Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[laughing dog]

Nope.
It's because the Gazan health ministry is operated by Hamas.

That’s what I said.

No it isn't.
What you did was "like" LD's nonsense. Then post the sort of snarky mischaracterization (bordering on lies) that I have come to expect from many posters in this thread.
Including you.

I said nothing about

a place full of people who need exterminating,

nor

Only

Nope.
It's because the Gazan health ministry is operated by Hamas.

That’s what I said.

No it isn't.
What you did was "like" LD's nonsense. Then post the sort of snarky mischaracterization (bordering on lies) that I have come to expect from many posters in this thread.
Including you.

I said nothing about

a place full of people who need exterminating,

nor

Only the Israeli ministry of Bibi’s propaganda need be taken seriously.

That's all you.

Tom

Nope.
It's because the Gazan health ministry is operated by Hamas.

That’s what I said.

No it isn't.
What you did was "like" LD's nonsense. Then post the sort of snarky mischaracterization (bordering on lies) that I have come to expect from many posters in this thread.

What I observed was true. I understand why you might think an inconvenient truth is "nonsense" Instead of dealing with the facts, you respond with typical asinine comment that I don't expect from many posters in this thread.

 

[TomC]

What I observed was true. I understand why you might think an inconvenient truth is "nonsense" Instead of dealing with the facts, you respond with typical asinine comment that I don't expect from many posters in this thread.

No it was not true.
Hamas, or their handpicked underlings, are not "a real source". They are a terrorist group with little regard for truth or human life.
Tom

 

[Arctish]

What I observed was true. I understand why you might think an inconvenient truth is "nonsense" Instead of dealing with the facts, you respond with typical asinine comment that I don't expect from many posters in this thread.

No it was not true.
Hamas, or their handpicked underlings, are not "a real source". They are a terrorist group with little regard for truth or human life.
Tom

There is a big difference between a real source and a reliable source.

We've all seen posts from people who used real sources but not reliable ones. And we've seen posts from people who have no sources, they just make shit up.

Hamas is a real source. So is the UN, the IDF, Reuters, the Associated Press, the US State Department, Al Jazeera, and Fox News. Their reliability varies.

 

[TomC]

There is a big difference between a real source and a reliable source.

You described Hamas' underlings as a "real source".
Not me. I don't think that there is a particularly reliable source under the conditions.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

What I observed was true. I understand why you might think an inconvenient truth is "nonsense" Instead of dealing with the facts, you respond with typical asinine comment that I don't expect from many posters in this thread.

No it was not true.
Hamas, or their handpicked underlings, are not "a real source". They are a terrorist group with little regard for truth or human life.
Tom

The Gazan ministry of health exists. It is real in every sense of the word. The fact you don't trust them does not make them less real. Nor does it make them any more or less truthful, because the accuracy of their estimates is independent of anyone's opinion of their honesty or ability.

No one is demanding that you accept their estimates as accurate. But when you make blatantly false claims, your claims appear even flimsier to rational thinkers than Hamas's do to you.

 

[Derec]

Amputations are done on live people. So, if there are more amputations performed on X compared to Y, it is possible there more Ys did not survive to get an amputation.

Many things are possible; the question would be, is your hypothesis reasonable?

In any case, the question is academic. We know your hypothesis is wrong based on data. Disproportionate number of adult men have undergone amputations, and a disproportionate number of adult men are among the fatalities as well, even according to Hamas MoH numbers, as I have shown in post #7401 and elsewhere.

My point was and is that information about rates of amputation don't really show much about relative mortality rates.

There is no reason to think that they would be fundamentally different. And lo and behold, it turns out they aren't.

 

[Derec]

The Gazan ministry of health exists. It is real in every sense of the word.

German Ministry of Propaganda also existed and was real in every sense of the word. Doesn't make either of them reliable.

No one is demanding that you accept their estimates as accurate. But when you make blatantly false claims, your claims appear even flimsier to rational thinkers than Hamas's do to you.

It is Elixir who makes claims about 70% of the dead being "women and childrenminors" that are not backed up by anything, not even Hamas numbers. Again, see my posts where I analyzed Hamas MoH numbers in detail.

 

[laughing dog]

Amputations are done on live people. So, if there are more amputations performed on X compared to Y, it is possible there more Ys did not survive to get an amputation.

Many things are possible; the question would be, is your hypothesis reasonable.

