Greg Abbott Declares War On Gender Nonconformity

[Jarhyn]

It's completely and utterly ridiculous that people might fight so hard to deny people the right to decide for themselves on how their body develops as regards primary sex hormones.

No surgery is necessary at all in a person's life when they are allowed to have some manner of well earned and hard fought control over such a thing as "which puberty".

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The specific part that matters, as it is the only thing that is actually offered people of that age,

False. Multiple mastectomies have been performed on trans-identified girls aged under 18 (indeed aged under 16) in the United States.

Chest Dysphoria and Chest Reconstruction Surgery in Transmasculine Youth

This cohort study examines chest dysphoria in transmasculine youth who have had chest reconstruction surgery compared with those who have not.

jamanetwork.com

Also, the title of your thread is misleading. There is no war on gender nonconformity in Texas.

That is a study of those who had surgery vs those who didn't--but nothing says where they had the surgery.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The specific part that matters, as it is the only thing that is actually offered people of that age, are puberty blockers, which is the real thrust of the order. Everything else is a bad faith claim to equivocate the measures taken to have zero unwanted puberties with surgical intervention

View attachment 37392

Whether side effects mean you shouldn't take something comes down to the benefit vs the risk and whether there are better alternatives. Anything that doesn't take this into consideration is not a serious argument and probably is deceptive.

Drugs can be incredibly dangerous and yet considered acceptable to use because what they're meant for is even worse. Drugs can be quite safe and yet rejected because there's an even better choice.

Let's consider a hypothetical drug: "Coin"--Half the time the person who takes it drops dead on the spot, but if they survive their cancer will be cured. Would the FDA approve it? Certainly, although perhaps with an emergency authorization at first while they direct the company to see if they can identify risk factors.

 

[Metaphor]

The specific part that matters, as it is the only thing that is actually offered people of that age,

False. Multiple mastectomies have been performed on trans-identified girls aged under 18 (indeed aged under 16) in the United States.

Chest Dysphoria and Chest Reconstruction Surgery in Transmasculine Youth

This cohort study examines chest dysphoria in transmasculine youth who have had chest reconstruction surgery compared with those who have not.

jamanetwork.com

Also, the title of your thread is misleading. There is no war on gender nonconformity in Texas.

That is a study of those who had surgery vs those who didn't--but nothing says where they had the surgery.

So, all of those girls were flown by parents to have a mutilation done to their bodies that the United States would not let them do when they were under 18?

Girls are often flown out of countries to get their genitals mutilated when the country the girl's parents are in won't let them do it.

 

[ZiprHead]

Marjorie Taylor Greene Claims Violence Needed To 'Stand Up' To Trans People

Georgia congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene appeared to suggest the threat of violence is "exactly how we need to stand up" against trans and non-binary people in society.

Speaking on conspiracy theorist Alex Jones' InfoWars show on February 20, Greene criticized reports that biologically male counselors who use they/them pronouns at a science camp in California shared a cabin with fifth-grade girls, as well as transgender woman competing in sporting events.

Greene described the reports that the non-binary counselors at the Camp Pali in San Bernardino slept in the same cabin as the school girls as "evil" before suggesting her husband would have attacked the counselors if her children were at the camp.

"First off, if I was a parent and my fifth-grade daughter had to sleep and showered in some kind of cabin at some summer camp that I paid money to send my child to, and there was a man calling himself a woman sleeping in her cabin, showering with her, that guy would, he'd be in jail. He would be in jail," Greene said.

"Well, first off, my husband would've beat him into the ground, and then he'd be in jail. But this is exactly how we need to stand up against this stuff."

There was no suggestion that the counselors showered with the fifth graders at the cabin, and the parents of the Weaver Elementary School student have not accused them of any crime, reported KTLA.

 

[Metaphor]

Marjorie Taylor Greene Claims Violence Needed To 'Stand Up' To Trans People

Georgia congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene appeared to suggest the threat of violence is "exactly how we need to stand up" against trans and non-binary people in society.

Speaking on conspiracy theorist Alex Jones' InfoWars show on February 20, Greene criticized reports that biologically male counselors who use they/them pronouns at a science camp in California shared a cabin with fifth-grade girls, as well as transgender woman competing in sporting events.

Greene described the reports that the non-binary counselors at the Camp Pali in San Bernardino slept in the same cabin as the school girls as "evil" before suggesting her husband would have attacked the counselors if her children were at the camp.

"First off, if I was a parent and my fifth-grade daughter had to sleep and showered in some kind of cabin at some summer camp that I paid money to send my child to, and there was a man calling himself a woman sleeping in her cabin, showering with her, that guy would, he'd be in jail. He would be in jail," Greene said.

