• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

Good news in the pronoun wars: $400k payout for professor

Alright, so to be clear, I happen to be transgender, but I do not appreciate views I do not have being projected on me, which many people tend to do in ways that annoy me.
Why don't you appreciate it? Is it because it's you that they're projecting those views onto? Would you appreciate it just fine if they were projecting views onto somebody else? Would you appreciate it just fine if you were projecting views onto somebody else? How do you feel about Confucius's dictum, "Do not impose on others what you do not wish for yourself."?

And why does it annoy you? Suppose someone projects on you a view you don't have because you had kept your lack of that view to yourself and had talked as though you had the view. Does it annoy you when people rely on empirical evidence and don't assume they need to wait for you to tell them what they're supposed to think before they judge a truth claim?
 
With deepest sympathy for the undeserved difficulties fate has saddled you with, and in the spirit of the helpfulness that you are very politely reaching out for, here is some constructive advice on social graces, which if you take to heart may help to prevent some of these awkward social situations in the future: try to cultivate in yourself an attitude of innocent-until-proven-guilty or at least of agnosticism about other people's motivations. Try to remember that you are fallible too, and when someone upsets you, his or her reason for having done it may be something other than the first and most vile motive that occurs to you. Try to think before you speak, and if what you're about to say is that the person acted for such-and-such a reason, then consider carefully whether you have solid grounds for believing that what you're about to say about that person is really true. Because if you choose to go ahead and speak about another person with reckless disregard for the truth, and your wild guess happens to be wrong, then what comes to you next will be well-deserved even if what came before was not.
The only trouble here is that transpeople are asking to be called or referenced to in a different way... and some people are reacting quite angrily to it. And the people getting upset over it... don't even know the transgendered people.
Who are you talking about?

So when you ask people to err on the side of caution, about whether another has made a faux pas instead of being an asshole,
False dilemma fallacy.

that is great advice... and pretty much off-topic as we are talking about assholes who can't handle change over people they don't even know.
Who you call "we", Kemosabe? I was on topic; I wasn't talking about what you say "we" are talking about, so why are you lecturing me as though what you say has anything to do with what I wrote? I didn't say a word about anybody who reacted quite angrily to somebody asking him to call or reference that person in a different way.

The ultimate irony here is that assholes are demanding the right to observing strict adherence to a particular chromosome. I can call them what they are. Yet, have a problem being called an asshole.
Your accusations assume facts not in evidence. There's a word for people who trump up baseless charges.
 
"Just the place for a Snark! I have said it thrice: What I tell you three times is true."

Woke gender ideology in a nutshell.
I have never in my life had anything to do with any kind of "woke" ideology.
You are projecting. Other people besides you talk about gender, and some of them are woke ideologues, and their views are the reason Mr. Meriwether's employers chose to violate his civil rights
I do not give a shit. This lunatic anti-woke crusade has already led to aggression against me, at my place of work, and I have been put into a position where I have to talk to a counselor in order to try to figure out what to do. I have a naturally mercurial temperament, and my alternative to seeing a therapist, at this point, is to put the dude into a choke-hold. When your bullshit and your rhetoric leads to people at my place of work literally threatening me, I am not going to blame that guy because he is uneducated. When the dude got fired, I literally asked my managers to bring him back because I did not want a father to lose his job on my account. I am have gone out of my way to continue sharing a workplace with a man that has threatened me because I am trying very hard to be a decent human being.

Here is the kind of person I really am: a horse once kicked me in the elbow, leaving a bloody gash and my arm unable to go through its full range of motion due to disrupted nerves. I stood up, and I immediately apologized to the horse for startling him. That is the kind of person that I choose to be, not just toward animals but toward my fellow human beings. This is what I am trying to be in spite of the fact that I am also the kind of person that is capable of explosive violence and of dark, brooding rage. I choose peace and reconciliation.

Something I need to tell you forcefully, though, is that an "anti-woke" ideology is not going to solve any problem, but it is creating a new one that is worse than the original. It is going to bring danger and violence into the lives of people that otherwise would have stuck their necks out to help you, and in the long-run, it will only cause more mayhem in our society.

and find themselves on the losing end of a lawsuit, and I get to talk about such people whether you feel you're of their number or not; plus, Bronzeage repeated his post three times and to expect me to just leave that lying there is to demand superhuman forbearance. When I talk about you, you'll know it.

I have provided more than adequate evidence that the fact that I am transgender is based on my neurology.
Certainly -- whether someone likes strawberries is based on neurology.

Suppose for the sake of discussion that it's possible to put a person who self-diagnoses as transman in an MRI machine and measure whether the above person has a brain neurologically closer to the average male brain or to the average female brain, and thereby confirm or refute t.a.'s self-diagnosis. Suppose some Shawnee State professor had agreed to call some student she believed to be female "Sir" on condition that said student bring her a doctor's note confirming that the student had had a brain scan done and had been found to have a male-like brain. Do you think this compromise would have satisfied the Shawnee State administrators' objections to their professor's unwillingness to take on faith a truth claim that had been offered without empirical evidence, or would they have ordered her to say "Sir" with or without a doctor's note, and reprimanded her for it anyway when she declined?

What I see you doing, by belaboring this story, is fanning the flames of strife.

