Guy gets beaten up by police for calling his sister

[zorq]

I'm asking the authoritarians in the thread. At what point is it acceptable to decline an officer's request without expecting to be assaulted in retaliation?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I know I'm talking about your uncle and all, but that was actually really horrible of him to decide that because he doesn't like somebody, he's going to go after them until he can manage to find a minor violation he's able to fine them for and make them pay for disrespecting him. I see your story as one of somebody who's abusing his authority and he is one of the root causes of why some people feel the need to give cops the finger.

Horrible! Fascism!

Hyperbole!

I posted the story as a counter example to the OP situation...one which some posters have defended as perfectly acceptable police work. There's a pretty big difference between a moving violation and an violent take down. A big difference between "put it down or I'll knock it out of your freaking hand" and "here's your ticket, have a nice day."

Suggesting the two situations are equally indicative of fascism is a bit much.

The basis of each is exactly the same in that it's police officers punishing people for not displaying proper deference to them. He knew that there was nothing he could do legally about it but then he still managed to abuse his power in order to fine the guy for flipping him off. That horrible.

It's not acceptable police work, it's taking advantage of his position as a law enforcement officer in order to harass and punish somebody who hadn't broken any laws and had done nothing except annoy the cop. He ab used his position in order to pursue a personal vendetta against someone he didn't like. That's bad police work and I would go out of my way to flip off someone who did that.

He didn't teach the guy respect for law enforcement officers, he taught them that there are negative consequences for not properly cowtowing to authorities.

 

[Ford]

Horrible! Fascism!

Hyperbole!

I posted the story as a counter example to the OP situation...one which some posters have defended as perfectly acceptable police work. There's a pretty big difference between a moving violation and an violent take down. A big difference between "put it down or I'll knock it out of your freaking hand" and "here's your ticket, have a nice day."

Suggesting the two situations are equally indicative of fascism is a bit much.

The basis of each is exactly the same in that it's police officers punishing people for not displaying proper deference to them. He knew that there was nothing he could do legally about it but then he still managed to abuse his power in order to fine the guy for flipping him off. That horrible.

It's not acceptable police work, it's taking advantage of his position as a law enforcement officer in order to harass and punish somebody who hadn't broken any laws and had done nothing except annoy the cop. He ab used his position in order to pursue a personal vendetta against someone he didn't like. That's bad police work and I would go out of my way to flip off someone who did that.

He didn't teach the guy respect for law enforcement officers, he taught them that there are negative consequences for not properly cowtowing to authorities.

So you see no difference whatsoever? Writing a ticket is the same as sending a guy to the hospital. Gotcha.

 

[Ford]

Horrible! Fascism!

Hyperbole!

I posted the story as a counter example to the OP situation...one which some posters have defended as perfectly acceptable police work. There's a pretty big difference between a moving violation and an violent take down. A big difference between "put it down or I'll knock it out of your freaking hand" and "here's your ticket, have a nice day."

Suggesting the two situations are equally indicative of fascism is a bit much.

It's still a bullshit, unnecessary traffic stop that has the potential to escalate further.

By your own reasoning it wasn't bullshit at all. The kid was being a "mouthy gobshite" and deserved what he got according to your repeated assertion that retaliation by cops is acceptable.

 

[TSwizzle]

It's still a bullshit, unnecessary traffic stop that has the potential to escalate further.

By your own reasoning it wasn't bullshit at all. The kid was being a "mouthy gobshite" and deserved what he got according to your repeated assertion that retaliation by cops is acceptable.

Nope, not once have I said that. Your reading comprehension is a bit shit, innit ?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

The basis of each is exactly the same in that it's police officers punishing people for not displaying proper deference to them. He knew that there was nothing he could do legally about it but then he still managed to abuse his power in order to fine the guy for flipping him off. That horrible.

It's not acceptable police work, it's taking advantage of his position as a law enforcement officer in order to harass and punish somebody who hadn't broken any laws and had done nothing except annoy the cop. He ab used his position in order to pursue a personal vendetta against someone he didn't like. That's bad police work and I would go out of my way to flip off someone who did that.

He didn't teach the guy respect for law enforcement officers, he taught them that there are negative consequences for not properly cowtowing to authorities.

So you see no difference whatsoever? Writing a ticket is the same as sending a guy to the hospital. Gotcha.

Holy shit, dude. Of course it's not the same. One is clearly far worse than the other.

It's the rationale behind the action that's the same, though, and that is a rationale that it's unacceptable for a police officer to have.

Your uncle's story is not a good story. It's a story of him abusing his power in order to punish a man who had broken no laws but that he had a personal vendetta against. It's nowhere close to being as bad as a story about a cop who beats on a suspect because he doesn't like him, but it's still pretty fucking bad.

 

[Ford]

Your uncle's story is not a good story. It's a story of him abusing his power in order to punish a man who had broken no laws but that he had a personal vendetta against.

Holy shit dude. Personal vendetta? Fascism?


You're blowing it way out of proportion and it is worth noting that the guy DID break the law. A minor traffic violation which likely came with a minor fine. Had he rolled through a stop sign in front of any other cop he'd have been given the same ticket.

Now I'll concede that what my uncle did was kind of a dick move, but fascism? Get a grip.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

This is unclear to me and my google-fu has failed me in trying to find an answer.

If you are recording the police and they tell you to put down your phone and stop recording, that is an illegal order and you are under no obligation to obey. At least this is the case if you are recording someone else's arrest. When you're the one being questioned and you want to record the interaction yourself, I'm not sure. All my searches for information about making phone calls just came up with stuff about the right to make calls after your arrest, etc, and not about this situation.

Does anyone know the actual answer?

If a reasonable judge declares that a reasonable police officer would have known that it was unreasonable to tell the guy to get rid of the phone, then it is not exactly not an unlawful order.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Your uncle's story is not a good story. It's a story of him abusing his power in order to punish a man who had broken no laws but that he had a personal vendetta against.

Holy shit dude. Personal vendetta? Fascism?


You're blowing it way out of proportion and it is worth noting that the guy DID break the law. A minor traffic violation which likely came with a minor fine. Had he rolled through a stop sign in front of any other cop he'd have been given the same ticket.

Now I'll concede that what my uncle did was kind of a dick move, but fascism? Get a grip.

Ok, yes, the fascism comment was out of line. I was just shocked that you put that story forward as a positive thing. It's more than a dick move, it's abuse of authority.

If a cop followed anyone for a few blocks, he'd find a minor traffic violation he could fine them for. The reason he was following him was to find such a violation so that he could fine guy guy for flipping him off. They fucking horrible.

 

[Ford]

They fucking horrible.

Huh?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

They fucking horrible.

Huh?

iPad autocorrect. I meant that's fucking horrible.

Police abusing their power to target civilians who piss them off is fucking horrible.

 

[Herrick]

Is there a link that shows the entire video? I can't tell if this guy started fighting the cops but it doesn't look like it. They were yelling at him to get on the ground when they already put him there. It doesn't look like this guy was being "a dick" or violent. If it was illegal to make a phone call at that time, they should've told him it was and that he'd be arrested if he continued making the call.