Godwin Says...

[Loren Pechtel]

I went through a very similar experience with my now ex-wife, who was from Nayarit, Mexico.

The process was L O N G, thoroughly mired in red-tape, and embarrassing interviews.

One time we received a letter in the mail telling us that we had to arrive at date X for some such thing I don't even remember, an interview or some more paperwork, and in this letter was a warning that if we did not show up it would either greatly slow down the whole process or stop it altogether.

The date we were supposed to arrive in Phoenix for this appointment had already passed by the time we got the letter.

I may be misremembering (my memory is shot) but I believe we had to pay to get the appointment rescheduled.

Never got that particular stupidity but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if they did something like that.

I didn't find the interviews embarrassing, though. The first bitch didn't really ask us much of anything. The only real interview we had was their fraud interview and after that they seemed much more reasonable--we must have done well despite their mistakes. (I was asked "what does she usually wear at night", she was asked "what did you wear last night". Oops--we stayed over at my parents house that night and wore more than usual. There was another where we were asked slightly different versions of a question that changed the answer but it's eluding me at present. There was also "What brand of TV do you have". I told them her answer was going to be "I don't know" but they wouldn't believe me. The TV predated our relationship, the brand was written in pretty small letters, without her glasses she would have to bend in close to read it, with her glasses she wouldn't be able to read it at all {to get it clear she would be far enough away it was too small for her to read} and she didn't know US brands at the time, she probably wouldn't have recognized it for a brand had by some chance she read it. Those are only the ones we caught in talking about it afterwards, there might have been more.)

 

[phands]

Today, I went through the Green Card medical - another scam to make potential immigrants pay through the nose...or to put them off, or to get them in hock to a sponsor.

That the medical isn't actually a medical exam at all was the first eye-opener. It's a check for TB, Syphilis and Gonorrhea and vaccinations. The tests are just a simple blood sample, and take 2 days to process. Basic cost - $280.....but then...the gouge happens. If you don't have a certification of vaccinations (BGC, MMR DPT) and a recent tetanus shot, you need to get them ASAP. Also, the basic TB skin test, they say, has a large false-positive rate, so you're better going for the definitive blood test to save time and repeat visits...

So...after 2 hours of mostly waiting, and some blood-taking, all of which could have been done by a nurse, I ended up paying $580. This should cover it, but any retests cost extra. It lasts for a year, after which the cost has to be borne again....and a lot of immigrant cases take more than a year.

While I'm a fairly well paid company CTO, and can stand this, to many immigrants this is a fortune, and they can't afford it or have to get beholden to a sponsor.

All told, by the time we get through all this, it will cost well north of $10k. Yet another big barrier for poorer people.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Today, I went through the Green Card medical - another scam to make potential immigrants pay through the nose...or to put them off, or to get them in hock to a sponsor.

That the medical isn't actually a medical exam at all was the first eye-opener. It's a check for TB, Syphilis and Gonorrhea and vaccinations. The tests are just a simple blood sample, and take 2 days to process. Basic cost - $280.....but then...the gouge happens. If you don't have a certification of vaccinations (BGC, MMR DPT) and a recent tetanus shot, you need to get them ASAP. Also, the basic TB skin test, they say, has a large false-positive rate, so you're better going for the definitive blood test to save time and repeat visits...

So...after 2 hours of mostly waiting, and some blood-taking, all of which could have been done by a nurse, I ended up paying $580. This should cover it, but any retests cost extra. It lasts for a year, after which the cost has to be borne again....and a lot of immigrant cases take more than a year.

While I'm a fairly well paid company CTO, and can stand this, to many immigrants this is a fortune, and they can't afford it or have to get beholden to a sponsor.

All told, by the time we get through all this, it will cost well north of $10k. Yet another big barrier for poorer people.

I don't understand the concern about a sponsor. Immigrating to the US is expensive however you do it. And that exam is a test for various communicable diseases and checking if you're up to date on vaccinations against communicable diseases. What's the problem?

