Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[DrZoidberg]

Israel is the only country I'm aware of in modern history that responds to acts of terrorism by committing acts of genocide themselves.

The Palestinians are the only people I am aware of in modern history that regularly attacks a neighbor and then uses their own people for human shields.
Tom

Only if you think the Jewish Settlements are legal, which they aren't FYI.

Not relevant.

It is the single biggest recruitment tool for groups like Hamas and Hezbollah. It couldn't be any more relevant.

I don't think that's true. With an ideology like Islamism popular in the Middle-East today you don't need any other recruitment tool.

It doesn't matter a damn what Israel does or doesn't, unless all Israeli Jews, convert to Islam en masse.

The good news is that Islamism seems to be, if not dying, then at least falling out of peak fashion.

So there's hope.

 

[Gospel]

View attachment 54569

Surprisingly antisemitic coming from you.

Such gross Antisemitism coming from the far left has been present for a long time now. It's disgusting.

It is not about antisemitism. It has to do with the actions of the the state of Israel which happens to be Jewish.

As to Israel apologists. Before and during WWII there were those who supported what the Nazis did. There were the Nazi synthesizers in the British aristocracy.

Looked the other way over extermination of not just Jews, anyone deemed unworthy or inferior.

Palestinians have been systemically dehumanized. American media rarely covered what was being done to Palestinians.

Result, years of military destruction and death with no end in sight.

Now Trump is threatening to resume attacks on Iran.

And again, if you want to understand why Iran hates the USA you only have to look at what the dictator Shah Of Iran supported by the USA did.

Oh, it's absolutely about anti-semitism.

Palestinians attacked, raped, and mutilated Israeli civilians without provocation. It was the single deadliest day in Israel's history. But hey, cutting off women's breasts, putting nails in their vaginas, raping them, and taking hundreds of hostages is a-okay as long as theocratic authoritarians did it because the U.S. government supported the Shah in the 1970s.

"Free Palestine!" clownery is as hateful as it gets. As if they've been free under the PLO and now Hamas. And free from what? Dignity and democracy???

Also, some 30,000 Iranians were massacred by their own government just months ago, but Israel and the U.S. are to blame for that because the Iranian people hate America???

I don't know why I bother to address such irreconcilable, hypocritical, and immoral points of view. They're every bit as foul and disgusting as Trump is.

I feel like you're looking at this through a pretty extreme lens. A lot of people fiercely oppose Hamas, felt sickened by October 7, and stand with Iranian protestors, yet they still believe Palestinians have a right to their own future and that Israel's government isn't above criticism. You seem to be reducing this to a binary choice between supporting human rights and condemning terrorism, when it's entirely possible to do both.

 

[DrZoidberg]

View attachment 54569

Surprisingly antisemitic coming from you.

Such gross Antisemitism coming from the far left has been present for a long time now. It's disgusting.

It is not about antisemitism. It has to do with the actions of the the state of Israel which happens to be Jewish.

As to Israel apologists. Before and during WWII there were those who supported what the Nazis did. There were the Nazi synthesizers in the British aristocracy.

Looked the other way over extermination of not just Jews, anyone deemed unworthy or inferior.

Palestinians have been systemically dehumanized. American media rarely covered what was being done to Palestinians.

Result, years of military destruction and death with no end in sight.

Now Trump is threatening to resume attacks on Iran.

And again, if you want to understand why Iran hates the USA you only have to look at what the dictator Shah Of Iran supported by the USA did.

Oh, it's absolutely about anti-semitism.

Palestinians attacked, raped, and mutilated Israeli civilians without provocation. It was the single deadliest day in Israel's history. But hey, cutting off women's breasts, putting nails in their vaginas, raping them, and taking hundreds of hostages is a-okay as long as theocratic authoritarians did it because the U.S. government supported the Shah in the 1970s.

"Free Palestine!" clownery is as hateful as it gets. As if they've been free under the PLO and now Hamas. And free from what? Dignity and democracy???

Also, some 30,000 Iranians were massacred by their own government just months ago, but Israel and the U.S. are to blame for that because the Iranian people hate America???

I don't know why I bother to address such irreconcilable, hypocritical, and immoral points of view. They're every bit as foul and disgusting as Trump is.