In any case, the question is academic. We know your hypothesis is wrong based on data. Disproportionate number of adult men have undergone amputations, and a disproportionate number of adult men are among the fatalities as well, even according to Hamas MoH numbers, as I have shown in post #7401 and elsewhere.

Pointing out that amputation numbers may not be good indicators of death rates is not wrong. Nothing you have shown disputes that. All you have shown is that in this instance, they may be good indicators. I realize that is a subtle point, but it is graspable if one actually reflects on issue.

My point was and is that information about rates of amputation don't really show much about relative mortality rates.

There is no reason to think that they would be fundamentally different. And lo and behold, it turns out they aren't.

Actually, there is a reason they may be different - I explained it. My point, that you seem to be unable to grasp, is that the amputation numbers do not necessarily imply what LP said they did.

The Gazan ministry of health exists. It is real in every sense of the word.

German Ministry of Propaganda also existed and was real in every sense of the word. Doesn't make either of them reliable.

I didn't say it did. But "real" and "reliable" are not synonymous.

No one is demanding that you accept their estimates as accurate. But when you make blatantly false claims, your claims appear even flimsier to rational thinkers than Hamas's do to you.

It is Elixir who makes claims about 70% of the dead being "women and childrenminors" that are not backed up by anything, not even Hamas numbers. Again, see my posts where I analyzed Hamas MoH numbers in detail.

Thank you interjecting one of your "whataboutisms". We do not have accurate accounting for deaths in Gaza. We probably never will.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

First article:

Oscar-winning Palestinian director attacked by Israeli settlers, detained by army​

JERUSALEM — Israeli settlers beat up one of the Palestinian co-directors of the Oscar-winning documentary film No Other Land on Monday in the occupied West Bank before he was detained by the Israeli military, according to two of his fellow directors and other witnesses.

Second article:

2 other Palestinians arrested alongside Oscar-winning activist for alleged rock-throwing

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

The second account is interesting because it says that the IDF arrived after the confrontation was well under way, but the IDF claims the cause of the conflict was the Palestinians.

 

[Arctish]

Thousands of Palestinians demonstrate against Hamas, demand an end to the war.

Thousands of Israelis demonstrate against Netanyahu, demand an end to the war.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Here's a major new development. Gazans have started protesting against Hamas. Still small protests. But perhaps finally the Palestinian support for Hamas is waning. Let's hope

Hundreds join largest anti-Hamas protest since Gaza war began

Masked Hamas militants dispersed protesters who gathered in northern Gaza to rally against the group.

www.bbc.com

 

[Harry Bosch]

Here's a major new development. Gazans have started protesting against Hamas. Still small protests. But perhaps finally the Palestinian support for Hamas is waning. Let's hope

Hundreds join largest anti-Hamas protest since Gaza war began

Masked Hamas militants dispersed protesters who gathered in northern Gaza to rally against the group.

www.bbc.com

Let’s hope this continues. I also assume and hope that the corrupt Netanyahu government has stopped supporting Hamas! (Tonge in cheek there). The war is going to go on until the hostages are released and Hamas is de-armed and dis-banded.

 

[laughing dog]

Here's a major new development. Gazans have started protesting against Hamas. Still small protests. But perhaps finally the Palestinian support for Hamas is waning. Let's hope

Hundreds join largest anti-Hamas protest since Gaza war began

Masked Hamas militants dispersed protesters who gathered in northern Gaza to rally against the group.

www.bbc.com

Let’s hope this continues. I also assume and hope that the corrupt Netanyahu government has stopped supporting Hamas! (Tonge in cheek there). The war is going to go on until the hostages are released and Hamas is de-armed and dis-banded.

So, it is never going to end.

 

[TomC]

Here's a major new development. Gazans have started protesting against Hamas. Still small protests. But perhaps finally the Palestinian support for Hamas is waning. Let's hope

Hundreds join largest anti-Hamas protest since Gaza war began

Masked Hamas militants dispersed protesters who gathered in northern Gaza to rally against the group.

www.bbc.com

Let’s hope this continues. I also assume and hope that the corrupt Netanyahu government has stopped supporting Hamas! (Tonge in cheek there). The war is going to go on until the hostages are released and Hamas is de-armed and dis-banded.

So, it is never going to end.