We transgender people are not born with comprehensive knowledge about how to discuss our gender or our concomitant needs. In some cases, when we start the process of seeking gender-affirmation, we are even more confused about how to move forward than the cis-gender people around us. I am actually an advocate of transgender people seeking counseling services, so they can learn how to navigate these sorts of complex situations. My recent situation with a coworker has only driven me to internalize this belief and to apply it to my own life.

Most of the time, I get along with people alright, where my gender is concerned. Most people understand me when I say that it helps my own self-esteem if I assert my own feelings, in regard to my gender, whenever someone else seems to demonstrate a lack of knowledge about those feelings. It is not a demand upon them or an order or a condemnation, but it is an expression of self-assertiveness that helps me feel more confident in general, not just about my gender.

What I want to talk to my therapist about is how to deescalate situations where I have been misunderstood, so I can avoid getting at cross-purposes with anyone in the future.

Unfortunately, that person I got at cross-purposes with had formed the belief that my attempts to be self-assertive about my gender meant that I was going to threaten his job or expose him to unwanted censure or embarrassment, and whenever these kinds of stories make rounds in social media, people like him become afraid that people like me are a threat to him.

This fear does nothing to protect them at all, but it creates situations where they actually could lose their jobs as a consequence of acting out, based on that fear. Again, that guy would still be out-of-work if I had not gone out of my way to firmly reassure my managers that I was still willing to have him in the same workplace, even though he had threatened me.

Current research suggests that the affirmation of transgender people's gender identity significantly increases their chances of survival. As a consequence, it has become a matter of social protocol, in many places, to do so.
Okay, now I'm talking about you. I've seen you in action enough times to know that you are very likely to ignore the actual meaning of the words I'm about to say and will probably accuse me of saying or meaning something completely different. So I'm cautioning you not to do that.

I do not believe your claim that the increased chances of survival you credit for the social protocol change are what actually caused the social protocol to change. I think the social protocol changed for a different reason and would have changed the same way whether it increased survival chances or not. When you say the one was "As a consequence of" the other, you're making a claim of causality, a truth claim that you have not given empirical evidence for.

Let me be very clear here. I am not disputing your claim that affirmation of transgender people's gender identity reduces suicide rates, or challenging you to provide evidence for that claim. It's your claim about what caused the social protocol change that I'm calling into question.

For me, it sure is.

I was actually reluctant to pursue gender-affirmation before I was absolutely sure that there was a neurological basis for it, and I needed a tremendous amount of reassurance that it could make my life better. Curiously enough, I am actually intensely risk-averse, so I really prefer to go into depth to explore my options and my alternatives before I make a decision that is going to stick. While I might be at risk of "paralysis of analysis" because of that, the same risk-averse nature has also made it unlikely that I will ever kill myself for any reason whatsoever. For me, that is a major "chicken and egg" question. Sometimes, I wonder if past experiences that have caused me to ponder killing myself have led me, self-protectively, to form a risk-averse habit of thought, or was being naturally risk-averse the reason why I never actually did it? In any case, by the time I went to pursue gender-affirming care, I knew almost as much about it as my doctor did (let me flatter myself), and she specializes in it.

When I talk to others about my preferred pronouns and my preferred name, I am open with them about my purpose. I am also open with them about the fact that I am new to this (I was, anyway), and as a consequence, I am still learning how to talk about this aspect of my life. I may start out as awkward, but I hope that I will develop grace in time. I present myself as someone that is still learning how to take better care of her health.

At my place of work, at least, I hope that others around me will see that I actually have become happier and more socially outgoing. I hope that they will notice that I make eye-contact more often, communicate better, have a more interesting self-presentation, and take a more active interest in helping to make their jobs easier. I hope that they will see a general improvement in my character. I am determined to make it worth their while to try to get me.

I see an inherent connection between improving my own mental health and giving my coworkers a clear payoff as a consequence. I want them to feel good about me feeling good.

Unfortunately, I now have a coworker that is afraid of losing his job because of me, and I am mortified that anyone would ever feel afraid of me. I do not like for other people to be afraid of me. It upsets me deeply. It breaks my heart. It makes me seem to be a very different kind of person than the kind of person that I am trying to be.

If I can be said to have any ideology, then that ideology is the notion that empirical evidence is necessary for any truth claim about any topic whatsoever. To imply otherwise, regarding my ideology, simply makes you objectively wrong.
Okay, now I'm not talking about you any more. Now I'm talking about me. I made no implication about your ideology. To imply otherwise regarding what I implied is objectively wrong.

The fact that I am a dragon has no empirical evidence whatsoever, though. You can take my word for it or not. "Dragon" is a metaphor.
Okay, now I'm talking about you again. Given your explanation upthread of what you're using "dragon" as a metaphor for, I don't need to take your word for it. You have presented a cornucopia of empirical evidence that you are a dragon.

The visualization is actually highly effective at improving my communication with others. If you want to, you can try using that visualization next time you reply to me.

Remember, though: dragons are not animals. We are a different type of sapient. We are particularly clever in some ways and curiously limited in others. When we are in speaking in our area of strength, though, then we are worth listening to. If you meet enough of us, then I think you will agree.

And I am really tired of hearing the term "woke." It constitutes projecting beliefs onto people that they have not espoused at all.
Well, when you go into a forum with "infidels" in its name, you're running the risk that somebody out there will have imagined that means he's allowed to post even if he doesn't accept your opinions on faith. If you can point out anybody I've called "woke" who didn't espouse woke beliefs, knock yourself out.