I feel like you're looking at this through a pretty extreme lens. A lot of people fiercely oppose Hamas, felt sickened by October 7, and stand with Iranian protestors, yet they still believe Palestinians have a right to their own future and that Israel's government isn't above criticism. You seem to be reducing this to a binary choice between supporting human rights and condemning terrorism, when it's entirely possible to do both.

I think the problem is that the Palestinians don't seem to care what woke western leftist think, ie the "lot of people who fiercly oppose hamas"

 

[Gospel]

View attachment 54569

Surprisingly antisemitic coming from you.

Such gross Antisemitism coming from the far left has been present for a long time now. It's disgusting.

It is not about antisemitism. It has to do with the actions of the the state of Israel which happens to be Jewish.

As to Israel apologists. Before and during WWII there were those who supported what the Nazis did. There were the Nazi synthesizers in the British aristocracy.

Looked the other way over extermination of not just Jews, anyone deemed unworthy or inferior.

Palestinians have been systemically dehumanized. American media rarely covered what was being done to Palestinians.

Result, years of military destruction and death with no end in sight.

Now Trump is threatening to resume attacks on Iran.

And again, if you want to understand why Iran hates the USA you only have to look at what the dictator Shah Of Iran supported by the USA did.

Oh, it's absolutely about anti-semitism.

Palestinians attacked, raped, and mutilated Israeli civilians without provocation. It was the single deadliest day in Israel's history. But hey, cutting off women's breasts, putting nails in their vaginas, raping them, and taking hundreds of hostages is a-okay as long as theocratic authoritarians did it because the U.S. government supported the Shah in the 1970s.

"Free Palestine!" clownery is as hateful as it gets. As if they've been free under the PLO and now Hamas. And free from what? Dignity and democracy???

Also, some 30,000 Iranians were massacred by their own government just months ago, but Israel and the U.S. are to blame for that because the Iranian people hate America???

I don't know why I bother to address such irreconcilable, hypocritical, and immoral points of view. They're every bit as foul and disgusting as Trump is.

I feel like you're looking at this through a pretty extreme lens. A lot of people fiercely oppose Hamas, felt sickened by October 7, and stand with Iranian protestors, yet they still believe Palestinians have a right to their own future and that Israel's government isn't above criticism. You seem to be reducing this to a binary choice between supporting human rights and condemning terrorism, when it's entirely possible to do both.

I think the problem is that the Palestinians don't seem to care what woke western leftist think, ie the "lot of people who fiercly oppose hamas"

I'm not sure that follows. Palestinians not caring what Western progressives think doesn't magically turn everyone who supports Palestinian rights into a Hamas supporter.

 

[Harry Bosch]

View attachment 54569

Surprisingly antisemitic coming from you.

Such gross Antisemitism coming from the far left has been present for a long time now. It's disgusting.

It is not about antisemitism. It has to do with the actions of the the state of Israel which happens to be Jewish.

As to Israel apologists. Before and during WWII there were those who supported what the Nazis did. There were the Nazi synthesizers in the British aristocracy.

Looked the other way over extermination of not just Jews, anyone deemed unworthy or inferior.

Palestinians have been systemically dehumanized. American media rarely covered what was being done to Palestinians.

Result, years of military destruction and death with no end in sight.

Now Trump is threatening to resume attacks on Iran.

And again, if you want to understand why Iran hates the USA you only have to look at what the dictator Shah Of Iran supported by the USA did.

Oh, it's absolutely about anti-semitism.

Palestinians attacked, raped, and mutilated Israeli civilians without provocation. It was the single deadliest day in Israel's history. But hey, cutting off women's breasts, putting nails in their vaginas, raping them, and taking hundreds of hostages is a-okay as long as theocratic authoritarians did it because the U.S. government supported the Shah in the 1970s.

"Free Palestine!" clownery is as hateful as it gets. As if they've been free under the PLO and now Hamas. And free from what? Dignity and democracy???

Also, some 30,000 Iranians were massacred by their own government just months ago, but Israel and the U.S. are to blame for that because the Iranian people hate America???

I don't know why I bother to address such irreconcilable, hypocritical, and immoral points of view. They're every bit as foul and disgusting as Trump is.

I feel like you're looking at this through a pretty extreme lens. A lot of people fiercely oppose Hamas, felt sickened by October 7, and stand with Iranian protestors, yet they still believe Palestinians have a right to their own future and that Israel's government isn't above criticism. You seem to be reducing this to a binary choice between supporting human rights and condemning terrorism, when it's entirely possible to do both.

