• Welcome to the Internet Infidels Discussion Board.

God strikes dead liberal Christian

Apparently more people prayed for her to go away than prayed for her to recover from her illness.
 
I’m not inclined to joke - she really was a voice of humanity in a sea of christianity. And the suddenness is heartbreaking for her family. And also kind of scary, health-wise.
 
Apparently more people prayed for her to go away than prayed for her to recover from her illness.


This is actually one of the reasons that I despise the “I’ll pray for you” lifestyle. Because it makes a mockery of the real trauma of a death like this. Prayer doesn’t help, it never has and it never will. And so those times when they said it helped makes these times when it doesn’t into a moral judgment rather than just the unfortunate tragedy that it is.
 
I’m not inclined to joke - she really was a voice of humanity in a sea of christianity. And the suddenness is heartbreaking for her family. And also kind of scary, health-wise.

I want to be upset at her treatment here, but I honestly just feel kind of jaded at this point; I expect no less. She was a truly good woman, but these online secularist online communities are a savage bunch, always making foes of friends. What else should we expect than a joke thread when a good person passes? I remember similarly heartless joking when Anthony Flew died, having committed or allegedly committed the same sin of ideological variance.
 
Well, you seem to be counting your chickens before they hatch. 4 people answered, two mocking, two not. And while I can understand the mirroring of the christian condemnation of her as not being in god’s favor turned to condemn the judgmental christians, we would need to notice that still it was only 2 people.
 
I’m not inclined to joke - she really was a voice of humanity in a sea of christianity. And the suddenness is heartbreaking for her family. And also kind of scary, health-wise.

I want to be upset at her treatment here, but I honestly just feel kind of jaded at this point; I expect no less. She was a truly good woman, but these online secularist online communities are a savage bunch, always making foes of friends. What else should we expect than a joke thread when a good person passes? I remember similarly heartless joking when Anthony Flew died, having committed or allegedly committed the same sin of ideological variance.

As Rhea already said, those who made inappropriate remarks here are in the minority. Perhaps they have been so damaged by religion themselves, that they have never gotten over it. Perhaps they lack empathy or don't realize how inappropriate their remarks appear. I honestly don't understand the contempt for Christians, especially for Christians who don't criticize those who hold different beliefs. But, please don't stereotype all of us based on the words of a few. By doing that, you don't appear to be much better than those who you criticize.

But then again, the poor woman is dead so nobody can give her any kind of treatment anymore, so while the remarks of some of my fellow atheists do disappoint me, they aren't treating the woman badly. She's gone. If I did believe in heaven, I think she is the type of Christian who would be there. I even disagree with other atheists about prayer. Prayer doesn't literally save anyone from dying, but it offers a nice placebo affect for lots of people. You might be amazed at how effective placebos can be for many people.

Prayers are just thoughts. When my friends are suffering, I help them if I can, but I also tell them that they are in my thoughts. It helps a lot of people, especially lonely and sick people, to know that someone cares enough about them to keep them in their thoughts. I think the husband of the deceased probably appreciated knowing there were people who cared enough to keep him and his wife in their thoughts. He will suffer from this loss for a long time, but at least he knows he has friends that care about him.

I received a card from a former coworker earlier this week. She did find the need to mention god in the card, but she also lavished praise on me, knowing full well that I'm an atheist. You know what! It made me feel really good to know someone who I haven't seen in over a year is still thinking positive things about me. Considering her own conservative Christian beliefs, she might also be praying for me, and I don't care. It's her good intentions that I appreciate.
 
I’m not inclined to joke - she really was a voice of humanity in a sea of christianity. And the suddenness is heartbreaking for her family. And also kind of scary, health-wise.

I want to be upset at her treatment here, but I honestly just feel kind of jaded at this point; I expect no less. She was a truly good woman, but these online secularist online communities are a savage bunch, always making foes of friends. What else should we expect than a joke thread when a good person passes? I remember similarly heartless joking when Anthony Flew died, having committed or allegedly committed the same sin of ideological variance.

As Rhea already said, those who made inappropriate remarks here are in the minority. Perhaps they have been so damaged by religion themselves, that they have never gotten over it. Perhaps they lack empathy or don't realize how inappropriate their remarks appear. I honestly don't understand the contempt for Christians, especially for Christians who don't criticize those who hold different beliefs. But, please don't stereotype all of us based on the words of a few. By doing that, you don't appear to be much better than those who you criticize.

But then again, the poor woman is dead so nobody can give her any kind of treatment anymore, so while the remarks of some of my fellow atheists do disappoint me, they aren't treating the woman badly. She's gone. If I did believe in heaven, I think she is the type of Christian who would be there. I even disagree with other atheists about prayer. Prayer doesn't literally save anyone from dying, but it offers a nice placebo affect for lots of people. You might be amazed at how effective placebos can be for many people.

