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Goddammit, Microsoft.

For us Linux guys, we have Timeshift which can save and restore OS systems. Windows users have several comparable systems such as Restic. Get a cheap USB SSD, and back up working Windows systems. If a bad update really smokes you, restore a known good system.
 
Regardless of the costs or benefits of Linux vs Windows vs MacOS, it remains insanely dangerous and stupid to run any un-patched computer that is connected to the Internet.

It's like keeping your life savings in a safe, and leaving the door propped open because you keep forgetting the combination - it is a solution to the 'forgetting the combination' problem, for sure; But it's a solution no sane person would expect not to end in an embarrassing disaster.
 
I have heard a lot of bitching about MS updates. One of the best things about the better Linux distros is I can choose to update only security patches. And I can run VMs for online stuff with no credit card numbers et al in that VM. I can encrypt it, and run security organized browsers in a sandbox using firejail or app armor. I can save a clean VM, burn down a VM, and reinstall a clean one.

I can copy my curent daily driver to a VM, and do major updates there. If i fails spectacularly and hoses the VM OS, I did not hose my daily driver.

I can create a bootable USB with my daily driver, and run it from any computer. MS does not want us to do that because piracy. Linux is very flexible. How secure do you want it be?
 
Bilby, I understand the reasoning behind the automatic updates. But I don't see how I can skip just this one and move onto the next, which would most likely require this one to work.
Search on windows selective update.
I don't think that's going to help. I can't know an update will trash my system until I install it.
I am no longer current, bu that is why you need to establish a restore point.

That is the problem, you can't know until you install it.

Windows is a complex asynchronous system. It is very difficult to test it. I am sure MS has a test and release process, but it is impossible to test all possibilities.

Update shoud allow you to go back to tye previous state.

As always back up data before an update....
That's what I did each time.
 
I have heard a lot of bitching about MS updates. One of the best things about the better Linux distros is I can choose to update only security patches. And I can run VMs for online stuff with no credit card numbers et al in that VM. I can encrypt it, and run security organized browsers in a sandbox using firejail or app armor. I can save a clean VM, burn down a VM, and reinstall a clean one.

I can copy my curent daily driver to a VM, and do major updates there. If i fails spectacularly and hoses the VM OS, I did not hose my daily driver.

I can create a bootable USB with my daily driver, and run it from any computer. MS does not want us to do that because piracy. Linux is very flexible. How secure do you want it be?
The update that keeps hosing my system is a security patch.
 
My point is that here, someone asked for "mechanic" powers without being willing to do "mechanic" work. My point, my only point really, was to point out the valley and why it's not such an easy problem, and that the path forward on their side of the divide is "buy new and accept updates."

If it is required to not buy new and not have automatic updates, then it is required to be a mechanic. It takes more skill, and more bullshit non-generalizable skill to hack around in Windows to do shit like that than it takes to learn basic mechanics of a Linux system.
This. Programs rarely permit anything like the level of configuration that would actually be easy to do because it would be too hard on the users. And when they permit it it's usually behind some very poorly described screens because it's intended for a few who already know the system.
 
My point is that here, someone asked for "mechanic" powers without being willing to do "mechanic" work. My point, my only point really, was to point out the valley and why it's not such an easy problem, and that the path forward on their side of the divide is "buy new and accept updates."

If it is required to not buy new and not have automatic updates, then it is required to be a mechanic. It takes more skill, and more bullshit non-generalizable skill to hack around in Windows to do shit like that than it takes to learn basic mechanics of a Linux system.
This. Programs rarely permit anything like the level of configuration that would actually be easy to do because it would be too hard on the users. And when they permit it it's usually behind some very poorly described screens because it's intended for a few who already know the system.
And because everything in there can be really dangerous.

"Why can't I just..." Rips something out and then sticks it in the same place it used to be before we figured out why we really shouldn't...

"...and there! Everything's fine and look how much better..."

