Happy Holidays - 30 dead or wounded at parade

[Jimmy Higgins]

Anyhow, there are plenty of numbers available. but here's one as close to what I'm talking about as I can get.

Public Mass Shootings: Database Amasses Details of a Half Century of U.S. Mass Shootings with Firearms, Generating Psychosocial Histories

Persons who committed public mass shootings in the U.S. over the last half century were commonly troubled by personal trauma before their shooting incidents, nearly always in a state of crisis at the time, and, in most cases, engaged in leaking their plans before opening fire. Most were insiders...

nij.ojp.gov

Of the 172 individuals who engaged in public mass shootings covered in the database, 97.7% were male. Ages ranged from 11 to 70, with a mean age of 34.1. Those shooting were 52.3% White, 20.9% Black, 8.1% Latino, 6.4% Asian, 4.2% Middle Eastern, and 1.8% Native American.

Most individuals who perpetrated mass shootings had a prior criminal record (64.5%) and a history of violence (62.8%), including domestic violence (27.9%). And 28.5% had a military background. Most died on the scene of the public mass shooting, with 38.4% dying by their own hand and 20.3% killed by law enforcement officers.

[note 1] The Congressional Research Service has defined a public mass shooting as a “a multiple homicide incident in which four or more victims are murdered with firearms”, not including the shooter(s), “within one event, and [where] at least some of the murders occurred in a public location or locations in close geographical proximity (e.g., a workplace, school, restaurant, or other public settings), and the murders are not attributable to any other underlying criminal activity or commonplace circumstance (armed robbery, criminal competition, insurance fraud, argument, or romantic triangle).”

Even without "selection bias" white people top the list. I'd like to give women the honorable mention of miraculously not making the list btw. But let's proceed to talk about how there are more white people living in America than Black, Latino, Asian, Middle Eastern & Native Americans as if that somehow makes the problem go away.

Foot, meet bullet.

Mass shootings: 52.3% white.
America: 61.6% white. (Which is an undercount as your data goes back many years and America has been growing less white.)

Whites are underrepresented.

Of course, when we consider mass killings (10 or more), I think the stats flop well onto whites perpetrators. 80% or so?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Something is going on in the white community that is breading mass shooters yo. Yall dominate that. Wassup?

Mass shooters are disproportionately non-white.

it depends on the definition one uses. The smaller the minimum number of victims, the smaller the proportion of white shooters.

Quibbling about definitions is trying to run up the count by including gangland shootings. What most people are talking about are things like the recent parade shooting--mass attacks with little regard for targeting as opposed to specific individuals. And even by that yardstick whites are underrepresented.

 

[Gospel]

You seem to not understand what's going on at all.

Police don't shoot someone because of what they have done in the past. Police shoot someone because of what they are doing right now.

The fact that they think the guy they are arresting is a mass shooter is irrelevant. The ski mask guy did shoot at the cops--when it looked like he was trying to do so again they shot him.

We're not having this conversation in space where talking in a vacuum makes sense. The police have shot people that did nothing to deserve it. All they have had to do (in the greater part of their history) is THINK it.

Edit: But based on your reply you seemed to have missed my underlying point so we aren't really talking about anything here.

 

[Gospel]

Anyhow, there are plenty of numbers available. but here's one as close to what I'm talking about as I can get.

Public Mass Shootings: Database Amasses Details of a Half Century of U.S. Mass Shootings with Firearms, Generating Psychosocial Histories

Persons who committed public mass shootings in the U.S. over the last half century were commonly troubled by personal trauma before their shooting incidents, nearly always in a state of crisis at the time, and, in most cases, engaged in leaking their plans before opening fire. Most were insiders...

nij.ojp.gov

Of the 172 individuals who engaged in public mass shootings covered in the database, 97.7% were male. Ages ranged from 11 to 70, with a mean age of 34.1. Those shooting were 52.3% White, 20.9% Black, 8.1% Latino, 6.4% Asian, 4.2% Middle Eastern, and 1.8% Native American.

Most individuals who perpetrated mass shootings had a prior criminal record (64.5%) and a history of violence (62.8%), including domestic violence (27.9%). And 28.5% had a military background. Most died on the scene of the public mass shooting, with 38.4% dying by their own hand and 20.3% killed by law enforcement officers.

[note 1] The Congressional Research Service has defined a public mass shooting as a “a multiple homicide incident in which four or more victims are murdered with firearms”, not including the shooter(s), “within one event, and [where] at least some of the murders occurred in a public location or locations in close geographical proximity (e.g., a workplace, school, restaurant, or other public settings), and the murders are not attributable to any other underlying criminal activity or commonplace circumstance (armed robbery, criminal competition, insurance fraud, argument, or romantic triangle).”