Prayers are just thoughts. When my friends are suffering, I help them if I can, but I also tell them that they are in my thoughts. It helps a lot of people, especially lonely and sick people, to know that someone cares enough about them to keep them in their thoughts. I think the husband of the deceased probably appreciated knowing there were people who cared enough to keep him and his wife in their thoughts. He will suffer from this loss for a long time, but at least he knows he has friends that care about him.

I received a card from a former coworker earlier this week. She did find the need to mention god in the card, but she also lavished praise on me, knowing full well that I'm an atheist. You know what! It made me feel really good to know someone who I haven't seen in over a year is still thinking positive things about me. Considering her own conservative Christian beliefs, she might also be praying for me, and I don't care. It's her good intentions that I appreciate.

I did not mean to imply that all atheists were assholes, as you seem to have understood me to mean. But online secularist communities have some predictable tendencies, which have been consistently shared by all three communities I have been a part of over the last fifteen years. So what's the point in getting angry over them, or trying to convince the above people to value human life? It gets old, but I just feel disconnected anymore.

I didn't know Rachel personally, but I know many people who did, and the collective grief in our community at this unexpected and premature passing is overwhelming at the moment. Not just "liberal Christians", either, whatever the hell that means these days. But I wasn't a bit surprised when I saw that this was the only thread on TFT to mention her, and mockingly and with seemingly no awareness of her work, even her work on behalf of atheist rights. And I do not have the energy to try and communicate why we all loved her so much, in a debate subforum, to a hostile crowd that will take it as an argument and try to "prove me wrong" about the value of her contributions. This isn't a tribute thread. It's a dart board, pointed at the face of a dead woman who deserves better.
 
But I wasn't a bit surprised when I saw that this was the only thread on TFT to mention her, and mockingly and with seemingly no awareness of her work, even her work on behalf of atheist rights.

Well carry on with your judging, then.
(Ironically, Rachel Held Evens would have (and did) disagree with your reaction completely.)


You continue to point at the one post, the OP and a single one-line reply, and choose to not give any merit to the others. Moreover, you fail to notice that the OP DID recognize her work, explicitly, and use it's goodness to mock the idea that god would strike such good people down. It mocked not her, but a system of believing that she actually preached against. In other words, it understood her message and supported it.

Sad. She started out an evangelical, but then switched to being a liberal Christian. She condemned evangelical support for Trump. So god killed her. Bastard.

SLD


But... no worries, we get your viewpoint, loud and clear. Talk only about the bad stuff, and say its so predictable and deflating and decline to comment on the good stuff, pretend it didn't happen because it doesn't fit your bias.
We see you, don't worry, don't feel ignored.
 
Imo, Poli, it would have simply been better to have ignored this thread. I had initially ignored it myself, until I saw your post, which made me feel a bit insulted, as it did appear as if your comment was directed at all of us. You said that "secularist online communities are a "savage bunch". Really?


And after thinking about the OP some more, I don't see how it was insulting the woman who died, or her work.

It was a sarcastic attack on the gullible belief in an interventionist god. Imo, it's not the most appropriate time to say that, but it certainly didn't attack the woman, as you implied. It certainly didn't make you look good by referring to us as a savage bunch.

If you felt the need to comment, you could have been more constructive. You may not have meant to sound arrogant, but it sort of came across that way. I'm just so used to ignoring what Christians say about my beliefs.....it rarely bothers me anymore. Maybe you shouldn't let atheists upset you so easily. Boards like this, despite being far from perfect, are the only place that some atheists feel comfortable being openly atheist. How would you like it if you didn't have a nice, Christian community irl to commiserate with, when something tragic happens?
 
Imo, Poli, it would have simply been better to have ignored this thread. I had initially ignored it myself, until I saw your post, which made me feel a bit insulted, as it did appear as if your comment was directed at all of us. You said that "secularist online communities are a "savage bunch". Really?


And after thinking about the OP some more, I don't see how it was insulting the woman who died, or her work.

It was a sarcastic attack on the gullible belief in an interventionist god. Imo, it's not the most appropriate time to say that, but it certainly didn't attack the woman, as you implied. It certainly didn't make you look good by referring to us as a savage bunch.

If you felt the need to comment, you could have been more constructive. You may not have meant to sound arrogant, but it sort of came across that way. I'm just so used to ignoring what Christians say about my beliefs.....it rarely bothers me anymore. Maybe you shouldn't let atheists upset you so easily. Boards like this, despite being far from perfect, are the only place that some atheists feel comfortable being openly atheist. How would you like it if you didn't have a nice, Christian community irl to commiserate with, when something tragic happens?

