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God Paradoxes

Well I'm not used to having folks restate my position as being the exact opposite of what I just said.
No bilby, I don't think God is synonymous with nothing.
Yes Juma, I do think God exists.

Think or believe?

Or do you think so or merely believe that you think so?

Define your God in under one page of this thread, using single spaced type of the size I'm using here.

And prove it, or show the evidence even if you can't prove it 100%
 
Well I'm not used to having folks restate my position as being the exact opposite of what I just said.
No bilby, I don't think God is synonymous with nothing.
Yes Juma, I do think God exists.

Then you could answer my first question: which of them?


I think there is only one. But I accept that there are many impressions of divinity.
 
So you dont say that god exists?


I say God isn't handcuffed by imaginary man-made paradoxes.

Neither is Superman, because he's a fictional character and the plots he's in can just have the paradoxes written out of them because the authors decide to not care too much about reality. God has the same advantages for the same reasons.
 
Well I'm not used to having folks restate my position as being the exact opposite of what I just said.
No bilby, I don't think God is synonymous with nothing.
Yes Juma, I do think God exists.

What you said was:

A universe out of nothing is quite plausible.
...both according to the bible and according to Lawrence Krauss.

Which implies that both Lawrence Krauss and the Bible agree that the universe came from nothing.

You claim that the universe came from God; The only logical way to reconcile that claim with your statement "A universe out of nothing is quite plausible", is if 'God' and 'Nothing' are synonyms.

What I said wasn't the exact opposite of what you said; it was a direct and clear logical inference, based only on what you have said in this thread.

Another reasonable inference would be that you believe that the Bible and Lawrence Krauss are both wrong. But that would suggest that you believe the Bible to be wrong, but that you nevertheless believe in the God described therein, which would be seriously inconsistent.

Still, if you are saying that the Biblical account of creation is wrong, then I agree with that too.
 
What you said was:

A universe out of nothing is quite plausible.
...both according to the bible and according to Lawrence Krauss.

Which implies that both Lawrence Krauss and the Bible agree that the universe came from nothing.

Lawrence Krauss wrote a whole book dedicated to the idea of a universe out of nothing.


...Still, if you are saying that the Biblical account of creation is wrong, then I agree with that too.

If you are saying the Biblical account of creation is right, then I agree with you.
*yawn* this is gonna get boring pretty fast.
 
What you said was:



Which implies that both Lawrence Krauss and the Bible agree that the universe came from nothing.

Lawrence Krauss wrote a whole book dedicated to the idea of a universe out of nothing.


...Still, if you are saying that the Biblical account of creation is wrong, then I agree with that too.

If you are saying the Biblical account of creation is right, then I agree with you.
*yawn* this is gonna get boring pretty fast.

Your inability to avoid obvious and simple contradictions in your position isn't my fault.

My inability not to take the piss when you do is my problem. But not one that worries me much.

Let me know if you want to stop contradicting yourself and put up a valid argument. Then we can get to the much less tedious business of seeing whether it is also sound.

Until then, I shall amuse myself shooting fish in this barrel.
 
Are the metaphysical necessities, the laws of logic and nature, the rules of the Universe, the logic of the Universe created by God? Or outside and beyond God, not God's creation? Is 2 + 2 = 4 something outside of God's control? Or could God make 2 + 2 = 5 if he so desired, as per Duns Scotus, William of Okham, Rene Descartes and others?

Or, super-naturalism or naturalism? Do these sorts of metaphysical and physical necessities limit God? Where do they come from, if so?
 
The list of contradictions created by omnipotence, omniscience, and omnibenevolence (never mind various combinations thereof) is simply staggering. I seriously doubt we can cover them all in one thread. Every so often, I will watch some YouTube video and think "Oh, I haven't heard that one before."
 
The list of contradictions created by omnipotence, omniscience, and omnibenevolence (never mind various combinations thereof) is simply staggering. I seriously doubt we can cover them all in one thread. Every so often, I will watch some YouTube video and think "Oh, I haven't heard that one before."

