Gender-critical views in England

[ZiprHead]

Honestly, at this stage of my life, you'd think I'd have become inured to the way that men women so often just dismiss women's trans people's concerns and women's trans people's issues. It doesn't affect them, so who gives a fuck. But I just. keep. being. surprised by the sheer callousness and disregard shown toward women trans people sometimes.

Works this way too.

 

[Politesse]

Honestly, at this stage of my life, you'd think I'd have become inured to the way that men so often just dismiss women's concerns and women's issues. It doesn't affect them, so who gives a fuck. But I just. keep. being. surprised by the sheer callousness and disregard shown toward women sometimes.

I have no problem with "women". I do have a problem with people who use falsified media crap to excuse their assaults on other people's fundamental rights.

 

[Ahab]

Honestly, at this stage of my life, you'd think I'd have become inured to the way that men women so often just dismiss women's trans people's concerns and women's trans people's issues. It doesn't affect them, so who gives a fuck. But I just. keep. being. surprised by the sheer callousness and disregard shown toward women trans people sometimes.

Works this way too.

Not really. Most gender critics (male and female) support legal protections for trans people. They just don't buy into the crazy idea that gender identity trumps biological reality. Nor do they think that legal protections for women should be discarded when they come into conflict with protections for trans people.

It is surprising to find so many posters on a discussion board like this that is so pro-scientific are willing to ignore that biological reality.

 

[thebeave]

Honestly, at this stage of my life, you'd think I'd have become inured to the way that men women so often just dismiss women's trans people's concerns and women's trans people's issues. It doesn't affect them, so who gives a fuck. But I just. keep. being. surprised by the sheer callousness and disregard shown toward women trans people sometimes.

Works this way too.

Not really. Most gender critics (male and female) support legal protections for trans people. They just don't buy into the crazy idea that gender identity trumps biological reality. Nor do they think that legal protections for women should be discarded when they come into conflict with protections for trans people.

It is surprising to find so many posters on a discussion board like this that is so pro-scientific are willing to ignore that biological reality.

Yep. Its why I find the idea that "right wingers" are anti-science and "left wingers" are pro-science to be just nonsense. Both ideologies have their share of anti-science beliefs, and neither seem to recognize it in themselves.

 

[ZiprHead]

Not really. Most gender critics (male and female) support legal protections for trans people. They just don't buy into the crazy idea that gender identity trumps biological reality. Nor do they think that legal protections for women should be discarded when they come into conflict with protections for trans people.

It is surprising to find so many posters on a discussion board like this that is so pro-scientific are willing to ignore that biological reality.

Yep. Its why I find the idea that "right wingers" are anti-science and "left wingers" are pro-science to be just nonsense. Both ideologies have their share of anti-science beliefs, and neither seem to recognize it in themselves.

Isn't it a scientific fact that the brains of trans people are wired to the opposite of the sex of the rest of their bodies?

 

[Trausti]

Not really. Most gender critics (male and female) support legal protections for trans people. They just don't buy into the crazy idea that gender identity trumps biological reality. Nor do they think that legal protections for women should be discarded when they come into conflict with protections for trans people.

It is surprising to find so many posters on a discussion board like this that is so pro-scientific are willing to ignore that biological reality.

Yep. Its why I find the idea that "right wingers" are anti-science and "left wingers" are pro-science to be just nonsense. Both ideologies have their share of anti-science beliefs, and neither seem to recognize it in themselves.

Isn't it a scientific fact that the brains of trans people are wired to the opposite of the sex of the rest of their bodies?

So we’re just gonna ignore every other biological difference? Humans are sexually dimorphic for no reason whatsoever? No one is denying how a transperson may feel about themselves. But if someone truly believed they were a dog, we’re just gonna go with it?

 

[ZiprHead]

Isn't it a scientific fact that the brains of trans people are wired to the opposite of the sex of the rest of their bodies?

So we’re just gonna ignore every other biological difference? Humans are sexually dimorphic for no reason whatsoever? No one is denying how a transperson may feel about themselves. But if someone truly believed they were a dog, we’re just gonna go with it?

Is the brain wired to be a dog?

 

[Trausti]

Isn't it a scientific fact that the brains of trans people are wired to the opposite of the sex of the rest of their bodies?

So we’re just gonna ignore every other biological difference? Humans are sexually dimorphic for no reason whatsoever? No one is denying how a transperson may feel about themselves. But if someone truly believed they were a dog, we’re just gonna go with it?

Is the brain wired to be a dog?

Nice dodge.

 

[ZiprHead]

Is the brain wired to be a dog?

Nice dodge.

Saying people want to be dogs wasn't a dodge?

 

[Trausti]

Is the brain wired to be a dog?

Nice dodge.

Saying people want to be dogs wasn't a dodge?