I think Poli is sometimes given to hyperbole. Are not we all? Let's not be separating the good from the perfect.

A thread such as this can take off in innumerable directions. She was clearly a good person, even the two "mockers" did not insult or disparage her.
 
Imo, Poli, it would have simply been better to have ignored this thread. I had initially ignored it myself, until I saw your post, which made me feel a bit insulted, as it did appear as if your comment was directed at all of us. You said that "secularist online communities are a "savage bunch". Really?


And after thinking about the OP some more, I don't see how it was insulting the woman who died, or her work.

It was a sarcastic attack on the gullible belief in an interventionist god. Imo, it's not the most appropriate time to say that, but it certainly didn't attack the woman, as you implied. It certainly didn't make you look good by referring to us as a savage bunch.

If you felt the need to comment, you could have been more constructive. You may not have meant to sound arrogant, but it sort of came across that way. I'm just so used to ignoring what Christians say about my beliefs.....it rarely bothers me anymore. Maybe you shouldn't let atheists upset you so easily. Boards like this, despite being far from perfect, are the only place that some atheists feel comfortable being openly atheist. How would you like it if you didn't have a nice, Christian community irl to commiserate with, when something tragic happens?

*sigh* You're probably right.

Mama gave me a temper, though. An Irish temper.

Will take your advice and bow out.
 
*sigh* You're probably right.
Apology accepted. :)


Mama gave me a temper, though. An Irish temper.
You think that’s bad?
My grandmother was Sicilian, my grandfather Scottish; I was born under the sign of Taurus in the Year of the Dragon.

But really, I’m quite sanguine. :D
 
Thanks for the apology Poli. I knew you were a decent person, who wouldn't purposely insult us. Sometimes we all say things that we later regret. Afaic, it's all good now.
 
Well, you seem to be counting your chickens before they hatch. 4 people answered, two mocking, two not. And while I can understand the mirroring of the christian condemnation of her as not being in god’s favor turned to condemn the judgmental christians, we would need to notice that still it was only 2 people.

FWIW, I took SLD's opening post to be mocking of fundegicals and their penchant for name dropping who their version of God will punish by death and disaster. I don't see this as mocking Rachel Held, who was evidently a very decent person. Maybe some people don't think it is in good taste to mention a person in death in such a way, but to me that is just differing styles of humor preferences...
 
Apparently more people prayed for her to go away than prayed for her to recover from her illness.


This is actually one of the reasons that I despise the “I’ll pray for you” lifestyle. Because it makes a mockery of the real trauma of a death like this. Prayer doesn’t help, it never has and it never will. And so those times when they said it helped makes these times when it doesn’t into a moral judgment rather than just the unfortunate tragedy that it is.

Because you don't understand the nature of prayer:

Prayer cannot bring water to parched fields, nor mend a broken bridge, nor rebuild a ruined city; but prayer can water an arid soul, mend a broken heart, and rebuild a weakened will.

The primary purpose of prayer is not to make requests. The primary purpose is to praise, to sing, to chant. Because the essence of prayer is a song, and man cannot live without a song.

Prayer may not save us. But prayer may make us worthy of being saved

Abraham Joshua Heschel
 
Apparently more people prayed for her to go away than prayed for her to recover from her illness.


This is actually one of the reasons that I despise the “I’ll pray for you” lifestyle. Because it makes a mockery of the real trauma of a death like this. Prayer doesn’t help, it never has and it never will. And so those times when they said it helped makes these times when it doesn’t into a moral judgment rather than just the unfortunate tragedy that it is.

Because you don't understand the nature of prayer:

Prayer cannot bring water to parched fields, nor mend a broken bridge, nor rebuild a ruined city; but prayer can water an arid soul, mend a broken heart, and rebuild a weakened will.

The primary purpose of prayer is not to make requests. The primary purpose is to praise, to sing, to chant. Because the essence of prayer is a song, and man cannot live without a song.

Prayer may not save us. But prayer may make us worthy of being saved

Abraham Joshua Heschel

:sick-green:
 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/reli...xjZFGxuoI2warnsDy6ElKNgPEL93xsvkDEszJ7s4eKels

Sad. She started out an evangelical, but then switched to being a liberal Christian. She condemned evangelical support for Trump. So god killed her. Bastard.

SLD
I can't seem to open the comments, but i would be completely unsurprised if there were people taking the opportunity to express that exact opinion. That she 'got what was coming.'

I wonder, though, if she really 'switched' to being liberal, or if she just continued forward with what she already thought Jesus was talking about when he said 'love' all those times.
 
Back
Top Bottom