Why are you so pessimistic about the possibility of Palestinians choosing peace and prosperity over chaos and poverty?
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Here's a major new development. Gazans have started protesting against Hamas. Still small protests. But perhaps finally the Palestinian support for Hamas is waning. Let's hope

Hundreds join largest anti-Hamas protest since Gaza war began

Masked Hamas militants dispersed protesters who gathered in northern Gaza to rally against the group.

www.bbc.com

Let’s hope this continues. I also assume and hope that the corrupt Netanyahu government has stopped supporting Hamas! (Tonge in cheek there). The war is going to go on until the hostages are released and Hamas is de-armed and dis-banded.

So, it is never going to end.

Why are you so pessimistic about the possibility of Palestinians choosing peace and prosperity over chaos and poverty?
Tom

Because they are poor, hungry, and scared that if Israel doesn't kill them, Hamas or any of the other mobs will... and no one gives a fuck about them.

Your armchair refrain of peace and prosperity comes at the knife's edge and likely to no avail.

 

[laughing dog]

Here's a major new development. Gazans have started protesting against Hamas. Still small protests. But perhaps finally the Palestinian support for Hamas is waning. Let's hope

Hundreds join largest anti-Hamas protest since Gaza war began

Masked Hamas militants dispersed protesters who gathered in northern Gaza to rally against the group.

www.bbc.com

Let’s hope this continues. I also assume and hope that the corrupt Netanyahu government has stopped supporting Hamas! (Tonge in cheek there). The war is going to go on until the hostages are released and Hamas is de-armed and dis-banded.

So, it is never going to end.

Why are you so pessimistic about the possibility of Palestinians choosing peace and prosperity over chaos and poverty?
Tom

That has nothing whatsoever to do with de-arming and disbanding Hamas or other terrorists.

 

[TomC]

That has nothing whatsoever to do with de-arming and disbanding Hamas or other terrorists.

That's ridiculous.
De-arming and disbanding violent Muslim terrorists is the key to bringing peace and prosperity to the Palestinians.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

That has nothing whatsoever to do with de-arming and disbanding Hamas or other terrorists.

That's ridiculous.
De-arming and disbanding violent Muslim terrorists is the key to bringing peace and prosperity to the Palestinians.
Tom

Please give an explanation why it is rational, let alone reasonable, that continuing to bomb and attack Gaza will cause a disarming and a disbanding of Hamas.

And then explain how it will another vital key to peace - the disarming and dissolution of radical Israeli Zionists.

 

[Arctish]

Here's a major new development. Gazans have started protesting against Hamas. Still small protests. But perhaps finally the Palestinian support for Hamas is waning. Let's hope

Hundreds join largest anti-Hamas protest since Gaza war began

Masked Hamas militants dispersed protesters who gathered in northern Gaza to rally against the group.

www.bbc.com

Let’s hope this continues. I also assume and hope that the corrupt Netanyahu government has stopped supporting Hamas! (Tonge in cheek there). The war is going to go on until the hostages are released and Hamas is de-armed and dis-banded.

So, it is never going to end.

Why are you so pessimistic about the possibility of Palestinians choosing peace and prosperity over chaos and poverty?
Tom

The Palestinians have chosen peace and prosperity over chaos and poverty on multiple occasions, at first with their own counter-proposals over the future of Palestine when the British were withdrawing, then most obviously when the Oslo Accords were signed, and again when the PA formally and officially sought a diplomatic solution to the conflict via the UN and the international community. Their choosing the path that leads to peace isn't enough to secure a peaceful outcome, though. The Israelis have to choose to walk that path as well. Right now, the Israelis are on the path of territorial expansion through displacing the non-Jews and enshrining religious bigotry in their Basic Laws. We all know where that path leads.

Maybe you could read up on those greenhouses in Gaza, how they came to be built, how they came to be under Palestinian control, the hopes people had when they invested in growing crops for export, the jobs and economic growth they provided, and how/why it all came to naught. And then maybe you might wonder why the story that gets circulated is anti-Psemitic horseshit about Palestinians destroying their chances at prosperity because they're just so gosh darned angry all the time.

 

[Tigers!]

That has nothing whatsoever to do with de-arming and disbanding Hamas or other terrorists.

That's ridiculous.
De-arming and disbanding violent Muslim terrorists is the key to bringing peace and prosperity to the Palestinians.
Tom

Please give an explanation why it is rational, let alone reasonable, that continuing to bomb and attack Gaza will cause a disarming and a disbanding of Hamas.

Please give an explanation why it is rational, let alone reasonable, that continuing to hold hostages will cause Israel to stop bombing.

And then explain how it will another vital key to peace - the disarming and dissolution of radical Israeli Zionists.

And then explain how it will another vital key to peace - the disarming and dissolution of radical Hamas