 

[phands]

Hi Loren,

The concern is simply that if the immigrant can't afford it, they have to have a US-resident sponsor guarantee the costs, which puts financial strain on the sponsor and debt on the immigrant. To many families, that's a lot of money.

That exam is a test for only 3 diseases...two of those are sexually transmitted, and for which there is no vaccine (syphilis and gonorrhea), which says a lot about the prurient concerns of the USA, as they're not mass-spreadable easily. The third is TB, for which there is a vaccine (BCG), but is not really a big concern where there is herd immunity. Hardly a comprehensive list.

Even for MMR, they only look to see if you have a scar on your shoulder, rather than a proof of vaccination, and a scar can come from sources other than a vaccination.

As I observe, the whole thing is a scam to make money and deter the poor. It has nothing to do with health.

 

[WAB]

By and large, a main problem with the anti-illegal immigration people is a simple misunderstanding of how difficult it is to emigrate legally. It's not as if all these desperate people are saying, "Ah, well, I could just sign a paper or two and get in legally? Fuck it, I'll just do it illegally, because I prefer to do it that way..."

Coming across the border has great hazards for Mexican people (and others south of the border). There are people who call themselves coyotes, who are usually Mexicans who help illegals come over. But these are not a charity group. Very often they demand money, and sexual favors, for their services. Even without the anxiety over the coyotes, there are often miles of desert to cross, authorities to avoid, and a general sense of uncertainty and great fear.

I will say more:

I was married to a Mexican woman for ten years. I also worked in a hospital, assisted living facilities, Nursing Homes and restaurants, where there are a great many Mexican workers and other Hispanics. If I wrack my head, I can not think of a single lazy Mexican (or other Hispanic person, for that matter). These are people with a very strong work ethic, and they do not have that American notion that certain types of work are beneath them, nor do they define and judge people by what they do for a living. A dishwasher is just as respected by his/her friends and family as a foreman in a construction company. Many Mexicans and other Hispanics don't bat an eye at the prospect of having two or more jobs.

In my experience (which I grant is subjective and local), the American people have precious little to worry about when it comes to Hispanic immigrants.

I also wonder how many undocumented Hispanics Trump has working for him in his various casinos and towers? Just look at laundry, housekeeping, and foodservices alone, and I'd be willing to bet up to three quarters of those workers are Hispanic (or some other minority). Most of my fellow white folks (meaning ones that I know or have known) look down their noses at those kind of jobs, and will not take them unless they are desperate.

 

[ZiprHead]

By and large, a main problem with the anti-illegal immigration people is a simple misunderstanding of how difficult it is to emigrate legally. It's not as if all these desperate people are saying, "Ah, well, I could just sign a paper or two and get in legally? Fuck it, I'll just do it illegally, because I prefer to do it that way..."

Coming across the border has great hazards for Mexican people (and others south of the border). There are people who call themselves coyotes, who are usually Mexicans who help illegals come over. But these are not a charity group. Very often they demand money, and sexual favors, for their services. Even without the anxiety over the coyotes, there are often miles of desert to cross, authorities to avoid, and a general sense of uncertainty and great fear.

I will say more:

I was married to a Mexican woman for ten years. I also worked in a hospital, assisted living facilities, Nursing Homes and restaurants, where there are a great many Mexican workers and other Hispanics. If I wrack my head, I can not think of a single lazy Mexican (or other Hispanic person, for that matter). These are people with a very strong work ethic, and they do not have that American notion that certain types of work are beneath them, nor do they define and judge people by what they do for a living. A dishwasher is just as respected by his/her friends and family as a foreman in a construction company. Many Mexicans and other Hispanics don't bat an eye at the prospect of having two or more jobs.

In my experience (which I grant is subjective and local), the American people have precious little to worry about when it comes to Hispanic immigrants.