"Well, first off, my husband would've beat him into the ground, and then he'd be in jail. But this is exactly how we need to stand up against this stuff."

There was no suggestion that the counselors showered with the fifth graders at the cabin, and the parents of the Weaver Elementary School student have not accused them of any crime, reported KTLA.

I think it is very inappropriate that adult male counselors slept in the same cabins as fifth-grade girls, don't you?

 

[Jarhyn]

Marjorie Taylor Greene Claims Violence Needed To 'Stand Up' To Trans People

Georgia congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene appeared to suggest the threat of violence is "exactly how we need to stand up" against trans and non-binary people in society.

Speaking on conspiracy theorist Alex Jones' InfoWars show on February 20, Greene criticized reports that biologically male counselors who use they/them pronouns at a science camp in California shared a cabin with fifth-grade girls, as well as transgender woman competing in sporting events.

Greene described the reports that the non-binary counselors at the Camp Pali in San Bernardino slept in the same cabin as the school girls as "evil" before suggesting her husband would have attacked the counselors if her children were at the camp.

"First off, if I was a parent and my fifth-grade daughter had to sleep and showered in some kind of cabin at some summer camp that I paid money to send my child to, and there was a man calling himself a woman sleeping in her cabin, showering with her, that guy would, he'd be in jail. He would be in jail," Greene said.

"Well, first off, my husband would've beat him into the ground, and then he'd be in jail. But this is exactly how we need to stand up against this stuff."

There was no suggestion that the counselors showered with the fifth graders at the cabin, and the parents of the Weaver Elementary School student have not accused them of any crime, reported KTLA.

I think it is very inappropriate that adult male counselors slept in the same cabins as fifth-grade girls, don't you?

I think it's very inappropriate for people to spin rhetoric as if "adult" or "male" by whatever inane assignation one places with these things equates automatically to "rapist, probably enough".

Do we want to then say that boys cannot have "male" councilors, either? Lots of child rapists target "boys", after all.

Might as well not let them be teachers at all. Maybe they will be alone in an office with a child.

Might as well not let "males" be bosses might be alone in an office with a subordinate.

Might as well not let men exist in society at all if they are just going to be rapists all the time right?

Or maybe in a cabin full of people all the time, given a person who has no testicles and no attraction to women, girls, or much of any sexual interest except as regards a person with a penis putting it into some part of her own anatomy as will fit a penis, the greatest risk of violation and failure of peace is the conservative asshole busting in.

 

[Metaphor]

I think it's very inappropriate for people to spin rhetoric as if "adult" or "male" by whatever inane assignation one places with these things equates automatically to "rapist, probably enough".

Rhetoric?

The counselors in question are adult males. The girls in question are juvenile females. If the camp had mixed-sex, adult-child sleeping arrangements they should say so. But I'll bet it didn't. Because they didn't have juvenile boys and girls in the same cabin.

Do we want to then say that boys cannot have "male" councilors, either? Lots of child rapists target "boys", after all.

People would find it inappropriate for adult females to sleep in the same cabin as juvenile males, though probably not quite as inappropriate.

You appear obsessed with rape. Nobody said 'rape'. Society has segregated people by sex, especially in intimate situations, since time immemorial. If you think separating people by sex is strange and silly, you are welcome to make the case.

Might as well not let them be teachers at all. Maybe they will be alone in an office with a child.

Might as well not let "males" be bosses might be alone in an office with a subordinate.

By the time I was at university, all the male professors I spoke to left their doors open whenever they were with a student of any kind.

Might as well not let men exist in society at all if they are just going to be rapists all the time right?

You sound like you have a lot of issues with men, Jarhyn.

Or maybe in a cabin full of people all the time, given a person who has no testicles and no attraction to women, girls, or much of any sexual interest except as regards a person with a penis putting it into some part of her own anatomy as will fit a penis, the greatest risk of violation and failure of peace is the conservative asshole busting in.

Once again, I have no idea what you are trying to convey by the sentence above and you will have to rewrite it if you want my comment on it.

If you don't like sex segregation, you can make the case against it. But don't pretend 'gender segregation' is the same thing.

 

[Jarhyn]

People would find it inappropriate for adult females to sleep in the same cabin as juvenile males, though probably not quite as inappropriate.

Inappropriate because?

"Nobody said rape".

You said as much, in saying "it is inappropriate."

Inappropriate because of perceived sexual interest. Because of perceived impropriety as to rape.

You don't get to pretend that isn't where your rhetoric is crescendoing to, and I'm just going to cut you off right there.

