George Zimmerman Arrested On Domestic Violence And Weapons Charge

[AthenaAwakened]

Yeah, the stuff you struck out...matter.

Stop Stanning.

They characterize the point you are trying to make or make a sweeping pronouncement without making a case. They only matter to you without evidence you share with me (and others who don't already agree with you). It's that simple. Feel free to strike out statements from me that are of a similar nature (e.g., this is clear, this is absurd). If this is "stanning" then I'm guilty as charged. Maybe I care more about the integrity of the debate than fanning the flames.

There is no such evidence that Zimmerman tried to detain Martin

There clearly is. The location of Martin's body, the testimony of Rachel Jeantelle. This one is really easy.

Why are people still Stanning for this violent dude George Zimmerman?

Why are people still Stanning for this violent dude George Zimmerman?

Because to do otherwise would mean those people were wrong, and more than that, they chose the immoral side.

Wrong and immoral is an admission that is not going to happen.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Given how many arrests this jerk has had for being a violent prick - both before and after he murdered Trayvon - it just disgusts me how many people still defend him.

Just because Z is a violent prick doesn't mean that Trayvon wasn't one as well. And being a violent prick does not mean one forfeits one's right to self defense or the need for the state to prove your guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

Exactly. Zimmerman is scum. That doesn't remove the right of self defense, though.

 

[Davka]

Just because Z is a violent prick doesn't mean that Trayvon wasn't one as well. And being a violent prick does not mean one forfeits one's right to self defense or the need for the state to prove your guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

Exactly. Zimmerman is scum. That doesn't remove the right of self defense, though.

Just a few days ago, i seem to recall a case in which a guy thought things were about to go sideways, so he went to his car to get his gun, and shot the guy who came at him. For some reason, there was widespread agreement that he had no right to self-defense. But Z did essentially the same thing, after being told not to by the police dispatcher, and somehow he magically did have the right to self-defense.

What is the difference? The fact that the victim of the shooting is still alive, and able to contradict the shooter's account? Or simply the skin color of the people involved? Because it sure as fuck isn't that the situations were radically different.

 

[Rhea]

Stop Stanning.

Learned a new word today. I thought it was a typo the first time. But the repeats made me look it up.

Stanning
The act of being overly obsessed with an artist/person/character/etc.

STalker + fAN = STAN

Eminem's song "Stan" embodied all the aspects of what it means to be a huge fanatic of a music artist, and the word has since been used to encompass all obsessive fan behavior.
My Xander love comes from my Buffy stanning.

I've been stanning Beyonce for so long I couldn't stop if I wanted to.

Learn something new every day.

 

[Rhea]

Just because Z is a violent prick doesn't mean that Trayvon wasn't one as well. And being a violent prick does not mean one forfeits one's right to self defense or the need for the state to prove your guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

Exactly. Zimmerman is scum. That doesn't remove the right of self defense, though.

So you're saying that Michael Brown was justified in grabbing Wilson's gun since it was pointed at him?

 

[Testy Calibrate]

Given how many arrests this jerk has had for being a violent prick - both before and after he murdered Trayvon - it just disgusts me how many people still defend him.

Just because Z is a violent prick doesn't mean that Trayvon wasn't one as well. And being a violent prick does not mean one forfeits one's right to self defense or the need for the state to prove your guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

Wow. That's a left fielder.

On a related note, for right or wrong, Zimmerman is a free man. And in need of some redemption.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Learned a new word today. I thought it was a typo the first time. But the repeats made me look it up.

Stanning
The act of being overly obsessed with an artist/person/character/etc.

STalker + fAN = STAN

Eminem's song "Stan" embodied all the aspects of what it means to be a huge fanatic of a music artist, and the word has since been used to encompass all obsessive fan behavior.
My Xander love comes from my Buffy stanning.

I've been stanning Beyonce for so long I couldn't stop if I wanted to.

Learn something new every day.

Thanks. I dun not knowed dat iThur.

 

[Arctish]

You do not lose right to self defense by merely confronting somebody. The question is who attacked whom, not who spoke to whom first, and evidence suggests it was M attacking Z.

This is where we fundamentally disagree. You shouldn't be able to confront someone that's not doing anything illegal. If you do then you forfeit any self defense claims later.

Slight change: You shouldn't be able to put someone in fear for their life and safety when they are just minding their own business and not doing anything illegal. If you do then you forfeit any self defense claims unless you changed your mind and made a genuine, obvious effort to disengage.

Zimmerman defenders continuously discount the fact Martin had a legitimate fear for his life and safety. He was being followed by a creep from a car in a dark neighborhood. I and many others have shared our own experiences of being followed at night by a stranger with unknown intentions. I posted several times that in my case, as soon as I realized a guy was following me and my girlfriends I started looking for a nice big tree branch I might use to defend us if the guy attacked. I was preparing to whoop-ass, as Martin might have been. That does not mean I would have attacked or that Martin did attack. If it truly was the case that Martin was ready to defend himself, he had reason and he had the right.

 

[Arctish]

No, it's not.