*Deafening explosions ensue*

I love you all, but seriously, learn your shit or buy something from this quarter of the decade, probably something from HP with strong support.

Most folks don't need something expensive either. A 300-600 dollar mini-PC will really be enough, and you don't even need a new monitor probably, as long as you can do HDMI.
 
My point is that here, someone asked for "mechanic" powers without being willing to do "mechanic" work. My point, my only point really, was to point out the valley and why it's not such an easy problem, and that the path forward on their side of the divide is "buy new and accept updates."

If it is required to not buy new and not have automatic updates, then it is required to be a mechanic. It takes more skill, and more bullshit non-generalizable skill to hack around in Windows to do shit like that than it takes to learn basic mechanics of a Linux system.
Your original point was this:
If you really want a system which doesn't break when it updates, move to Linux.
I replied by pointing out why nobody takes heed of your recommendation.
And why I say "if you want that feature, be a mechanic. Otherwise..." Is because I don't expect people to "heed" my rhetorical "recommendation" because it's more a statement that their option is most likely going to only be "buy new hardware".

Hence why I point out the valley where, on this side of the valley, high in the peaks, lives The City of Deprecated Hardware.

It's either updates+EoS, mechanics, or the badlands.
Let's do another lap. People don't want to be mechanics. That's why all Linux distributions collectively own only 2.8% of the global desktop operating system market despite being freeware, while Apple's OS has 14.5% and Microsoft's share is 75.3%. To connect a printer or a NAS to either of the latter two does not require any special know-how, nor does it take long to create the connection. After unpacking the gear, connecting the cables half a dozen point and clicks with the mouse will do either job inside two minutes, maybe five. In my experience anyway, and I am fairly sure in the experience of millions of other computer users.

This cannot be done with Linux. Again, in my experience.

Despite numerous, time consuming attempts I never got my networked printer connected to my Linux box even though it took me just a few minutes and a few mouse clicks to have it printing from my Win XP desktop (in 20) and my Win 8 laptop (in 2012).

I had to google for instructions on how to get my Linux Mint 17 box to connect to my WD NAS. Eventually, I found this 17 minute video. After noting down critical numbers, editing one file and creating another from scratch, which took about half an hour, I had success at last. Well partial success. As I mentioned before, not only did the file manager freeze with great frequency, but more than half the time it froze the entire system. I could not even close the manager. The only remaining way out was to reboot the computer via the hardware switch. I put up with this for months. The upgrade to Mint 18 created no problems, but when I upgraded to Mint 19 the connection was lost for good "for security reasons". No solution for this lack was forthcoming on the Mint, Ubuntu or any other Linux themed forum. That's when I decided Linux was wasting my time.

As for "buy new hardware" it does not work for me. I bought the printer in 2008, the laptop in 2012 and I am currently typing on my main workhorse, a 2014 vintage Dell Optiplex I bought at an online auction along with mouse, keyboard and two 23" monitors for $490 delivered in 2019. The laptop is around ten years old, and since Microsoft's free upgrade offer running on Win 10.

I still use a Win XP desktop. (It's not connected to the internet.) I occasionally need it to digitise tapes via a $1000 (second hand price!) JVC HR-S9600 video tape recorder, a $600 (again, second hand price) time base corrector and an ancient hybrid digital/analogue TV dongle. The reason for persisting with the old box (age uncertain because I cobbled it together from several other old computers, but I think the mobo might have been made around 2006) is that much of the filtering and other software I process the tapes' contents with does not function on more recent operating systems. It is very, very slow, but I just leave the box chugging along quietly on its own for hours, sometimes days, while I go about doing other things. Only some of the software is point and click stuff. Some of it is purely command line operated, but then this is not what most people want to do with their computers.
 
I have heard a lot of bitching about MS updates. One of the best things about the better Linux distros is I can choose to update only security patches. And I can run VMs for online stuff with no credit card numbers et al in that VM. I can encrypt it, and run security organized browsers in a sandbox using firejail or app armor. I can save a clean VM, burn down a VM, and reinstall a clean one.