You are, right now, accusing all people you perceive as male as "rapist, probably".

You sound like you have a lot of issues with men

No, just with people who imply that all people who Metaphor calls "men" wish to rape little girls, even the ones that have no balls or at least no testosterone and take estrogen.

Once again, I have no idea what you are trying to convey by the sentence above and you will have to rewrite it if you want my comment on it.

"Doesn't sound like anything to me..."

Git Gud.

I don't care much for sex segregation. I care for hormonal separation, at times, certainly, and for fertility separation at others, and for others still, gender/social separation.

I expect that anyone in a cabin as "councilor for 'girls': socially formative; puberty/hormonal guide inclusive" that such a person have socially transitioned and, and have experienced, hormonally, a puberty or puberty-like phase related to prolonged estrogen and progesterone exposure in the absence of testosterone, and the continued absence of such.

That is the club, and the education I expect to be happening there: How to deal with a particular family of "hormone monster". If someone has not punched that ticket, they are simply not qualified for the position

That is what I expect.

I also expect my child to never see their councilor's genitals.

 

[Metaphor]

Inappropriate because?

It doesn't matter why. The point is that people find mixed-sex, adult-juvenile arrangements inappropriate, and deception about such arrangements is therefore also inappropriate.

"Nobody said rape".

You said as much, in saying "it is inappropriate."

No, I didn't.

Inappropriate because of perceived sexual interest. Because of perceived impropriety as to rape.

No. It's perceived inappropriate for whatever reason humans have found mixed-sex sharing of intimate spaces inappropriate, including but not limited to 'seeing somebody with the body and genitals of the other sex'.

You don't get to pretend that isn't where your rhetoric is crescendoing to, and I'm just going to cut you off right there.

You, darling, don't get to put words in my mouth, or anyone's mouth.

You are, right now, accusing all people you perceive as male as "rapist, probably".

No. You are doing that. I suggest you work out your daddy and mummy issues with a therapist, luv.

No, just with people who imply that all people who Metaphor calls "men" wish to rape little girls, even the ones that have no balls or at least no testosterone and take estrogen.

Nope, that's you, sweetie.

"Doesn't sound like anything to me..."

No, it sounds like gobbledygook. I suggest you try harder to compose coherent sentences.

Git Gud.

I don't care much for sex segregation. I care for hormonal separation, at times, certainly, and for fertility separation at others, and for others still, gender/social separation.

Good story. Now tell other people that they are wrong to want sex separation as much as you want those other separations.

I expect that anyone in a cabin as "councilor for 'girls': socially formative; puberty/hormonal guide inclusive" that such a person have socially transitioned and, and have experienced, hormonally, a puberty or puberty-like phase related to prolonged estrogen and progesterone exposure in the absence of testosterone, and the continued absence of such.

I expect that person to be female.

That is the club, and the education I expect to be happening there: How to deal with a particular family of "hormone monster". If someone has not punched that ticket, they are simply not qualified for the position

That is what I expect.

I also expect my child to never see their councilor's genitals.

So would I.

 

[Metaphor]

By the way @ZiprHead, I'm still interested in whether you find adult males sleeping in the same cabin as year 5 females appropriate.

I could have predicted Jarhyn's morally bankrupt opinion, but I don't know yours.

 

[Jarhyn]

It doesn't matter why.

Of fucking course it matters. If it is "inappropriate for a gay man to be in a room with boys" according to some whinge, it absolutely matters "why", same way it matters "why" it is "inappropriate" for a "woman with a penis" to be in a room with girls.

People found same sex attraction held anywhere or in any way "inappropriate". Rationale matters.

No, I didn't [imply it had to do with an unpoken accusation of sexual improprieties]

Yeah, you did.

I suggest you try harder to compose coherent sentences.

I've seen the sentences you fail to parse. Trump may have a better grasp on the written word.

Now tell other people that they are wrong to want sex separation as much as you want those other separations

Other people are wrong to segregate by sex rather than on valid dimensions of difference.

The constitution itself demands we not discriminate on the basis of sex, as does the Civil Rights act of 1964.

The law demands those other separations rather than on "sex".

I expect that person to be female

just as conservatives of yesteryear expected her to be "straight".

You have yet to offer a justification for it other than "Argumentum Ad Polulum".

Your position is ethically bankrupt, the exact same position as the one that got Turing castrated but with different enemies placed in the "ginned up enemy" slot.

 

[ZiprHead]

By the way @ZiprHead, I'm still interested in whether you find adult males sleeping in the same cabin as year 5 females appropriate.

I could have predicted Jarhyn's morally bankrupt opinion, but I don't know yours.