I do not ask you for faith, merely to read my citations.


Now, the reason why some transgender people get angry when you ask for proof is that transgender people come in all personality types and in every possible level of intelligence. Many of them, if you start talking about white matter volumes, gray matter volumes, and fractional anisotrophy, will just think you are trying to imply that they have some kind of a disease. They do not act this way because they are transgender, but they act this way because they are human beings. Human beings, in general, can be seriously frustrating. It is very useful to learn how to be patient with them and to acknowledge their limitations as a known quantity. Most people, including most transgender people, are a little bit intimidated by heavy scientific talk, and some of them are grossed out by scientific talk about the squishy parts.

I am unusual because I can actually furnish you with a very comprehensive understanding of what makes me different and why there is not a damn thing that I can do about that difference. I am the transgender woman that, metaphorically speaking, will gleefully step into an ex-ray and let you take a look at my bones with no self-consciousness whatsoever. I am an exhibitionist in the sense that I want you to see all of the little parts and how they work. For me, this is fun. I am enthusiastic to explain this stuff to you. This stuff excites me. I am a nerdy version of a shameless hussy.

Burke, Manzouri, and Savic did a wonderful job with that report. I highly recommend it as reading material.

Furthermore, the American Academy of Pediatrics did a fantastic job of explaining why it is a sound policy to support transgender youth. Their report on this topic is very well put together. It is very easy to read. It clearly explains why it is so necessary, especially for young transgender people, to receive support and affirmation. They give you documented evidence for their views. The format is easy to follow.

 
"Just the place for a Snark! I have said it thrice: What I tell you three times is true."

Woke gender ideology in a nutshell.
I have never in my life had anything to do with any kind of "woke" ideology.
You are projecting. Other people besides you talk about gender, and some of them are woke ideologues, and their views are the reason Mr. Meriwether's employers chose to violate his civil rights
I do not give a <expletive deleted>
I understand that. You accused me of implying you're a woke ideologue, so I let you know it wasn't you I was talking about, and you do not care. You are a dragon, and one of the things dragons are legendary for is not giving a rat's ass whether they are treating people unjustly. You have made a number of false baseless accusations against other posters including me, and when I point it out, you show not the slightest interest. Maybe that's a reaction to all the hurt you've experienced, but if you ever decide to work on becoming less dragon-like it will probably help you become a happier person.

This lunatic anti-woke crusade has already led to aggression against me, at my place of work, and I have been put into a position where I have to talk to a counselor in order to try to figure out what to do. I have a naturally mercurial temperament, and my alternative to seeing a therapist, at this point, is to put the dude into a choke-hold. When your bull<expletive deleted> and your rhetoric leads to people at my place of work literally threatening me, I am not going to blame that guy because he is uneducated.
You have no evidence that it was my rhetoric that led to you being threatened. I haven't advocated violence against trans people or written anything implying I would condone it; I haven't even criticized anyone for asking to be called "she". You have no rational basis for blaming me for what happened to you. But why would you care whether what you say about me is true? You're a dragon.

When the dude got fired, I literally asked my managers to bring him back because I did not want a father to lose his job on my account. I am have gone out of my way to continue sharing a workplace with a man that has threatened me because I am trying very hard to be a decent human being.

Here is the kind of person I really am: a horse once kicked me in the elbow, leaving a bloody gash and my arm unable to go through its full range of motion due to disrupted nerves. I stood up, and I immediately apologized to the horse for startling him. That is the kind of person that I choose to be, not just toward animals but toward my fellow human beings. This is what I am trying to be in spite of the fact that I am also the kind of person that is capable of explosive violence and of dark, brooding rage. I choose peace and reconciliation.
Do you think telling me what a virtuous person you are is going to make me forget the times you've treated me unfairly and the times I've seen you treat others unfairly?

Something I need to tell you forcefully, though, is that an "anti-woke" ideology is not going to solve any problem, but it is creating a new one that is worse than the original. It is going to bring danger and violence into the lives of people that otherwise would have stuck their necks out to help you, and in the long-run, it will only cause more mayhem in our society.
If you're arguing that when people are being leaned on by a pushy religion they ought to just submit and shouldn't push back, you're not really selling the case. Back when people pointed out that the Catholic Church was ruled by corrupt sellers of indulgences and church offices, and that there was no reason to think the Pope was infallible, and that church doctrine had grown very remote from Jesus' original message, and that having the power to burn unbelievers for heresy doesn't prove one's opinions are correct, those people's protests caused a great deal of mayhem in their society, and brought danger and violence into the lives of a lot of people, and did not solve anything the partisans for Catholicism saw as a problem. Should western civilization on that account have simply made a collective social choice to remain under the thumb of the Church for the foreseeable future?
 
It is a bit of a mystery why some people in the civilian world want to belittle and intimidate others by using inappropriate pronouns.
It is a bit of a mystery why you think people 'in the civilian world' want to do that. You are begging the question.
Do you know why some people express hostility about using the pronoun a particular person prefers?
Yes: because it is trying to compel somebody's speech, and, in some cases, forcing them to say things they do not believe.