I think that you're trying to find the middle road. Which I agree. The problem is that the people running Israel; the people running Gaza; the people running Iran are all right wingers who do not want peace. I do think that Israel's government will moderate in their next election. But I see no chance of that in Iran or Gaza. So war will continue. Will we ever have a time similar to October 23, 1998 when two sides (Arafat and a moderate Israeli government) came so close to a peace agreement? Probably not.

 

[Gospel]

I don't think the answer is pretending the people on the other side stop being people and become nothing more than a flag, a nationality, a religion, or a political position.

I'm fully aware of the atrocities, the suffering, and the harsh realities involved. My concern is that becoming just as hardened and dehumanizing as the people driving the conflict isn't likely to improve anything. If anything, that's part of how conflicts like this manage to sustain themselves for generations.

For example, DrZoidberg's response to one of my posts about "woke leftists" felt less like a reply and more like an argument in search of a target. The only problem is that I'm not a leftist, I don't subscribe to the whole woke framework, and I find a lot of the culture-war rhetoric from both extremes exhausting.

But despite that, I don't immediately write him off as some self-appointed geopolitical expert whose credentials consist of having a Jewish friend and a Wi-Fi connection. If I'm asking others not to reduce people to caricatures, it would be a bit hypocritical to start doing it myself.

 

[laughing dog]

I think the problem is that the Palestinians don't seem to care what woke western leftist think, ie the "lot of people who fiercly oppose hamas"

Wow. Do you ever clean that broadbrush?

But you do have a point, I suppose the Palestinian people have a lot more on their minds like trying to survive in Gaza and the West Bank than worrying about other people.

 

[Colonel Sanders]

View attachment 54569

Surprisingly antisemitic coming from you.

Such gross Antisemitism coming from the far left has been present for a long time now. It's disgusting.

It is not about antisemitism. It has to do with the actions of the the state of Israel which happens to be Jewish.

As to Israel apologists. Before and during WWII there were those who supported what the Nazis did. There were the Nazi synthesizers in the British aristocracy.

Looked the other way over extermination of not just Jews, anyone deemed unworthy or inferior.

Palestinians have been systemically dehumanized. American media rarely covered what was being done to Palestinians.

Result, years of military destruction and death with no end in sight.

Now Trump is threatening to resume attacks on Iran.

And again, if you want to understand why Iran hates the USA you only have to look at what the dictator Shah Of Iran supported by the USA did.

Oh, it's absolutely about anti-semitism.

Palestinians attacked, raped, and mutilated Israeli civilians without provocation. It was the single deadliest day in Israel's history. But hey, cutting off women's breasts, putting nails in their vaginas, raping them, and taking hundreds of hostages is a-okay as long as theocratic authoritarians did it because the U.S. government supported the Shah in the 1970s.

"Free Palestine!" clownery is as hateful as it gets. As if they've been free under the PLO and now Hamas. And free from what? Dignity and democracy???

Also, some 30,000 Iranians were massacred by their own government just months ago, but Israel and the U.S. are to blame for that because the Iranian people hate America???

I don't know why I bother to address such irreconcilable, hypocritical, and immoral points of view. They're every bit as foul and disgusting as Trump is.

I feel like you're looking at this through a pretty extreme lens. A lot of people fiercely oppose Hamas, felt sickened by October 7, and stand with Iranian protestors, yet they still believe Palestinians have a right to their own future and that Israel's government isn't above criticism. You seem to be reducing this to a binary choice between supporting human rights and condemning terrorism, when it's entirely possible to do both.

Unlike most circumstances, I don't see this one as having many shades of grey. To me it's not a matter of Israel's government being above criticism. Rather, it's the right of a nation to exercise its right to defend itself against a relentless enemy that exercises the most hateful and violent policies over its own people and then extends that violence and hate towards a liberal democracy.

October 7 was unprovoked and shocking in its scope and execution. The response of the American left was and still is shocking. Everything that the left and atheists in particular are supposed to stand for has been ground down to hypocritical dust.

Women's rights, LGBTQ rights, free speech rights, freedom of and from religion, etc. These are values that American liberals are supposed to uncompromisingly support. However, when it comes to this situation, all of that falls by the wayside via the acceptance of Hamas's violence and Israel's response to such.

It is indeed reasonable to hold governments responsible, so why is Hamas held to no standard while Israel is held to impossible standards? I cannot help but see hypocrisy and antisemitism as core elements of this support.