Omnipotence and omniscience maybe synonymous, or overlap to a great deal, but neither imply omnibenevolence in any sense. In a universe where predator and prey coexist, it is not possible to benevolent to all, at least in the eyes of the prey.
 
Lawrence Krauss wrote a whole book dedicated to the idea of a universe out of nothing.

What he also explains is that the word 'nothing' is a human concept that has no real reference in nature.
It only exists as a word and a way to think. In reality there are always things going in on some level.

We have two entities competing for the position of "eternal and uncreated."
For one of them, we have vast evidence that it really exists. For the other, we have no evidence at all.

This is why an "eternal and uncreated universe" is a vastly superior answer to the question of ultimate reality than an "eternal and uncreated god."
At least as far as the evidence is concerned. :)
 
What he also explains is that the word 'nothing' is a human concept that has no real reference in nature.
Really? I'm relatively sure he dug himself a comfortable little troll-hole with that ostentatious claim about nothing. I remember (take it with a grain of salt) him getting called out on it by others at a talk, backpeddling and deflecting as he tried not to appear disingenuous. Other people at the talk dropped it pretty quickly (as far as I recall), as they were all busy supporting and patting one another on the back (a bunch of bullshitters getting money for nothing aren't going to rock the boat talking them to lucre-town<-- salty).
We have two entities competing for the position of "eternal and uncreated."
For one of them, we have vast evidence that it really exists. For the other, we have no evidence at all.

This is why an "eternal and uncreated universe" is a vastly superior answer to the question of ultimate reality than an "eternal and uncreated god."
I'm not following your reasoning. How is one answer superior to the other, without a reliable bit of information to push the scale towards one side or the other?

I can imagine a few scenarios:

If we find that the basic building blocks of the universe are sentient, and remember the beginning, and can tell us their experiences?? We're in luck.

They might say "well, we harnessed the resources that could be recovered from the multiverse by our efforts, and didn't meet any God, although spacetime has always been around [sic]" (a-round, as in cubic)."

Then again, they might say "We are the BorG, we are the unitary consciousness that created all things, including you temporal consciousnesses for exploration of various ideas involving multiple consciousnesses, which caused the original "fall" as many of our number, who were all one, desired the experience of knowing others, which shattered the whole into the many, and humpty dumpty we are not, prepare for the timecube... just joking, yeah, we're what all monotheistic religions have mistakenly called God, what nerds call fundamental particles, etc. etc.."

Maybe God will tell you "you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, and are 10^39 times more focused upon what your fellow beings are doing and talking about than what I'm doing and talking about... I'm the big G EM-fuckers."

Or we don't find any consciousnesses, and have no fucking answers, which means absolutely fucking nothing about whether God created the universe as a perpetual motion machine or the universe was just always there doing universy stuff.
 
Presumably, an atheist like Krauss who thinks God is non-existent can grasp the concept of non-existence in relation to the existence or otherwise of the universe.

Universe = something (exists)
God/heaven/hell/demons/souls/afterlife = nothing (don't exist)
 
Presumably, an atheist like Krauss who thinks God is non-existent can grasp the concept of non-existence in relation to the existence or otherwise of the universe.

Universe = something (exists)
God/heaven/hell/demons/souls/afterlife = nothing (don't exist)

Nah. You gave to distinguish between descriptions of factual reality and words used as shortcuts.

The word "nothing" isnt a word describing something. Its a placeholder for "not one of the things I consider". Thus a vag can contain nothing but still be full of things, just not the type of things you searched for.

The concept of "nothing" that theists such as Lion IRC believs in is a logical contradiction since it requires something for that nothing to be in.

Before the universe there wasnt "nothing. There simply was no "before".
 
Wait what?

Nothing(ness) takes up space? Requires to be some...where?
 
Surely it's the other way around. The universe needs some sort of nothingness into which it can expand.
 
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Space (something) is the opposite of nothing.
 
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