God Paradoxes

[Juma]

But you want to be a jerk?

It's raining here so I'd be prepared to countenance a conversation with you but you have to be two to tango and you don't do English tango.
EB

So you rather make a condescending remark then answer the question.

You really are a nice person, not.

 

[4321lynx]

There are no God paradoxes as he/she/it does not exist.

But God does exist, at least as an idea.

As does Santa, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, the Devil, Zeus & Co, and a whole regiment of Hindu gods, just to give a few examples.

 

[4321lynx]

Yeah but this idea of an all-powerfull God is so WEAK it's not even a real God. How powerful a non-existent God can be do you think?
EB

Powerful enough to have holy wars in your name and have people like you and me burnt at the stake for you.

Ah, the Loving Merciful Christian god, --- Abrahamic Version II .
Version ?? III presently being worked out once again in the Middle East under the pseudonym Allah, much nearer in spirit to Version I as shown in Old Testament and 312 (?? 612) actions recommended by realist ancient Hebrews.

Who's to say whether this idea is just a Delusion of Crowds, their Illusion, or as someone just said here, the result of their/our unreformed and outdated DNA leading to mass psychopathy and/or sociopathic behaviour of those crowds.

 

[Learner]

But God does exist, at least as an idea.

As does Santa, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, the Devil, Zeus & Co, and a whole regiment of Hindu gods, just to give a few examples.

If you add in Atheists and Agnostics then we pretty much have the whole human race. We then all believe in something or other.

 

[Juma]

As does Santa, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, the Devil, Zeus & Co, and a whole regiment of Hindu gods, just to give a few examples.

If you add in Atheists and Agnostics then we pretty much have the whole human race. We then all believe in something or other.

? Atheism doesnt require belief in anything.

 

[Lion IRC]

Right!
Atheists are 100% certain. They don't need beliefs.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Right!
Atheists are 100% certain. They don't need beliefs.

You're confusing atheists and atheism.
Try harder.

 

[Lion IRC]

What? Atheists don't believe in atheism?

There's ether belief that God does/doesn't exist or certainty.

Are atheists certain God doesn't exist? Or do they believe God doesn't exist?

If it's certainty then I would like them to justify their position with evidence. TIA

 

[Keith&Co.]

What? Atheists don't believe in atheism?

There are quite a few theists who will tell us that they don't believe in atheism. It seems kind of silly, but they'll insist there's really no such thing. It seems important to them.
Atheists certainly believe in atheism. And gravity. And Christains. And SC decisions... Even if they disagree with them, they believe they exist.

There's ether belief that God does/doesn't exist or certainty.

Um, no. Wrong.

Are atheists certain God doesn't exist? Or do they believe God doesn't exist?

False dichotomy. And not the point i was trying to make.

Someone made a point about atheism and you responded by commenting about atheists. And badly.
It's more like someone made a comment about Christain decoration.
And you said that you don't have to have stained glass windows to be Christain.
And the person you were talking with made a comment about Christain drivers thinking they don't need to be able to see through their windshields because they believe God is their copilot.

ATHEISM is describes a position on the existence of gods. It says the designated individual does not have a belief in any deities.

They can believe in the flag, or ghosts, Sasquatch, Picard vs. Kirk, the Oxford comma.

They may believe there are no gods, they may be uncertain there are any gods, or they may not give a shit whether or not there are gods. As long as they lack a theistic belief, they're atheists. That's all that atheism requires or implies.

If it's certainty then I would like them to justify their position with evidence. TIA

Well, if you're going to hold people accountable for defending positions they may not actually hold, then FOIA.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

What? Atheists don't believe in atheism?

There's ether belief that God does/doesn't exist or certainty.

Are atheists certain God doesn't exist? Or do they believe God doesn't exist?

If it's certainty then I would like them to justify their position with evidence. TIA

An atheist is an atheist if they do not believe in God(s). It does not matter if they have a good reason to disbelieve, a bad reason to disbelieve or offer no reason at all for not believing.

I myself am a strong atheist. The various definitions of God soon involve themselves in self contradiction, logical problems, silliness and self-disconfirmation. This Universe does not seem to be a Universe that has an all powerful being who loves us and is concerned with our doings as theists would like us to believe. The rest of theology is saving of appearances and special pleading.