Assuming that by "Wilson" you mean the guy that shot Michael Brown, um, Darren Wilson was a police officer. Yes, he was aggressive. That's a part of his job. We pay police to be aggressive when necessary. And it's pretty clear that Wilson had a clear call linking Michael Brown to a robbery. That's worth looking into. Also, um, they get official cars and uniforms so that people can identify them. I still say that that shooting may have been legit.

(Now, the police force flipping out while people were mourning, is another matter. And it could have been hashed out in trial, if the prosecutor hadn't gone so far as to unethically thrown the trial.)

In contrast, Zimmerman had no reason at all to suspect Martin of doing anything wrong - and as far as we know, Martin simply just walked to the corner store to get some snacks and then walked back home, only to have some random dude chase him down. Zimmerman was clearly a violent idiot, right from the first time we heard about him.

So what exactly is it? Why would anyone still Stan for this guy? I mean, I get only one reason, though I'll keep it to myself...

It would be more accurate if you had said "I chased down and shot a teenager for beating my ass in retaliation for following him." Unless you think the ass beating is irrelevant like Nexus apparently does. And I'm not at all sure the pre-TM history of GZ is all that damning. He has certainly gone downhill since then.

Zimmerman had a Restraining Order filed against him by his former fiance. He was arrested for and pled guilty to assaulting a police officer. A former co-worker said Zimmerman lost his part-time security job after he picked up a drunk woman and threw her down on a sidewalk. Zimmerman was living alone the night he went after Martin because he and his wife had had a fight so bad she went to live with her parents. His life might not have been going downhill at that point, but it was certainly turbulent and notably punctuated by outbursts and violence.

Everything that has happened since is just a continuation of an established pattern. Zimmerman is a violent, confrontational man prone to bullying and pulling out guns to get his way.

 

[RavenSky]

Given how many arrests this jerk has had for being a violent prick - both before and after he murdered Trayvon - it just disgusts me how many people still defend him.

Just because Z is a violent prick doesn't mean that Trayvon wasn't one as well. And being a violent prick does not mean one forfeits one's right to self defense or the need for the state to prove your guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

Blah blah blah. Zimmerman murdered Trayvon after chasing him down... and Zimmerman got away with it. All of the facts do support that Zimmerman chased down and murdered Trayvon. None of the facts support the ridiculous fantasies that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman. And I am not going to argue the case with you yet again, so don't bother replying.

Zimmerman is a violent THUG who needs to be behind bars.

 

[laughing dog]

Zimmerman is a violent THUG who needs to be behind bars.

Zimmerman does not need to be behind bars. Society needs Zimmerman behind bars or gone from the face of the earth. Frankly, I am surprised he is still alive.

 

[RavenSky]

Well...yeah, he's a violent guy. What.

What part of "I chased down and shot a teenager for walking down my street." Did people not understand?

Just like Wilson stopped and executed an unarmed black teenager for jaywalking? This is substantive oversimplification.

Wrong. Mumbles portrayal of what Zimmerman did is exactly on target. You are the only person trying to compare it to the other case.

 

[EPresence2]

It would be more accurate if you had said "I chased down and shot a teenager for beating my ass in retaliation for following him." Unless you think the ass beating is irrelevant like Nexus apparently does. And I'm not at all sure the pre-TM history of GZ is all that damning. He has certainly gone downhill since then.

Zimmerman had a Restraining Order filed against him by his former fiance. He was arrested for and pled guilty to assaulting a police officer. A former co-worker said Zimmerman lost his part-time security job after he picked up a drunk woman and threw her down on a sidewalk. Zimmerman was living alone the night he went after Martin because he and his wife had had a fight so bad she went to live with her parents. His life might not have been going downhill at that point, but it was certainly turbulent and notably punctuated by outbursts and violence.

Everything that has happened since is just a continuation of an established pattern. Zimmerman is a violent, confrontational man prone to bullying and pulling out guns to get his way.

Now if we're going to start going down the road of character evaluation, why leave out all the other things going on with Zimmerman? Like the spat of robberies in his neighborhood and description of the suspects - maybe his paranoia was somewhat justified. For better or worse, he was also the neighborhood watch captain - yet he stepped over the line to follow a suspicious person. There were other things going on with this guy that a selective focus tends to leave out. Why don't we also go into details about TM's life that suggest a tendency to react violently? I reckon you expect the "other side" to do that - well fuck the "sides" (e.g. GZ or TM defenders). The facts of the case didn't support the charge. They still don't. What happened to Zimmerman after the case is really irrelevant to that case. If you keep telling someone they are a monster (e.g., death threats, lampooning), they may find it easier to become one.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Zimmerman is a violent THUG who needs to be behind bars.

Zimmerman does not need to be behind bars. Society needs Zimmerman behind bars or gone from the face of the earth. Frankly, I am surprised he is still alive.

Oh, I am sure he has become much more circumspect about where he goes and who he is with. But that can only go so far and only for so long, especially with someone like Zimmerman who is predisposed to act without thinking. He will most likely cross the wrong path eventually, or hit the wrong woman.

 

[RavenSky]

It would be more accurate if you had said "I chased down and shot a teenager for beating my ass in retaliation for following him."