Is there some altruistic motive behind this kind of behavior?
It depends on what you mean by "altruism". For example, when black people fought for civil rights in America in the 1960s, they surely stood to gain personally, but other people also stood to gain.
"Trying to compel somebody's speech" is an interesting take on it. If a person chooses to demonstrate antisocial behavior,, or as I said in an earlier post, be an insufferable prick, they can expect to have a social stigma put upon them. It's really no different than when Black people fought for the civil rights and racists became to be seen as insufferable pricks.

Perhaps in a generation those who insist that misprouning people is an act of defying tyranny will be seen in the same light as those who once refused to concede that Cassius Clay is now known as Mohammed Ali. It's pretty much the same thing.
You can change your name. You can't change your sex.
A person with a vulva changes their name to John Robert and that's okay, but you draw the line at him and his. Got it.
Of course it's okay. People have changed their names throughout history. I used to live next door to a man who changed his last name to 'Death'.

You can't change your sex. I'm sorry if I draw the line at 'reality'.
 
"Just the place for a Snark! I have said it thrice: What I tell you three times is true."

Woke gender ideology in a nutshell.
I have never in my life had anything to do with any kind of "woke" ideology.
You are projecting. Other people besides you talk about gender, and some of them are woke ideologues, and their views are the reason Mr. Meriwether's employers chose to violate his civil rights
I do not give a <expletive deleted>
I understand that. You accused me of implying you're a woke ideologue, so I let you know it wasn't you I was talking about, and you do not care.

I am actually rather fed up with anti-wokeists, in general. The more I see of them, the more they look like food.

You are a dragon, and one of the things dragons are legendary for is not giving a rat's ass whether they are treating people unjustly.

We actually do have a sense of justice, even though it is a peculiar one.

You have made a number of false baseless accusations against other posters including me, and when I point it out, you show not the slightest interest.

Feel free to take this as an opportunity to clarify.


This lunatic anti-woke crusade has already led to aggression against me, at my place of work, and I have been put into a position where I have to talk to a counselor in order to try to figure out what to do. I have a naturally mercurial temperament, and my alternative to seeing a therapist, at this point, is to put the dude into a choke-hold. When your bull<expletive deleted> and your rhetoric leads to people at my place of work literally threatening me, I am not going to blame that guy because he is uneducated.
You have no evidence that it was my rhetoric that led to you being threatened. I haven't advocated violence against trans people or written anything implying I would condone it; I haven't even criticized anyone for asking to be called "she". You have no rational basis for blaming me for what happened to you.

It was because of anti-wokeist rhetoric that that man was afraid of me. Whenever these stories make rounds in the social media, people like that man become certain that his transgender coworker only exists in order to threaten their jobs, and naturally, they act out violently. That man never really wanted a fight, but the hysterical rhetoric that has been transmitted through the social media has led to that clod getting convinced that I exist for no purpose in the world except to deprive him of his livelihood.

I was once surrounded by a gang of youth in the street and beaten, but who was it that told those young men that I was a pervert that was intent on sexually molesting their baby brothers? They had to have gotten that idea from somewhere. In the long-run, I never really resented those youths, but I went out looking for the lying bastard that told them that nonsense. They did not know it wasn't true because they were ignorant. The person that fed them that rubbish knew better, but the motherfucker wanted to push an agenda. If I got hurt because of it, he didn't give a fuck. If one of those boys had gotten hurt because of it, he still didn't give a fuck.

My coworker very nearly lost his job because he had become certain that I only existed in order to cause him pain. His transphobia, which really was driven by fear, nearly cost him his job. There are people that depend on that man. He works double-shifts in order to feed and clothe them. He is one of many otherwise well-meaning people that very nearly got stampeded to his own destruction.

The person that spreads fear is to blame, not the desperately overworked, paranoid clod that acts on that fear.

Something I need to tell you forcefully, though, is that an "anti-woke" ideology is not going to solve any problem, but it is creating a new one that is worse than the original. It is going to bring danger and violence into the lives of people that otherwise would have stuck their necks out to help you, and in the long-run, it will only cause more mayhem in our society.
If you're arguing that when people are being leaned on by a pushy religion they ought to just submit and shouldn't push back, you're not really selling the case. Back when people pointed out that the Catholic Church was ruled by corrupt sellers of indulgences and church offices, and that there was no reason to think the Pope was infallible, and that church doctrine had grown very remote from Jesus' original message, and that having the power to burn unbelievers for heresy doesn't prove one's opinions are correct, those people's protests caused a great deal of mayhem in their society, and brought danger and violence into the lives of a lot of people, and did not solve anything the partisans for Catholicism saw as a problem. Should western civilization on that account have simply made a collective social choice to remain under the thumb of the Church for the foreseeable future?

I have cited empirical evidence for my views. Let me post them again.


^This one by Burke, Manzouri, and Savic is very easy to follow. It is well organized. Even a complete fool can feel like a real live neuroscientist. They have done good research, and they published it in a form that you can read and understand. It is not hidden behind a paywall, but it is available for you to read at your whim.


^This is the published statement of the American Academy of Pediatrics. They are some of the most highly educated doctors in the entire world, and here, they have presented you with the fruits of several decades of painstaking, difficult research. It is all there for you, so you do not have to take anything on faith. You can give yourself reassurance by checking all of their sources to make sure that they are satisfactory to you. They have published a policy statement that has a sense of accountability to the evidence on which it is based.

It is such a wonderful world, where you do not have to take anything on faith at all.
 