 

[iolo]

I don't quite see why people need to define themselves in terms of beliefs they don't hold, or be quite so obsessed with the matter. It seems to me that, like many other things, gods are improbable. So, discuss the matter when it seems to matter, and don't get involved in the equivalent of the war in the trenches back in 1916: that didn't get anywhere for a long time either.

 

[Learner]

An atheist is an atheist if they do not believe in God(s). It does not matter if they have a good reason to disbelieve, a bad reason to disbelieve or offer no reason at all for not believing.

I myself am a strong atheist. The various definitions of God soon involve themselves in self contradiction, logical problems, silliness and self-disconfirmation. This Universe does not seem to be a Universe that has an all powerful being who loves us and is concerned with our doings as theists would like us to believe. The rest of theology is saving of appearances and special pleading.

Would you be open to the possibility that aliens from far more advanced civilizations elsewhere could have created humans on earth? I only ask this because some Atheists like Dawkins may do so. I used to think about the possibilty myself some time ago.

(Perhaps a discussion for another thread or one that already exists)

 

[Keith&Co.]

I don't quite see why people need to define themselves in terms of beliefs they don't hold, or be quite so obsessed with the matter.

In my case, it's mostly because everyone around me is even more obsessed with the matter.

 

[iolo]

I don't quite see why people need to define themselves in terms of beliefs they don't hold, or be quite so obsessed with the matter.

In my case, it's mostly because everyone around me is even more obsessed with the matter.

Ah - depends on place and time, doubtless. I suppose we are lucky here, in that respect anyway.

 

[Lion IRC]

There are quite a few theists who will tell us that they don't believe in atheism. It seems kind of silly, but they'll insist there's really no such thing. It seems important to them.
Atheists certainly believe in atheism. And gravity. And Christains. And SC decisions... Even if they disagree with them, they believe they exist.

There's ether belief that God does/doesn't exist or certainty.

Um, no. Wrong.

Are atheists certain God doesn't exist? Or do they believe God doesn't exist?

False dichotomy. And not the point i was trying to make.

Someone made a point about atheism and you responded by commenting about atheists. And badly.
It's more like someone made a comment about Christain decoration.
And you said that you don't have to have stained glass windows to be Christain.
And the person you were talking with made a comment about Christain drivers thinking they don't need to be able to see through their windshields because they believe God is their copilot.

ATHEISM is describes a position on the existence of gods. It says the designated individual does not have a belief in any deities.

They can believe in the flag, or ghosts, Sasquatch, Picard vs. Kirk, the Oxford comma.

They may believe there are no gods, they may be uncertain there are any gods, or they may not give a shit whether or not there are gods. As long as they lack a theistic belief, they're atheists. That's all that atheism requires or implies.

If it's certainty then I would like them to justify their position with evidence. TIA

Well, if you're going to hold people accountable for defending positions they may not actually hold, then FOIA.

You didn't answer the question.
I asked are atheists certain God doesn't exist? Or do they believe God doesn't exist?
What's so hard about admitting it's the latter?

 

[Keith&Co.]

You didn't answer the question.
I asked are atheists certain God doesn't exist? Or do they believe God doesn't exist?
What's so hard about admitting it's the latter?

That's funny. In Kyroot's thread, you complain about him lumping all Christains into one general category, but here, you want to treat all atheists as having the same outlook.

That is part of why it's difficult to reply to a question which, for 100 atheists, probably has 120 answers. None of which you seem prepared to actually hear..

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

An atheist is an atheist if they do not believe in God(s). It does not matter if they have a good reason to disbelieve, a bad reason to disbelieve or offer no reason at all for not believing.

I myself am a strong atheist. The various definitions of God soon involve themselves in self contradiction, logical problems, silliness and self-disconfirmation. This Universe does not seem to be a Universe that has an all powerful being who loves us and is concerned with our doings as theists would like us to believe. The rest of theology is saving of appearances and special pleading.

Would you be open to the possibility that aliens from far more advanced civilizations elsewhere could have created humans on earth? I only ask this because some Atheists like Dawkins may do so. I used to think about the possibilty myself some time ago.