I also wonder how many undocumented Hispanics Trump has working for him in his various casinos and towers? Just look at laundry, housekeeping, and foodservices alone, and I'd be willing to bet up to three quarters of those workers are Hispanic (or some other minority). Most of my fellow white folks (meaning ones that I know or have known) look down their noses at those kind of jobs, and will not take them unless they are desperate.

But... but... but... MS13! MS13!

 

[WAB]

By and large, a main problem with the anti-illegal immigration people is a simple misunderstanding of how difficult it is to emigrate legally. It's not as if all these desperate people are saying, "Ah, well, I could just sign a paper or two and get in legally? Fuck it, I'll just do it illegally, because I prefer to do it that way..."

Coming across the border has great hazards for Mexican people (and others south of the border). There are people who call themselves coyotes, who are usually Mexicans who help illegals come over. But these are not a charity group. Very often they demand money, and sexual favors, for their services. Even without the anxiety over the coyotes, there are often miles of desert to cross, authorities to avoid, and a general sense of uncertainty and great fear.

I will say more:

I was married to a Mexican woman for ten years. I also worked in a hospital, assisted living facilities, Nursing Homes and restaurants, where there are a great many Mexican workers and other Hispanics. If I wrack my head, I can not think of a single lazy Mexican (or other Hispanic person, for that matter). These are people with a very strong work ethic, and they do not have that American notion that certain types of work are beneath them, nor do they define and judge people by what they do for a living. A dishwasher is just as respected by his/her friends and family as a foreman in a construction company. Many Mexicans and other Hispanics don't bat an eye at the prospect of having two or more jobs.

In my experience (which I grant is subjective and local), the American people have precious little to worry about when it comes to Hispanic immigrants.

I also wonder how many undocumented Hispanics Trump has working for him in his various casinos and towers? Just look at laundry, housekeeping, and foodservices alone, and I'd be willing to bet up to three quarters of those workers are Hispanic (or some other minority). Most of my fellow white folks (meaning ones that I know or have known) look down their noses at those kind of jobs, and will not take them unless they are desperate.

But... but... but... MS13! MS13!

Well. We have heavy metal to blame for those guys...

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Hi Loren,

The concern is simply that if the immigrant can't afford it, they have to have a US-resident sponsor guarantee the costs, which puts financial strain on the sponsor and debt on the immigrant. To many families, that's a lot of money.

That exam is a test for only 3 diseases...two of those are sexually transmitted, and for which there is no vaccine (syphilis and gonorrhea), which says a lot about the prurient concerns of the USA, as they're not mass-spreadable easily. The third is TB, for which there is a vaccine (BCG), but is not really a big concern where there is herd immunity. Hardly a comprehensive list.

Even for MMR, they only look to see if you have a scar on your shoulder, rather than a proof of vaccination, and a scar can come from sources other than a vaccination.

As I observe, the whole thing is a scam to make money and deter the poor. It has nothing to do with health.

Five hundred dollars is a fairly small part of the total cost of sponsoring someone.

And the list of diseases they are checking for are the ones that have a common, have a reasonable chance of infecting others and that stick around long enough to be an issue. (Most common infectious diseases will have cleared themselves up long before your application. Thus there's no point in checking for them.)

 

[Tristan Scott]

I agree with Hitler comparisons to Trump. As was pointed out in a cite upthread the only book Trump is known to have read was a book on Hitler speeches. It seems obvious now that Trump used the same formula as Hitler to come to power. He has used the prejudices of a major segment of the American population to get himself elected. Now, just as Hitler did he needs to follow through to consolidate his power. Like Hitler he is doing this through appointments and through constantly rallying his base, continuing his xenophobic themes and practices. There is also a good comparison of Trump's opposition to Hitler's as was also pointed out in Koyaanisqatsi's cite upthread.
It's essential that Trump's power be weakened by the midterm elections, but it really seems that his opposition is disorganized and un-focused, with their main focus being on their own agendas instead of focusing entirely on taking away Trump's congress.

I see that happening in 2020 also.