Alright, so to be clear, I happen to be transgender, but I do not appreciate views I do not have being projected on me, which many people tend to do in ways that annoy me.

Calling me by the wrong pronoun is really just mildly annoying,
Why do you decide which pronoun you are called?

Do you believe that you can choose how people perceive your race or hair colour?

and it is offensive in a "stupid dimwit" way.
Do you believe that only stupid dimwits can disagree with your preferred pronouns?

I mean if I am dealing with a really uneducated redneck and he is confused by my pronouns,
What makes you think the only problem people have with your pronouns is "confusion"?

I am not going to make too much of an issue of it because I do not stay in this world for the sake of bullying uneducated people. I present as female,
If you "present" as female, and people get your pronouns "wrong", what makes you think your "presentation" is successful?

and most people get it. It has really not been an issue very often in my practical, everyday life.

As I have said before, being transgender is NOT a "thought in my head." It is a neurological difference
So what? Does that make you the opposite sex?

Do you think biologists defined sex based on brain structure?

that is rooted in the combination between higher anisotropy in my occipitofrontal fasciculus, which is higher in transgender women than it is in men but not as high as it is in cis-gender women, and the same structural brain differences that are linked with my sexual orientation (I am attracted to males).
Right, so... what does your brain structure have to do with your sex? Did it cause your sex?


I have seen some studies that give conflicting information regarding the putamen, but I think that those mostly are done on transgender women who are attracted to women, whom I suspect might actually be transgender for different reasons.

As far as I am concerned, my views are perfectly reasonable.
And the people who disagree that males can be women, are their views "unreasonable"?
 
^This one by Burke, Manzouri, and Savic is very easy to follow. It is well organized. Even a complete fool can feel like a real live neuroscientist. They have done good research, and they published it in a form that you can read and understand. It is not hidden behind a paywall, but it is available for you to read at your whim.
I haven't read a single word of this link.

You'll have to explain something up front. Why should anything in anybody's brain structure make reasonable people ignore that trans women are male?
 
So @Bomb#20, it would be really useful at this point, for establishing good faith, to just acknowledge, whether or not you knew already, "Sigma, it is indeed obvious that people are born transgender, and affirmation is clearly necessary for transgender people's health, especially that of transgender youth." Again, I do not care a button whether you already knew or not. I just need us to clear that communication hurdle, so I can know if it is okay to stop reposting those links.

Well, being in this situation was clearly not our idea. Also, we come in every possible level of intelligence, every possible personality type, every ethnic background, every subculture. No two of us really agree perfectly on the "right way to trans." Many transgender people would be offended by the way that I talk about transgenderism, and some of them even consider "transgenderism" to be a slur. I do not care a fig for what every other transgender person thinks, though. I care what I think.

Therefore, imagine someone with a personality that you could genuinely feel sympathy for, but you also know that that person is completely unprepared for dealing with an awkward social situation. Think about a human being that you would actually stick out your neck to protect, in an awkward social situation. This could be a very dumb but adorable stoner that is your friend. This could be a relative that has autism. Just imagine any person that you like as a human being that is also not capable of dealing with an awkward social situation. Now, imagine they are transgender, which puts them in many awkward social situations.

Now, when you spread around rhetoric that could stir up fear against transgender people, you make their situation not only awkward but dangerous. Fear makes people dangerous, whether you mean for it to or not. When people are afraid of me, they become dangerous to me.

I internalized this idea after working around horses. Horses, weirdly enough, are very fearful, very flighty animals. They would almost never hurt you out of viciousness, although some of them can be touchy. To them, you are a warm and friendly hand that comes with grain-feed. They love you. However, they are sometimes also afraid of you, and if you scare them, they just might kick you. When a horse kicks you, that horse can literally kill you in one instant if you are kicked in just the wrong place at just the wrong angle. That horse can shatter your leg out from under you, and if you are out there alone except for the horses, you could be lying there helpless for an entire day or more before someone found you. It is very dangerous when an animal that size is afraid of you.

I do not like for people to be afraid of me. I am not afraid of mean-spirited people: they are just annoying. I am afraid of fearful people. Fearful people can behave like violent maniacs.

When they do, though, I am not going to blame them. I am going to blame the useless son of a bitch that gave them the idea that I was something they should be afraid of.

Fear makes people act like maniacs.

I am not some cult that is trying to oppress you, and I am not anything else sinister, either. I am a silly bookworm that has a ridiculous dragon-themed fairy-goth fashion sensibility. I have a closet full of shirts that say, "I am a book dragon, not a worm." Nothing about me is anything you should be afraid of. If you saw me in person, you would know that someone that would be afraid of me must be a truly dim individual.

Unfortunately, there are some truly dim individuals, out there. When people like some of the individuals here blast messages on social media that could lead people to thinking that we transgender people are some kind of an evil "woke cult" that is trying to "force a woke religion" onto people and "destroy civilization," you might know that that bullshit is a bunch of ridiculous hyperbole. You might know that that shit is not really intended to be taken literally or acted upon. It doesn't matter what the intention is. When a complete idiot reads that kind of hyperbole and that person is an overworked individual that is working double-shifts and then working more on the weekends just in order to survive, that person is not someone that would have time to meditate or reflect on the real meaning of a complex figure of speech, even if that person did have the ability, which that person does not. That person would see a threat to his livelihood and panic like a startled horse.