 

[laughing dog]

It is indeed reasonable to hold governments responsible, so why is Hamas held to no standard while Israel is held to impossible standards? I cannot help but see hypocrisy and antisemitism as core elements of this support.

I keep seeing the meme of “Hamas is not held accountable” but it is a fiction. It is designated as a terrorist organization by the US, the EU, Canada, and many other nations. There are sanctions, and continual assassinations. The US subsidizes Israel’s military.

What more is the world supposed to do? Stay mute regardless whatever the gov’t of Israel chooses to do?

 

[Gospel]

Unlike most circumstances, I don't see this one as having many shades of grey. To me it's not a matter of Israel's government being above criticism. Rather, it's the right of a nation to exercise its right to defend itself against a relentless enemy that exercises the most hateful and violent policies over its own people and then extends that violence and hate towards a liberal democracy.

October 7 was unprovoked and shocking in its scope and execution. The response of the American left was and still is shocking. Everything that the left and atheists in particular are supposed to stand for has been ground down to hypocritical dust.

Women's rights, LGBTQ rights, free speech rights, freedom of and from religion, etc. These are values that American liberals are supposed to uncompromisingly support. However, when it comes to this situation, all of that falls by the wayside via the acceptance of Hamas's violence and Israel's response to such.

It is indeed reasonable to hold governments responsible, so why is Hamas held to no standard while Israel is held to impossible standards? I cannot help but see hypocrisy and antisemitism as core elements of this support.

I actually agree with a lot of what you're saying. There are absolutely people who have tied themselves into knots over October 7, apply obvious double standards, or seem willing to excuse things they would condemn in virtually any other context. None of them that I've encountered in real life are members of this forum to my knowledge. Where I take issue is when said opinions get attributed to just about anyone. In my case, it's similar to what DrZoidberg does, he's decided that I'm a willfully ignorant Hamas supporter on the left and assigned a whole collection of beliefs and behaviors without ever establishing that I actually hold those views.

If someone is defending Hamas, minimizing October 7, or applying a double standard, then call that person out. Quote them. Challenge what they actually said. What I've mostly seen, though, are broad statements without any actual examples attached to them. Nobody has pointed me to the specific people making these arguments, so I haven't exactly been shown where to hold my pitchfork.

I'd much rather spend my time discussing the actual issue than arguing with caricatures of people who may or may not exist. "The left" isn't a registered user on this forum. I can't ask "the left" what it believes any more than I can ask "the right." If we're going to discuss someone's views, I'd rather discuss the actual people expressing them than a political abstraction.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

View attachment 54569

Surprisingly antisemitic coming from you.

Such gross Antisemitism coming from the far left has been present for a long time now. It's disgusting.

It is not about antisemitism. It has to do with the actions of the the state of Israel which happens to be Jewish.

As to Israel apologists. Before and during WWII there were those who supported what the Nazis did. There were the Nazi synthesizers in the British aristocracy.

Looked the other way over extermination of not just Jews, anyone deemed unworthy or inferior.

Palestinians have been systemically dehumanized. American media rarely covered what was being done to Palestinians.

Result, years of military destruction and death with no end in sight.

Now Trump is threatening to resume attacks on Iran.

And again, if you want to understand why Iran hates the USA you only have to look at what the dictator Shah Of Iran supported by the USA did.

Oh, it's absolutely about anti-semitism.

Palestinians attacked, raped, and mutilated Israeli civilians without provocation. It was the single deadliest day in Israel's history. But hey, cutting off women's breasts, putting nails in their vaginas, raping them, and taking hundreds of hostages is a-okay as long as theocratic authoritarians did it because the U.S. government supported the Shah in the 1970s.

"Free Palestine!" clownery is as hateful as it gets. As if they've been free under the PLO and now Hamas. And free from what? Dignity and democracy???

Also, some 30,000 Iranians were massacred by their own government just months ago, but Israel and the U.S. are to blame for that because the Iranian people hate America???

I don't know why I bother to address such irreconcilable, hypocritical, and immoral points of view. They're every bit as foul and disgusting as Trump is.

I feel like you're looking at this through a pretty extreme lens. A lot of people fiercely oppose Hamas, felt sickened by October 7, and stand with Iranian protestors, yet they still believe Palestinians have a right to their own future and that Israel's government isn't above criticism. You seem to be reducing this to a binary choice between supporting human rights and condemning terrorism, when it's entirely possible to do both.