I can copy my curent daily driver to a VM, and do major updates there. If i fails spectacularly and hoses the VM OS, I did not hose my daily driver.

I can create a bootable USB with my daily driver, and run it from any computer. MS does not want us to do that because piracy. Linux is very flexible. How secure do you want it be?
The update that keeps hosing my system is a security patch.


That is pure MS evil. It is my understanding that sometimes MS updates and anti- malware systems do not get along well. Do you halt any such things for updates?
 
That is pure MS evil. It is my understanding that sometimes MS updates and anti- malware systems do not get along well. Do you halt any such things for updates?
I use Windows Defender only. I use the free version of Malwarebytes occasionally but it's not a constantly running system monitor.
 
My point is that here, someone asked for "mechanic" powers without being willing to do "mechanic" work. My point, my only point really, was to point out the valley and why it's not such an easy problem, and that the path forward on their side of the divide is "buy new and accept updates."

If it is required to not buy new and not have automatic updates, then it is required to be a mechanic. It takes more skill, and more bullshit non-generalizable skill to hack around in Windows to do shit like that than it takes to learn basic mechanics of a Linux system.
Your original point was this:
If you really want a system which doesn't break when it updates, move to Linux.
I replied by pointing out why nobody takes heed of your recommendation.
And why I say "if you want that feature, be a mechanic. Otherwise..." Is because I don't expect people to "heed" my rhetorical "recommendation" because it's more a statement that their option is most likely going to only be "buy new hardware".

Hence why I point out the valley where, on this side of the valley, high in the peaks, lives The City of Deprecated Hardware.

It's either updates+EoS, mechanics, or the badlands.
Let's do another lap. People don't want to be mechanics. That's why all Linux distributions collectively own only 2.8% of the global desktop operating system market despite being freeware, while Apple's OS has 14.5% and Microsoft's share is 75.3%. To connect a printer or a NAS to either of the latter two does not require any special know-how, nor does it take long to create the connection. After unpacking the gear, connecting the cables half a dozen point and clicks with the mouse will do either job inside two minutes, maybe five. In my experience anyway, and I am fairly sure in the experience of millions of other computer users.

This cannot be done with Linux. Again, in my experience.

Despite numerous, time consuming attempts I never got my networked printer connected to my Linux box even though it took me just a few minutes and a few mouse clicks to have it printing from my Win XP desktop (in 20) and my Win 8 laptop (in 2012).

I had to google for instructions on how to get my Linux Mint 17 box to connect to my WD NAS. Eventually, I found this 17 minute video. After noting down critical numbers, editing one file and creating another from scratch, which took about half an hour, I had success at last. Well partial success. As I mentioned before, not only did the file manager freeze with great frequency, but more than half the time it froze the entire system. I could not even close the manager. The only remaining way out was to reboot the computer via the hardware switch. I put up with this for months. The upgrade to Mint 18 created no problems, but when I upgraded to Mint 19 the connection was lost for good "for security reasons". No solution for this lack was forthcoming on the Mint, Ubuntu or any other Linux themed forum. That's when I decided Linux was wasting my time.

As for "buy new hardware" it does not work for me. I bought the printer in 2008, the laptop in 2012 and I am currently typing on my main workhorse, a 2014 vintage Dell Optiplex I bought at an online auction along with mouse, keyboard and two 23" monitors for $490 delivered in 2019. The laptop is around ten years old, and since Microsoft's free upgrade offer running on Win 10.