However, I am not the only one that could get hurt in that situation, but that poor, dumb clod is more likely than I to really be hurt. That person's life could be ruined by their overzealous, unthinking reaction.

Extremist rhetoric makes everything worse. Whether you are engaging in it personally or not, many that are involved in this "anti-woke" movement are. It is going to make everybody's lives all the more complicated. It is going to make our politics more toxic and problematic than they already were. It is gasoline on the fire.
 
It is a bit of a mystery why some people in the civilian world want to belittle and intimidate others by using inappropriate pronouns.
It is a bit of a mystery why you think people 'in the civilian world' want to do that. You are begging the question.
Do you know why some people express hostility about using the pronoun a particular person prefers?
Yes: because it is trying to compel somebody's speech, and, in some cases, forcing them to say things they do not believe.

Is there some altruistic motive behind this kind of behavior?
It depends on what you mean by "altruism". For example, when black people fought for civil rights in America in the 1960s, they surely stood to gain personally, but other people also stood to gain.
"Trying to compel somebody's speech" is an interesting take on it. If a person chooses to demonstrate antisocial behavior,, or as I said in an earlier post, be an insufferable prick, they can expect to have a social stigma put upon them. It's really no different than when Black people fought for the civil rights and racists became to be seen as insufferable pricks.

Perhaps in a generation those who insist that misprouning people is an act of defying tyranny will be seen in the same light as those who once refused to concede that Cassius Clay is now known as Mohammed Ali. It's pretty much the same thing.
You can change your name. You can't change your sex.
A person with a vulva changes their name to John Robert and that's okay, but you draw the line at him and his. Got it.
Of course it's okay. People have changed their names throughout history. I used to live next door to a man who changed his last name to 'Death'.

You can't change your sex. I'm sorry if I draw the line at 'reality'.
I presume he didn't wander the neighborhood in a black robe and carrying a scythe.

Okay, a quick update. A person can choose a name which seems inappropriate for their current vital signs, or a name not generally associated with their genital status, as you perceive it, and you are happy to accede to their wishes. You'll call a living person Death and someone you believe to be a man, Mary, simply because they requested you to do so.

However, you are offended if Mr. Death wants to be a she and this strains your social graciousness to the point you feel justified in returning the offense.
 
*does not succumb to the temptation to click "Show ignored content" because Sigma is a very good little dragon*

Seriously, some people have made such an ideology out of being contrary that it leaves me agog.

Someone that chooses to be that petty and nasty is just immature. There is no other way to describe it.

I am fortunate that most people around me are actually glad to be able to do something simple and easy to make someone else in their lives feel happier. People tend to like that, actually. It is an easy win. Most people are social, and social people like to be liked. If they can get their transgender companions to like them better by using their preferred pronoun, then that is cheap at the price. Just seeing someone smile is the only repayment that they need.

Much of the western world, having seen the evidence and actually met a few transgender people, just think it makes practical, everyday sense to go along with such a simple means of making another human being happy. They are naturally confused when some outlier chooses to be disagreeable, and naturally, they think that person is just being a petty ass-hat for no practical, measurable gain whatsoever.

It is weird when someone is so determined to be contrary that that person goes into hysterics. It is pettiness to such an extreme that I cannot comprehend it. Such histrionics over nothing are just bizarre. It is much of a muchness. It is creating a crisis based on nothing whatsoever that is practical or measurable. There is no quantifiable gain from stirring up a crisis over what would ordinarily be a perfectly sensible social courtesy.

If I had my way, we would blast Twitter off the face of the Internet with dynamite if we had to, and we would just agree that people that choose to misgender a transgender person is just being creepy. People are not obligated to like you if you choose to be unpleasant. People are not even obligated to like you if you are actually perfectly pleasant.

Misgendering people makes you come across as creepy as fuck, and if other people dislike you as a consequence, I think that that is the well-deserved fruits of you being a jackass.

I don't demand anything else out of my society, but if people continue to escalate and quarrel and feud and create a crisis out of a non-crisis just to prove they can be unpleasant, we are going to end up with a much more complicated situation. If you choose to escalate this feud into a situation where people are beating transgender people to death in the streets in service to your pettiness, that shit is how we end up with laws on the books, which I never would have asked for. The reason why it's hard to find the original Tom Sawyer, in spite of the fact that it really constituted some of history's finest abolitionist literature, is that too many people acted like belligerent fools for no reason except to prove that they could be belligerent fools. It just made everything more complicated.

It's social common sense, motherfucker. We shouldn't need a law, but if you create a crisis for no fucking reason, we're going to end up with one when that was never really what I wanted. It goes up there with "don't chew with your mouth open," and "step out of the room if you need to fart." It's in the same bucket as "do not put your dirty boots on another person's expensive sofa, especially not on the same pillow that that person puts their head on." We shouldn't need a law. There should not be enough lack of social intelligence that we should ever need one. People's mouths hanging open because they are agog that you could be such a douche-flute should be enough.

If you are determined to escalate your stupid ass "anti-woke" movement to the point where transgender people are being beaten to death in the street, then sure, that might give you a vengeful sense of satisfaction that you have punished your preferred scapegoat for I-have-no-idea-what self-inflicted misery, but we're going to end up with laws that I never would have asked for, all so that you could prove to us transgender people just how little you thought of us.

I cannot believe that someone could be such an asshole.
 