That would be entirely inaccurate because that isn't even close to what happened.

Zimmerman did not "chase down" Trayvon following any sort of beating or confrontation

 

[RavenSky]

Just because Z is a violent prick doesn't mean that Trayvon wasn't one as well. And being a violent prick does not mean one forfeits one's right to self defense or the need for the state to prove your guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

Exactly. Zimmerman is scum. That doesn't remove the right of self defense, though.

It wasn't self-defense. He was an aggressive violent asshole before he murdered Trayvon. He was a violent aggressive asshole when he murdered Trayvon. And he is still a violent aggressive asshole now.

Every single situation, not including when he murdered Trayvon, Zimmerman was the aggressor and Zimmerman was the liar. Even if I did not know anything else about the Trayvon Martin case, the fact that Zimmerman had a history of being the aggressor and then lying about it after tells me he was the aggressor against Trayvon, and then lied about it.

And every situation the asshole has gotten himself into since then, he has been the aggressor and the liar.

How any of you can still defend him is disgusting.

 

[laughing dog]

It would be more accurate if you had said "I chased down and shot a teenager for beating my ass in retaliation for following him."

That would be entirely inaccurate because that isn't even close to what happened.

Zimmerman did not "chase down" Trayvon following any sort of beating or confrontation

Nor did Zimmerman look like he got his ass beat.

 

[Testy Calibrate]

Zimmerman had a Restraining Order filed against him by his former fiance. He was arrested for and pled guilty to assaulting a police officer. A former co-worker said Zimmerman lost his part-time security job after he picked up a drunk woman and threw her down on a sidewalk. Zimmerman was living alone the night he went after Martin because he and his wife had had a fight so bad she went to live with her parents. His life might not have been going downhill at that point, but it was certainly turbulent and notably punctuated by outbursts and violence.

Everything that has happened since is just a continuation of an established pattern. Zimmerman is a violent, confrontational man prone to bullying and pulling out guns to get his way.

Now if we're going to start going down the road of character evaluation, why leave out all the other things going on with Zimmerman? Like the spat of robberies in his neighborhood and description of the suspects - maybe his paranoia was somewhat justified. For better or worse, he was also the neighborhood watch captain - yet he stepped over the line to follow a suspicious person. There were other things going on with this guy that a selective focus tends to leave out. Why don't we also go into details about TM's life that suggest a tendency to react violently? I reckon you expect the "other side" to do that - well fuck the "sides" (e.g. GZ or TM defenders). The facts of the case didn't support the charge. They still don't. What happened to Zimmerman after the case is really irrelevant to that case. If you keep telling someone they are a monster (e.g., death threats, lampooning), they may find it easier to become one.

I find it hard to justify shooting an unarmed teenager who was walking home at night. However, now that the stupid act is done, he could at least make an effort to find redemption. Reaching out to Martins' family seems to be basically a requirement no matter what happened. His own life of personal goal pursuit is clearly over for the time being. He could make some use of the time he does have.

 

[Nexus]

So you should just accept whatever force escalation is thrown at you? This is another absurd conclusion. That said, I would say GZ deserved some punishment for starting the verbal confrontation and resulting homicide.

Based on your last sentence I'm not sure we're in disagreement despite your beginning sentences. To clarify my position, if you initiate the conflict you should lose the ability to claim self defense in court.

 

[Arctish]

Zimmerman had a Restraining Order filed against him by his former fiance. He was arrested for and pled guilty to assaulting a police officer. A former co-worker said Zimmerman lost his part-time security job after he picked up a drunk woman and threw her down on a sidewalk. Zimmerman was living alone the night he went after Martin because he and his wife had had a fight so bad she went to live with her parents. His life might not have been going downhill at that point, but it was certainly turbulent and notably punctuated by outbursts and violence.

Everything that has happened since is just a continuation of an established pattern. Zimmerman is a violent, confrontational man prone to bullying and pulling out guns to get his way.

Now if we're going to start going down the road of character evaluation, why leave out all the other things going on with Zimmerman? Like the spat of robberies in his neighborhood and description of the suspects - maybe his paranoia was somewhat justified. For better or worse, he was also the neighborhood watch captain - yet he stepped over the line to follow a suspicious person. There were other things going on with this guy that a selective focus tends to leave out. Why don't we also go into details about TM's life that suggest a tendency to react violently? I reckon you expect the "other side" to do that - well fuck the "sides" (e.g. GZ or TM defenders). The facts of the case didn't support the charge. They still don't. What happened to Zimmerman after the case is really irrelevant to that case. If you keep telling someone they are a monster (e.g., death threats, lampooning), they may find it easier to become one.

My post was a direct response to what you wrote. You said you weren't all that sure the pre-TM history of GZ is all that damning. I gave a quick run-down of the damning parts. Zimmerman had a documented history of violence and domestic turmoil. Now you are suggesting we commit a Tu Quoque fallacy, but even if we ignore the obvious flaw that argument still doesn't work. There just isn't anything in Martin's history that compares with throwing a cop against a wall, or a woman to the pavement, or a fight so bad the courts handed down a Restraining Order. There's really no comparison.