I would say it's just as appropriate as a gay drill sergeant sleeping in the same barracks as the young recruits. I would also say we don't truly know the details of the situation and EmptyG is far from a reliable source for it.

Now I ask you: Do you think it's appropriate for the counselors to get a beat down for doing so?

 

[TomC]

It's completely and utterly ridiculous that people might fight so hard to deny people the right to decide for themselves on how their body develops as regards primary sex hormones.

We both agree, Greg Scott is being a complete political douchebag. This evil legislation is about as bad as setting bounty hunters on women who get abortions.

But I have the same problem with children choosing puberty blocking drugs that I have with children choosing to bang 40y/o people. And no, I don't care if the guardian units agree to it.
Some choices are just too big and permanently impactful to give kids the right to choose them.

And frankly, I consider your thread title worse than fake news. It's flat out false. Preventing children from making certain choices is not at all like "Declaring War on Gender Noncomformity".
Tom

 

[Jarhyn]

Some choices are just too big and permanently impactful...

Which is why blockers.

Puberty is big, and permanently impactful.

I say it is too big and permanently impactful to take the choice away.

We can guide them, we can delay them, but ultimately the choice must be THEIRS and the fact that it is not, and has not been, is a natural evil.

If "a kid is too young", then they are certainly too young to experience puberty at all.

Granted I don't accept that a kid is too young to make the choice to develop mentally a few more years before they turn on the secondary trait driver, so that they can with informed consent opt to the puberty of their choosing, nor too young to opt to allow to let their body just .. develop, if that is what they default to or choose as the case may be.

It's their body, not ours.

 

[Metaphor]

Of fucking course it matters. If it is "inappropriate for a gay man to be in a room with boys" according to some whinge, it absolutely matters "why", same way it matters "why" it is "inappropriate" for a "woman with a penis" to be in a room with girls.

There is no such creature as a woman with a penis.

Yeah, you did.

No. That is your invention.

I've seen the sentences you fail to parse. Trump may have a better grasp on the written word.

Yes, I knew you wouldn't try.

Other people are wrong to segregate by sex rather than on valid dimensions of difference.

Why? I'll leave out your question begging 'valid'.

Why is it wrong to have juvenile sleeping arrangements single sex?

The constitution itself demands we not discriminate on the basis of sex, as does the Civil Rights act of 1964.

So, all single sex arrangements by governments and businesses in America are unconstitutional? America seems like it is about to be handed one hell of a law suit.

just as conservatives of yesteryear expected her to be "straight".

You have yet to offer a justification for it other than "Argumentum Ad Polulum".

I'm not the one interfering in the single-sex arrangements of others. However, if I sent my own daughter to a camp, expecting her to be in a single-sex sleeping arrangement because of the representations made by the camp, and then I discovered the situation in the OP, I'd be livid.

 

[Metaphor]

I would say it's just as appropriate as a gay drill sergeant sleeping in the same barracks as the young recruits.

So, you think an adult male sleeping in the same cabin as year 5 girls is as appropriate as a male drill sergeant sleeping in the same cabin as adult males? If you serve as a barometer, the people on this board are further from their own peak trans moment that I would have guessed, perhaps an impossible distance. It's difficult for me to grasp how you could read what you just wrote and not be utterly repulsed by your own apologia.

I would also say we don't truly know the details of the situation and EmptyG is far from a reliable source for it.

Now I ask you: Do you think it's appropriate for the counselors to get a beat down for doing so?

There is the situation of the facts: did adult males sleep in the same cabins as year 5 girls? We can discuss the propriety of that kind of situation without actually knowing whether it happened in the OP case.

Then there are pertinent facts about representations the camp made to parents. I am nearly certain the camp failed to disclose that sleeping arrangements would be mixed sex. The reason I'm sure of this is because the sleeping arrangements were nearly single-sex, and were single-sex for the juveniles. The camp almost certainly had explicit or implied 'girls cabins' and 'boys cabins' and it is the natural thought of all people whose minds have not been permadestroyed by trans ideology that the adult supervisor sleeping in the same cabin would be the same sex as the children.

If the counselors were permitted by the camp authorities to sleep in the cabins (and the OP reads as if that was the arrangement made by the camp), then the counselors haven't done anything wrong. It's the camp administration who permitted the situation and almost certainly deceived parents.

As more and more people become aware of the deceptions trans ideologists and their enablers indulge in, people willl have to no longer make the same assumptions as before. If parents want their juvenile children to be supervised by an adult of the same sex, it will no longer be enough to rely on the background assumption that just because the children are segregated by sex from each other, that the adults with them will also be the same sex as the children. Parents will now have to learn to make enquiries to determine the level of trans ideological capture that the institution has undergone. This is simply a reality now.