I still use a Win XP desktop. (It's not connected to the internet.) I occasionally need it to digitise tapes via a $1000 (second hand price!) JVC HR-S9600 video tape recorder, a $600 (again, second hand price) time base corrector and an ancient hybrid digital/analogue TV dongle. The reason for persisting with the old box (age uncertain because I cobbled it together from several other old computers, but I think the mobo might have been made around 2006) is that much of the filtering and other software I process the tapes' contents with does not function on more recent operating systems. It is very, very slow, but I just leave the box chugging along quietly on its own for hours, sometimes days, while I go about doing other things. Only some of the software is point and click stuff. Some of it is purely command line operated, but then this is not what most people want to do with their computers.
And you are a mechanic. Clearly. And accessing the "for mechanics" features of windows that are generally well hidden from the quivering masses.

You're making my point for me here:
Updates+EoS;
Mechanics;
Badlands;

Pick one.

Mechanics are easiest in Linux and all the skills generalize to windows. Mechanics is hard in windows, and few of the skills generalize to Linux.
 
I keep mo personal information on my computer or phones. Don't care if I get hacked, I'll just reinstall Windows.
 
Mechanics are easiest in Linux and all the skills generalize to windows. Mechanics is hard in windows, and few of the skills generalize to Linux.
That explains why Microsoft owns 75.3% of the global desktop operating system market despite consumers having to pay for its OS while all Linux distributions collectively own only 2.8%, right despite them being available at no cost, right? Right?

Jarhyn, Microsoft and Apple operating systems are plug and play when it comes to attaching peripherals. No Linux OS is. Why are you ignoring that? This is especially disappointing of you since I gave you two examples of the troubles I had in that regard with Linux Mint while connecting my printer and my NAS to MS XP, Win 8, Win 8.1 and Win 10 were simple point and click procedures which took just a few minutes and involved no mechanic's skills. That is what consumers want. And that is why they buy MS OSs while ignoring the availability of free Linux ones.

As for me, I don't mind being a mechanic when needed. My first computer ran on MS DOS 3.3. It did not even come with a mouse. There was no need for it because every program on it functioned via keyboard. I wrote a few batch files and some small programs in BASIC to perform particular tasks, and after I acquired a copy of a DOS version of Lotus's spreadsheet I wrote macro scripts to automate some of my sheets. I was a mechanic when I needed to be one.

What I do mind is to get my fingers covered in engine oil when there is no need to mess with the innards of engines. Especially so when Linux fails me in my attempt to get a fucking printer working and when it throws the spanner in the works after I had partial success getting Linux Mint to work with files on my NAS. Fuck Linux for as long as it has issues with stuff that the various MS Windows versions have no problems with.
 
Microsoft and Apple operating systems are plug and play when it comes to attaching peripherals.
Yes they are. I'm not ignoring that. That concern is on the "not mechanic" side of the world.

When you want to use OLD peripherals, often the answer on current versions of windows is "you can't", or more "be a mechanic", and both Apple and Windows are moving towards mechanic-unfriendliness.

As it is, this "plug and play" convenience is my #1 cause for getting calls from family, Including my husband, about things not working: the default "plug and play" attachment is explicitly problematic, and the mechanic call is necessary anyway.

It would have saved everyone time if they had just gone to a website, downloaded the driver software, and installed it like the top non-ad Google result explains.
 
Linux have updates too. And I don't remember any update which did anything bad, let alone brick it.
 
My first computer ran on MS DOS 3.3.
3.1 here.
The first one I banged on was in 6th grade. An Amiga, maybe?

The first one that was "mine", however, was MS DOS 3.1 with a graphical user frontend that, eventually, allowed mouse input.
My first IBM PC ran PC-DOS 1.0. When PC-DOS 1.1 came out, I ran IBM's disassembler on both OS'es to see what the differences were.

But I'd been programming for almost two decades before PC-DOS 1.0. My first machine was an IBM 1620 — my high school math teacher was a grad student at the State College and gave us his "password" — and I once programmed a sort on it in absolute machine code. (By "absolute" I mean I sat at the keypunch and prepared an object deck using the Multiple-Punch key. Still need proof I'm autistic? :cool: )
 
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