Unlike most circumstances, I don't see this one as having many shades of grey. To me it's not a matter of Israel's government being above criticism. Rather, it's the right of a nation to exercise its right to defend itself against a relentless enemy that exercises the most hateful and violent policies over its own people and then extends that violence and hate towards a liberal democracy.

October 7 was unprovoked and shocking in its scope and execution. The response of the American left was and still is shocking. Everything that the left and atheists in particular are supposed to stand for has been ground down to hypocritical dust.

While I can appreciate truth in that there were some on the left that support Palestine and feel they have a right to self-defense, that was not the broad conclusion of The Left. My niece made some uncomfortable statements online and I did my best to correct her point of view, which is tainted by the fact that she isn't old enough to remember the Arab Wars, the suicide bombings. All she knows is what has happened recently, and that is a Palestine that has effectively gone feral politically in part due to Israeli and Iranian decisions. So I did my best to provide that broader understanding.

But her position clearly wasn't mine and I am quite to the left as it is.

It is indeed reasonable to hold governments responsible, so why is Hamas held to no standard while Israel is held to impossible standards? I cannot help but see hypocrisy and antisemitism as core elements of this support.

Hamas wasn't allowed to be a government, by anyone. I was suppose the only person that thought the UN, Israel, US, etc... messed up royally with Hamas winning the election. That was an opportunity and forcing Hamas to become inclusive with politics. Instead, everyone said 'feck off' and that was that.

The most important thing would be categorize who supports the rights of the Palestinians "to live" v. who supports the Palestinians right to "defend themselves" v. who support the actions of Hamas. This thing is an onion, and trying to lump this all into one group is ignorant. And then there is the history and understanding the history. The older someone is, the more they understand a broader story arc here. People who are 20... weren't even alive when the suicide bombings were happening in Israel. For the life of me, I don't know why you jump to anti-Semitism when ignorance of history is a more clear thing happening now. You label them all as anti-Semites, instead of trying to help them understand what in the heck has been going on.

 

[Tigers!]

While I can appreciate truth in that there were some on the left that support Palestine and feel they have a right to self-defense, that was not the broad conclusion of The Left. My niece made some uncomfortable statements online and I did my best to correct her point of view, which is tainted by the fact that she isn't old enough to remember the Arab Wars, the suicide bombings. All she knows is what has happened recently, and that is a Palestine that has effectively gone feral politically in part due to Israeli and Iranian decisions. So I did my best to provide that broader understanding.

Good job

 

[Tigers!]

The most important thing would be categorize who supports the rights of the Palestinians "to live" v. who supports the Palestinians right to "defend themselves" v. who support the actions of Hamas.

Hamas claims that they are doing both of those things.

This thing is an onion, and trying to lump this all into one group is ignorant.

That is a good analogy. Mind if I use it?

 

[Tigers!]

It is indeed reasonable to hold governments responsible, so why is Hamas held to no standard while Israel is held to impossible standards? I cannot help but see hypocrisy and antisemitism as core elements of this support.

I keep seeing the meme of “Hamas is not held accountable” but it is a fiction. It is designated as a terrorist organization by the US, the EU, Canada, and many other nations. There are sanctions, and continual assassinations. The US subsidizes Israel’s military.

What more is the world supposed to do? Stay mute regardless whatever the gov’t of Israel chooses to do?

Your last line is the problem. Its all about Israel isn't it?
You do not have to stay mute but you have spent 1000's of words castigating Israel and the Israeli response.
How about a few hundred words saying this is what needs to be done to stop Hamas doing another Oct 7th? Or what needs to be done to stop Hezbollah shelling northern Israel?
Designating Hamas as terrorist organisation did not prevent Oct 7th.

 

[laughing dog]

It is indeed reasonable to hold governments responsible, so why is Hamas held to no standard while Israel is held to impossible standards? I cannot help but see hypocrisy and antisemitism as core elements of this support.

I keep seeing the meme of “Hamas is not held accountable” but it is a fiction. It is designated as a terrorist organization by the US, the EU, Canada, and many other nations. There are sanctions, and continual assassinations. The US subsidizes Israel’s military.

What more is the world supposed to do? Stay mute regardless whatever the gov’t of Israel chooses to do?