When you gaze long in to the abyss, the abyss gazes long in to you.

 

[ZiprHead]

I would say it's just as appropriate as a gay drill sergeant sleeping in the same barracks as the young recruits.

So, you think an adult male sleeping in the same cabin as year 5 girls is as appropriate as a male drill sergeant sleeping in the same cabin as adult males? If you serve as a barometer, the people on this board are further from their own peak trans moment that I would have guessed, perhaps an impossible distance. It's difficult for me to grasp how you could read what you just wrote and not be utterly repulsed by your own apologia.

I would also say we don't truly know the details of the situation and EmptyG is far from a reliable source for it.

Now I ask you: Do you think it's appropriate for the counselors to get a beat down for doing so?

There is the situation of the facts: did adult males sleep in the same cabins as year 5 girls? We can discuss the propriety of that kind of situation without actually knowing whether it happened in the OP case.

Then there are pertinent facts about representations the camp made to parents. I am nearly certain the camp failed to disclose that sleeping arrangements would be mixed sex. The reason I'm sure of this is because the sleeping arrangements were nearly single-sex, and were single-sex for the juveniles. The camp almost certainly had explicit or implied 'girls cabins' and 'boys cabins' and it is the natural thought of all people whose minds have not been permadestroyed by trans ideology that the adult supervisor sleeping in the same cabin would be the same sex as the children.

If the counselors were permitted by the camp authorities to sleep in the cabins (and the OP reads as if that was the arrangement made by the camp), then the counselors haven't done anything wrong. It's the camp administration who permitted the situation and almost certainly deceived parents.

As more and more people become aware of the deceptions trans ideologists and their enablers indulge in, people willl have to no longer make the same assumptions as before. If parents want their juvenile children to be supervised by an adult of the same sex, it will no longer be enough to rely on the background assumption that just because the children are segregated by sex from each other, that the adults with them will also be the same sex as the children. Parents will now have to learn to make enquiries to determine the level of trans ideological capture that the institution has undergone. This is simply a reality now.

When you gaze long in to the abyss, the abyss gazes long in to you.

I'm not going to address this. Your statement is chock full of straw men. You are arguing dishonestly.

 

[Metaphor]

I would say it's just as appropriate as a gay drill sergeant sleeping in the same barracks as the young recruits.

So, you think an adult male sleeping in the same cabin as year 5 girls is as appropriate as a male drill sergeant sleeping in the same cabin as adult males? If you serve as a barometer, the people on this board are further from their own peak trans moment that I would have guessed, perhaps an impossible distance. It's difficult for me to grasp how you could read what you just wrote and not be utterly repulsed by your own apologia.

I would also say we don't truly know the details of the situation and EmptyG is far from a reliable source for it.

Now I ask you: Do you think it's appropriate for the counselors to get a beat down for doing so?

There is the situation of the facts: did adult males sleep in the same cabins as year 5 girls? We can discuss the propriety of that kind of situation without actually knowing whether it happened in the OP case.

Then there are pertinent facts about representations the camp made to parents. I am nearly certain the camp failed to disclose that sleeping arrangements would be mixed sex. The reason I'm sure of this is because the sleeping arrangements were nearly single-sex, and were single-sex for the juveniles. The camp almost certainly had explicit or implied 'girls cabins' and 'boys cabins' and it is the natural thought of all people whose minds have not been permadestroyed by trans ideology that the adult supervisor sleeping in the same cabin would be the same sex as the children.

If the counselors were permitted by the camp authorities to sleep in the cabins (and the OP reads as if that was the arrangement made by the camp), then the counselors haven't done anything wrong. It's the camp administration who permitted the situation and almost certainly deceived parents.

As more and more people become aware of the deceptions trans ideologists and their enablers indulge in, people willl have to no longer make the same assumptions as before. If parents want their juvenile children to be supervised by an adult of the same sex, it will no longer be enough to rely on the background assumption that just because the children are segregated by sex from each other, that the adults with them will also be the same sex as the children. Parents will now have to learn to make enquiries to determine the level of trans ideological capture that the institution has undergone. This is simply a reality now.

When you gaze long in to the abyss, the abyss gazes long in to you.

I'm not going to address this. Your statement is chock full of straw men. You are arguing dishonestly.

I am sorry that you think that, but there are not any straw men in my statement. I have not caricatured anybody's argument.

 

[ZiprHead]

So, you think an adult male sleeping in the same cabin as year 5 girls is as appropriate as a male drill sergeant sleeping in the same cabin as adult males?

This is completely a straw man. You are leaving out pertinant details to make your case.