So you’re saying there’s a disconnect between what some may feel in the brain and their biological body? You may have a point there.

 

[Jarhyn]

Of course, sooner than later it always comes down to this: "gender critical" implies revocation of genital privacy.

If my genitals are a private matter, then the sum total of information someone gets from me is "what they see", which is "expressed gender identity".

So to discriminate on what gender identities I may express on the basis of my genitals is discrimination against me on the basis of my genitals. It's a violation of my privacy and dignity to assume what my genitals are, so it seems to me that any such discrimination on the basis of gender identity is a violation of dignity and privacy.

 

[Trausti]

Of course, sooner than later it always comes down to this: "gender critical" implies revocation of genital privacy.

If my genitals are a private matter, then the sum total of information someone gets from me is "what they see", which is "expressed gender identity".

So to discriminate on what gender identities I may express on the basis of my genitals is discrimination against me on the basis of my genitals. It's a violation of my privacy and dignity to assume what my genitals are, so it seems to me that any such discrimination on the basis of gender identity is a violation of dignity and privacy.

Are you unaware that sexual dimorphism produced many more sex differences than genitals?

 

[TomC]

Not really. Most gender critics (male and female) support legal protections for trans people. They just don't buy into the crazy idea that gender identity trumps biological reality. Nor do they think that legal protections for women should be discarded when they come into conflict with protections for trans people.

It is surprising to find so many posters on a discussion board like this that is so pro-scientific are willing to ignore that biological reality.

Yep. Its why I find the idea that "right wingers" are anti-science and "left wingers" are pro-science to be just nonsense. Both ideologies have their share of anti-science beliefs, and neither seem to recognize it in themselves.

Isn't it a scientific fact that the brains of trans people are wired to the opposite of the sex of the rest of their bodies?

No.

There are indications that this is sometimes the case to some degree or another. But it's all rather vague.

And honestly, I don't even think the term "transgender" truly has a scientifically precise meaning. The meaning is almost entirely about culture. I'm sure that there are some differences between the typical female brain structure and the typical male brain structure. There's also differences in bone structure and sexual instincts.
Tom

 

[Gospel]

Ohhhhhh snap. Tomc is dropping neuroscientist bombs yo!

 

[Politesse]

Yes, people are all about the science. Until an actual scientist shows up to point out that science does not, in fact, blindly endorse all of their regressive social beliefs.

 

[Trausti]

Yes, people are all about the science. Until an actual scientist shows up to point out that science does not, in fact, blindly endorse all of their regressive social beliefs.

There's a "scientist" who denies biological sex differences between male and female? No fuk'n way.

 

[Politesse]

Yes, people are all about the science. Until an actual scientist shows up to point out that science does not, in fact, blindly endorse all of their regressive social beliefs.

There's a "scientist" who denies biological sex differences between male and female? No fuk'n way.

Of course not. No one does that.

Actual scientists do understand intersex conditions a lot better, though, and the very important differences between sex and gender as well.

 

[TSwizzle]

Of course, sooner than later it always comes down to this: "gender critical" implies revocation of genital privacy.

If my genitals are a private matter, then the sum total of information someone gets from me is "what they see", which is "expressed gender identity".

So to discriminate on what gender identities I may express on the basis of my genitals is discrimination against me on the basis of my genitals. It's a violation of my privacy and dignity to assume what my genitals are, so it seems to me that any such discrimination on the basis of gender identity is a violation of dignity and privacy.

"revocation of genital privacy" ? "to assume what my genitals are" ? Clucking bell, what a load of codswallop. Normal people are not obsessing about what's in your underwear.

 

[J842P]

Isn't it a scientific fact that the brains of trans people are wired to the opposite of the sex of the rest of their bodies?

No it isn't.

 

[Emily Lake]

Honestly, at this stage of my life, you'd think I'd have become inured to the way that men women so often just dismiss women's trans people's concerns and women's trans people's issues. It doesn't affect them, so who gives a fuck. But I just. keep. being. surprised by the sheer callousness and disregard shown toward women trans people sometimes.

Works this way too.

No, it really doesn't. Because those trans people's issues DIRECTLY affect women. Passing laws that allow penis-havers to be placed in shared cells in prison with women DIRECTLY affects women. Passing policies that insist that a male-bodied, testosterone-fueled person is allowed to compete against girls in sports DIRECTLY affects women. Policies that allow men who self-declare themselves to feel like women be counted as women for the purposes of statistics, pay gap measurements, and representation in business and politics DIRECTLY affects women.

But sure, go ahead and lecture me on how I'm not being nice enough, and how women are just the worstest, not letting those men have their way. That person with a penis over there? Yeah, he wants to see me naked. And well, he said the magic words, so now I am expected to let him look at me naked, because he's a woman too. .