with reading comprehension lately. Let's review:

Israel’s highest ranking was for its military, which was placed fourth, behind Russia, the US, and China.

You can disagree on specifics, call it the 7th most powerful if you want. It doesn't change that they are vastly superior to Hamas in terms of fighting power.

Or was your assertion just another example of anti-jewish bigotry?
Tom

Riiiiiiiiighhhhtttt, now you are calling the Times of Israel liars.....calling Jews liars.....but calling ME anti-semitic.

 

[TomC]

. It doesn't change that they are vastly superior to Hamas in terms of fighting power.

You know what else it doesn't change?

Israel is defending itself against multiple states determined to eradicate Jews.
Multiple states. And a huge culture determined to ethnically cleanse the region. Muslims.
Oh well. You Muslim apologists can keep explaining why everything bad is because of those nasty Jewish fucks. They just don't want peace and prosperity.

Oh well. Like Hamas and Iran and Egypt, you'll get your way. More violence

Tom

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

You Muslim apologists can keep explaining why everything bad is because of those nasty Jewish fucks.

Not only is that not what I wrote, it's frankly fucking weird.

 

[Swammerdami]

Israel is defending itself against multiple states determined to eradicate Jews.
Multiple states. And a huge culture determined to ethnically cleanse the region. Muslims.
Oh well. You Muslim apologists can keep explaining why everything bad is because of those nasty Jewish fucks. They just don't want peace and prosperity.

Oh my. There you go again. YOU condemn all "Muslims" while falsely claiming that your opponents in this thread are bigoted against "nasty Jewish fucks." (Did I miss a post? Who here has written anything like "nasty Jewish fucks"?)

This blatant bigotry is neither helpful, nor grounded in reality.

Who are the "states determined to eradicate Jews"? Iran?

Christianity, Judaism and Zoroastrianism are officially recognized [in Iran] and protected, and have reserved seats in the Iranian parliament. Iran is home to the second largest Jewish community in the Muslim world and the Middle East.
. . .
It is reported that Iran’s Jewish community is the largest in the Mideast outside Israel – and feels safe and respected. “We feel We have all the facilities we need for our rituals, and we can say our prayers very freely. We never have any problems. I can even tell you that, in many cases, we are more respected than Muslims,” said Nejat Golshirazi, 60, rabbi of the synagogue USA TODAY visited.

.

The official name of Iran -- Islamic Republic of Iran -- shows they have nothing like the U.S.'s First Amendment! BUT where does Tom get that Iran is "determined to eradicate Jews."

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

 

[TomC]

Who are the "states determined to eradicate Jews"? Iran?

Take a quick at recent events.

Nevermind.
You're determined to avoid the reality.

 

[Swammerdami]

Who are the "states determined to eradicate Jews"? Iran?

Take a quick at recent events.

Nevermind.
You're determined to avoid the reality.

YOU are the one determined to pretend that opposition to Israel's government is anti-Semitism^* THAT is disgraceful.


* -- Don't repeat your little sophomoric lecture on the ethnicity "Semitic." Even you understand that the term "anti-Semitism" is habitually applied to racists who hate Jews . . . in other words, people not unlike Muslim-haters like you but with opposite bigotry.

 

[TomC]

Muslim-haters like you

I don't have any more problems with Islam than Christianity.

Nevermind. You've got your mind made up