(Perhaps a discussion for another thread or one that already exists)

No. I doubt anything like that happened. The fossil record demonstrates hordes of hominids have evolved on earth, we are just the lucky survivors who evolved the most and were the most successful.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

An atheist is an atheist if they do not believe in God(s). It does not matter if they have a good reason to disbelieve, a bad reason to disbelieve or offer no reason at all for not believing.

I myself am a strong atheist. The various definitions of God soon involve themselves in self contradiction, logical problems, silliness and self-disconfirmation. This Universe does not seem to be a Universe that has an all powerful being who loves us and is concerned with our doings as theists would like us to believe. The rest of theology is saving of appearances and special pleading.

Would you be open to the possibility that aliens from far more advanced civilizations elsewhere could have created humans on earth? I only ask this because some Atheists like Dawkins may do so. I used to think about the possibilty myself some time ago.

(Perhaps a discussion for another thread or one that already exists)

They could have, but there's no reason to think that's the case so it would be a weird thing to believe.

It also ignores the entire premise behind the where life came from argument and just pushes the question back more to asking where the aliens came from. At least with the God answer, you're pointing something fundamentally different entering the equation and kicking things off, but saying that life started on this planet because it started a little bit earlier on another planet is ignoring the question, not answering it.

 

[DrZoidberg]

There are numerous paradoxes associated with the idea of an omnimax god, some familiar, some not as familiar. Here are some.

Omnipotence:
Can God make a stone so heavy that he cannot lift it?
Can God microwave a burrito so hot that he couldn't eat it?

A related one is:
What would happen if an irresistible force met an immovable object?

Omniscience:
Does God have direct experience of committing sins?
Does God have direct experience of anything that his structure keeps it from experiencing? Like experiencing having a body and everything associated with it.

Also:
Can God change?
Can God stop being God or commit suicide?
Doesn't God get bored?
Doesn't Got get spoiled by never having setbacks or other difficulties to overcome?
Doesn't God get spoiled by a lack of challenges or supposed character-building experiences?
Doesn't God get spoiled by not needing any willpower to resist temptations or face danger?
Since God is supposedly uncreated, doesn't he lead a purposeless, meaningless, empty, and miserable existence?

Does God have an existence like the main character in the Twilight Zone episode "A Nice Place to Visit"? A small-time street thug winds up in a place where he can have everything he wants, but after a while, he gets bored and wants to check out "the other place". His host then tells him that he is in "the other place".

The philosopher Carneades concluded that an omnimax god cannot be completely virtuous, because some virtues depend on having limited capabilities.

If God never feels tempted to do anything bad, does that mean that God will never display the virtue of resisting temptation?
Since God is invulnerable, does that mean that God never needs to have any courage?

Then, of course, the Problem of Evil.

I've always treated the ominipotence and omniscience of God as a clue that the creators of the Abrahamitic God knew that it was all just metaphor and poetic licence. I think they were trying to communicate it. Why do I believe that? Because they could read and write. They were the extreme top most elite of Jewish society. They have to have been. That means they also studied Greek philosophy. They knew omnipotence was bullshit. They still put it into the Bible. This is interesting.

BTW, my favourite is omnipotence and freedom. If an agent in a system can chose to do anything. Then everything that it doesn't effect is only doing so because the ominipotent agent has chosen not to. The point is that an omnipotent agent cannot grant freedom to anything. This is kind of complicated and is best described with maths. But it's a solid proof. If God is omnipotent then everything is God and there is nothing else in the system. This isn't a deep statement. Not at all. It's nonsense.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Also, what's with God trying to get angels to squeeze together onto a pinhead anyways? That seems like and odd and obsessive abuse of power, sort of like how the Kims like to get all the North Korean people to do synchronized dances for him in the main square. I get that immortality means that you always need to find new ways to fill the time, but this is a bit of a freakish choice on his part.

And what about the number of angel's wings denote rank in heaven. So the topmost angel, the metatron, has 36 wings. That's 18 pairs. I've always wondered about the aerodynamics of that. How does the Metatron keep them from getting tangled. Is there a kind of bumble-bee situation with creating vortixes? Also, are they tiny. Is is many small ones? Are they all big? Or a combination? What's going on here?