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Transphobic violence got worse, last year:


I have a feeling it is going to get even worse, this year. With DeSantis pushing his hateful bill and his supporters calling anyone that objects to it "groomers," this is turning into one of the most fucked-up political shit-shows of the 21st Century.

I am not sure when the flashpoint is going to be. It might be this year, or it might continue to escalate for another couple of years before finally one large incident too many makes the news. Eventually, it is going to reach a flashpoint, similar to what occurred in Charlottesville in 2017. I see it as all but inevitable, at this point.
 
Transphobic violence got worse, last year:


I have a feeling it is going to get even worse, this year. With DeSantis pushing his hateful bill and his supporters calling anyone that objects to it "groomers," this is turning into one of the most fucked-up political shit-shows of the 21st Century.

I am not sure when the flashpoint is going to be. It might be this year, or it might continue to escalate for another couple of years before finally one large incident too many makes the news. Eventually, it is going to reach a flashpoint, similar to what occurred in Charlottesville in 2017. I see it as all but inevitable, at this point.
??? There’s little evidence of an epidemic of violence against transsexuals when you actually look at each murder. Killed during robbery; shot sitting in car in Chicago; killed by mentally ill mother; are members of other demographics with high homicide/violence rates.
 
I could have taken the easy way out if I had wanted to. I could have stayed in the closet until I had transitioned so far that it was hard to cover up the fact that I was physically starting to look a lot like a woman, no matter how I dressed, and then I could have just quietly changed jobs, put on some ruby red lipstick and foundation, and gone completely stealth. Nobody ever really needed to know, except those that were clever at guessing based on bone-structure, and most of them are not heel enough to call someone out.

I'm not going to play that game.
 
Of course it's okay. People have changed their names throughout history. I used to live next door to a man who changed his last name to 'Death'.

You can't change your sex. I'm sorry if I draw the line at 'reality'.
I presume he didn't wander the neighborhood in a black robe and carrying a scythe.

Okay, a quick update. A person can choose a name which seems inappropriate for their current vital signs, or a name not generally associated with their genital status, as you perceive it, and you are happy to accede to their wishes. You'll call a living person Death and someone you believe to be a man, Mary, simply because they requested you to do so.

However, you are offended if Mr. Death wants to be a she and this strains your social graciousness to the point you feel justified in returning the offense.

Yeah it’s weird that they start screaming about religious freedom because they have this intense desire to dictate absolute precision (in their minds) in pronouns of other people. “I will not be made to tell a lie abut your ‘religious belief’ about your gender!!1!” It’s so strangely incongruent.

It reminds me of a discussion with a fundy family about halloween costumes, where they were INCENSED that their son wanted to be a female dog.

Like, it’s okay to pretend to be a dog, as long as it’s not a girl dog?

They are really interesting the way the pick this one thing to be hysterical about.
 
Transphobic violence got worse, last year:


I have a feeling it is going to get even worse, this year. With DeSantis pushing his hateful bill and his supporters calling anyone that objects to it "groomers," this is turning into one of the most fucked-up political shit-shows of the 21st Century.

I am not sure when the flashpoint is going to be. It might be this year, or it might continue to escalate for another couple of years before finally one large incident too many makes the news. Eventually, it is going to reach a flashpoint, similar to what occurred in Charlottesville in 2017. I see it as all but inevitable, at this point.
??? There’s little evidence of an epidemic of violence against transsexuals when you actually look at each murder. Killed during robbery; shot sitting in car in Chicago; killed by mentally ill mother; are members of other demographics with high homicide/violence rates.
Your argument is that violence against transsexuals is not as high is irrelevant - the relevant issue is the trend.
 
It is a bit of a mystery why some people in the civilian world want to belittle and intimidate others by using inappropriate pronouns.
It is a bit of a mystery why you think people 'in the civilian world' want to do that. You are begging the question.
Do you know why some people express hostility about using the pronoun a particular person prefers?
Yes: because it is trying to compel somebody's speech, and, in some cases, forcing them to say things they do not believe.

Is there some altruistic motive behind this kind of behavior?
It depends on what you mean by "altruism". For example, when black people fought for civil rights in America in the 1960s, they surely stood to gain personally, but other people also stood to gain.
"Trying to compel somebody's speech" is an interesting take on it. If a person chooses to demonstrate antisocial behavior,, or as I said in an earlier post, be an insufferable prick, they can expect to have a social stigma put upon them. It's really no different than when Black people fought for the civil rights and racists became to be seen as insufferable pricks.

Perhaps in a generation those who insist that misprouning people is an act of defying tyranny will be seen in the same light as those who once refused to concede that Cassius Clay is now known as Mohammed Ali. It's pretty much the same thing.
You can change your name. You can't change your sex.
A person with a vulva changes their name to John Robert and that's okay, but you draw the line at him and his. Got it.
Of course it's okay. People have changed their names throughout history. I used to live next door to a man who changed his last name to 'Death'.

You can't change your sex. I'm sorry if I draw the line at 'reality'.
I presume he didn't wander the neighborhood in a black robe and carrying a scythe.
No. This was a long time ago so I don't remember him well, but no, he didn't do that. I assume he just thought it was edgy to have that last name.

Okay, a quick update. A person can choose a name which seems inappropriate for their current vital signs, or a name not generally associated with their genital status, as you perceive it, and you are happy to accede to their wishes. You'll call a living person Death and someone you believe to be a man, Mary, simply because they requested you to do so.