Your last line is the problem. Its all about Israel isn't it?
You do not have to stay mute but you have spent 1000's of words castigating Israel and the Israeli response.
How about a few hundred words saying this is what needs to be done to stop Hamas doing another Oct 7th? Or what needs to be done to stop Hezbollah shelling northern Israel?
Designating Hamas as terrorist organisation did not prevent Oct 7th.

You didn’t answer either of my questions. They weren’t rhetorical. I wonder why.

 

[ZiprHead]

How about a few hundred words saying this is what needs to be done to stop Hamas doing another Oct 7th?

Do you really think you could stop another October 7th? It was done with small arms and motorcycles. It could easily be repeated.

 

[Patooka]

To me it's not a matter of Israel's government being above criticism.

That's the point. Netanyahu was fucking graetful that a scumbag terrroist organisation like Hamas did what they did on oct7. The fucker was about to go to prison. He then unified a country against an external enemy (not an original story) and then when that ran out changed tactics and moved to Iran (again not an original story). Trump did the same but just copy and paste with the words Epstein.

And if anyone calls that out, they are automatically an anti-semite. My response is go and fuck off to the moon and back. I'm against genocide and imperialism. That's why my arguments are consistent when hospitals and schools are bombed.

 

[Tigers!]

How about a few hundred words saying this is what needs to be done to stop Hamas doing another Oct 7th?

Do you really think you could stop another October 7th? It was done with small arms and motorcycles. It could easily be repeated.

The problem is that Israel is held to a standard that Hamas/Hezbollah et. al are not.
When Hamas/Hezbollah do what they do there is sighing, clutching of pearls, attack of vapours etc. but nothing is done.
When Israel responds we get calls of possible war crimes, disproportionate response, 'haul them to the Hague', sanctions etc. Why the difference?
Israel does need to be more careful and clinical. The amount of ordnance they have flung into Gaza is just ridiculous (and deadly).

 

[Tigers!]

It is indeed reasonable to hold governments responsible, so why is Hamas held to no standard while Israel is held to impossible standards? I cannot help but see hypocrisy and antisemitism as core elements of this support.

I keep seeing the meme of “Hamas is not held accountable” but it is a fiction. It is designated as a terrorist organization by the US, the EU, Canada, and many other nations. There are sanctions, and continual assassinations. The US subsidizes Israel’s military.

What more is the world supposed to do? Stay mute regardless whatever the gov’t of Israel chooses to do?

Your last line is the problem. Its all about Israel isn't it?
You do not have to stay mute but you have spent 1000's of words castigating Israel and the Israeli response.
How about a few hundred words saying this is what needs to be done to stop Hamas doing another Oct 7th? Or what needs to be done to stop Hezbollah shelling northern Israel?
Designating Hamas as terrorist organisation did not prevent Oct 7th.

You didn’t answer either of my questions. They weren’t rhetorical. I wonder why.

I did answer "Stay mute .....".
For a change how about actually reading my words rather than responding to what you think I wrote or wanted me to write.
Tell us - how can we (i.e. not Israel) stop Hamas doing what Hamas does best (killing Jews)?

 

[laughing dog]

It is indeed reasonable to hold governments responsible, so why is Hamas held to no standard while Israel is held to impossible standards? I cannot help but see hypocrisy and antisemitism as core elements of this support.

I keep seeing the meme of “Hamas is not held accountable” but it is a fiction. It is designated as a terrorist organization by the US, the EU, Canada, and many other nations. There are sanctions, and continual assassinations. The US subsidizes Israel’s military.

What more is the world supposed to do? Stay mute regardless whatever the gov’t of Israel chooses to do?

Your last line is the problem. Its all about Israel isn't it?
You do not have to stay mute but you have spent 1000's of words castigating Israel and the Israeli response.
How about a few hundred words saying this is what needs to be done to stop Hamas doing another Oct 7th? Or what needs to be done to stop Hezbollah shelling northern Israel?
Designating Hamas as terrorist organisation did not prevent Oct 7th.

You didn’t answer either of my questions. They weren’t rhetorical. I wonder why.

I did answer "Stay mute .....".

Read you own words. You wrote “You don’t have to stay mute”. Which doesn’t answer the question about the world, because the workd doesn’t stay mute.

For a change how about actually reading my words rather than responding to what you think I wrote or wanted me to write.

Take your own advice.

Tell us - how can we (i.e. not Israel) stop Hamas doing what Hamas does best (killing Jews)?

You still haven’t answered my actual question.