However, you are offended if Mr. Death wants to be a she
I'm not offended. I just understand it is literally impossible for Mr Death to change sex, and I don't want the State to force me to pretend he is a she. The Australian government has punished people for "misgendering".

and this strains your social graciousness to the point you feel justified in returning the offense.
I am not offended, and calling biological males 'he' is not returning an offense. Not practising your religion or participating in your delusion is not 'returning an offense'.
 
Of course it's okay. People have changed their names throughout history. I used to live next door to a man who changed his last name to 'Death'.

You can't change your sex. I'm sorry if I draw the line at 'reality'.
I presume he didn't wander the neighborhood in a black robe and carrying a scythe.

Okay, a quick update. A person can choose a name which seems inappropriate for their current vital signs, or a name not generally associated with their genital status, as you perceive it, and you are happy to accede to their wishes. You'll call a living person Death and someone you believe to be a man, Mary, simply because they requested you to do so.

However, you are offended if Mr. Death wants to be a she and this strains your social graciousness to the point you feel justified in returning the offense.

Yeah it’s weird that they start screaming about religious freedom because they have this intense desire to dictate absolute precision (in their minds) in pronouns of other people. “I will not be made to tell a lie abut your ‘religious belief’ about your gender!!1!” It’s so strangely incongruent.

It reminds me of a discussion with a fundy family about halloween costumes, where they were INCENSED that their son wanted to be a female dog.

Like, it’s okay to pretend to be a dog, as long as it’s not a girl dog?

They are really interesting the way the pick this one thing to be hysterical about.
The dog problem reminds me of a being an editor on a website that published amateur erotic stories. Unlike most sites of this type this one had standards for punctuation, spelling, and grammar. There were also certain scenarios which could not be portrayed, sort of. Bestiality was not allowed, but if your character was a spirit in the form of dog, that was okay. In other words, one could fantasize about sex with a fantasy dog, but fantasies about real dogs were not permitted.
 
It is a bit of a mystery why some people in the civilian world want to belittle and intimidate others by using inappropriate pronouns.
It is a bit of a mystery why you think people 'in the civilian world' want to do that. You are begging the question.
Do you know why some people express hostility about using the pronoun a particular person prefers?
Yes: because it is trying to compel somebody's speech, and, in some cases, forcing them to say things they do not believe.

Is there some altruistic motive behind this kind of behavior?
It depends on what you mean by "altruism". For example, when black people fought for civil rights in America in the 1960s, they surely stood to gain personally, but other people also stood to gain.
"Trying to compel somebody's speech" is an interesting take on it. If a person chooses to demonstrate antisocial behavior,, or as I said in an earlier post, be an insufferable prick, they can expect to have a social stigma put upon them. It's really no different than when Black people fought for the civil rights and racists became to be seen as insufferable pricks.

Perhaps in a generation those who insist that misprouning people is an act of defying tyranny will be seen in the same light as those who once refused to concede that Cassius Clay is now known as Mohammed Ali. It's pretty much the same thing.
You can change your name. You can't change your sex.
A person with a vulva changes their name to John Robert and that's okay, but you draw the line at him and his. Got it.
Of course it's okay. People have changed their names throughout history. I used to live next door to a man who changed his last name to 'Death'.

You can't change your sex. I'm sorry if I draw the line at 'reality'.
I presume he didn't wander the neighborhood in a black robe and carrying a scythe.
No. This was a long time ago so I don't remember him well, but no, he didn't do that. I assume he just thought it was edgy to have that last name.

Okay, a quick update. A person can choose a name which seems inappropriate for their current vital signs, or a name not generally associated with their genital status, as you perceive it, and you are happy to accede to their wishes. You'll call a living person Death and someone you believe to be a man, Mary, simply because they requested you to do so.

However, you are offended if Mr. Death wants to be a she
I'm not offended. I just understand it is literally impossible for Mr Death to change sex, and I don't want the State to force me to pretend he is a she. The Australian government has punished people for "misgendering".

and this strains your social graciousness to the point you feel justified in returning the offense.
I am not offended, and calling biological males 'he' is not returning an offense. Not practising your religion or participating in your delusion is not 'returning an offense'.
If you issue the disclaimer, "No offense intended," before using a pronoun which a person does not want used for them, I'm sure no one will think less of you because of it.
 
Transphobic violence got worse, last year:


I have a feeling it is going to get even worse, this year. With DeSantis pushing his hateful bill and his supporters calling anyone that objects to it "groomers," this is turning into one of the most fucked-up political shit-shows of the 21st Century.

I am not sure when the flashpoint is going to be. It might be this year, or it might continue to escalate for another couple of years before finally one large incident too many makes the news. Eventually, it is going to reach a flashpoint, similar to what occurred in Charlottesville in 2017. I see it as all but inevitable, at this point.
??? There’s little evidence of an epidemic of violence against transsexuals when you actually look at each murder. Killed during robbery; shot sitting in car in Chicago; killed by mentally ill mother; are members of other demographics with high homicide/violence rates.
Your argument is that violence against transsexuals is not as high is irrelevant - the relevant issue is the trend.
What trend? Insinuating that ever murder of a person who happens to be transexual is a hate crime? When that’s just a lie?
 
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