Even without "selection bias" white people top the list. I'd like to give women the honorable mention of miraculously not making the list btw. But let's proceed to talk about how there are more white people living in America than Black, Latino, Asian, Middle Eastern & Native Americans as if that somehow makes the problem go away.

Foot, meet bullet.

Mass shootings: 52.3% white.
America: 61.6% white. (Which is an undercount as your data goes back many years and America has been growing less white.)

Whites are underrepresented.

Of course, when we consider mass killings (10 or more), I think the stats flop well onto whites perpetrators. 80% or so?

More black people are killing people per capita than white people = white people aren't killing anybody. Nothing to see here folks.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Something is going on in the white community that is breading mass shooters yo. Yall dominate that. Wassup?

Mass shooters are disproportionately non-white.

it depends on the definition one uses. The smaller the minimum number of victims, the smaller the proportion of white shooters.

Quibbling about definitions is trying to run up the count by including gangland shootings. What most people are talking about are things like the recent parade shooting--mass attacks with little regard for targeting as opposed to specific individuals. And even by that yardstick whites are underrepresented.

People are talking about mass killings, and white people are grossly over-represented in mass killings.

 

[abaddon]

According to this fellow's analysis....


Familicides are the most common type, and mostly are done by white men.



Felony killings are about financial gain and "tend to be young black or Hispanic males with extensive criminal records".



Public mass killings are done mostly by white men.



 

[Gospel]

Mass shootings where the perpetrator is deliberately trying to kill random people are not the same as mass shootings in which some of the victims are unintended targets. What is it some of you think I'm trying to talk about here? I'm not making this distinction to perform some black vs white act to entertain racism. I'm talking about an actual problem that seems to be developing within the white community. The subject of this thread is another case of a white male targeting people without cause (who the victims are doesn't change this).

I'm open to talking about black-on-black crime because I (as well as many people) recognize that it is a problem and will not pull out a bunch of statistics just to use them as an exit.

What I've noticed is they are usually suffering from some form of mental issue, family structure isn't the best, and they think in terms of us vs them. I believe our law enforcement is suffering from similar conditions to an extent (bad apples).

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I think what the numbers show us is that people that shouldn't have access to guns, have way too easy access to guns.

This latest shooting, the guy would not have been able to buy the gun had his idiot father not sponsored his gun license or the Illinois law wouldn't allow a sponsor to overrule a red flag. The 2nd Amendment has been interpreted as meaning 'no questions asked'. Gosh, his Father better be losing sleep at night over this, for a while.

We can't legislate and regulate mass killings out of existence, but I have this odd feeling that we shouldn't make it so easy to commit mass killings.

 

[Politesse]

This latest shooting, the guy would not have been able to buy the gun had his idiot father not sponsored his gun license or the Illinois law wouldn't allow a sponsor to overrule a red flag. The 2nd Amendment has been interpreted as meaning 'no questions asked'. Gosh, his Father better be losing sleep at night over this, for a while.

I hear it is difficult to sleep in jail.

 

[Gospel]

Like our police, they see themselves as a hero to some extent. Like they're doing X because X without regard to how their victims may feel because X is more important than the victims when the victims are just colateral for X.

 

[Jarhyn]

Mass shootings where the perpetrator is deliberately trying to kill random people are not the same as mass shootings in which some of the victims are unintended targets. What is it some of you think I'm trying to talk about here? I'm not making this distinction to perform some black vs white act to entertain racism. I'm talking about an actual problem that seems to be developing within the white community. The subject of this thread is another case of a white male targeting people without cause (who the victims are doesn't change this).

I'm open to talking about black-on-black crime because I (as well as many people) recognize that it is a problem and will not pull out a bunch of statistics just to use them as an exit.

What I've noticed is they are usually suffering from some form of mental issue, family structure isn't the best, and they think in terms of us vs them. I believe our law enforcement is suffering from similar conditions to an extent (bad apples).

I expect much has to do with Fox Derangement Syndrome.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Mass shootings where the perpetrator is deliberately trying to kill random people are not the same as mass shootings in which some of the victims are unintended targets. What is it some of you think I'm trying to talk about here? I'm not making this distinction to perform some black vs white act to entertain racism. I'm talking about an actual problem that seems to be developing within the white community. The subject of this thread is another case of a white male targeting people without cause (who the victims are doesn't change this).

I'm open to talking about black-on-black crime because I (as well as many people) recognize that it is a problem and will not pull out a bunch of statistics just to use them as an exit.

What I've noticed is they are usually suffering from some form of mental issue, family structure isn't the best, and they think in terms of us vs them. I believe our law enforcement is suffering from similar conditions to an extent (bad apples).

I expect much has to do with Fox Derangement Syndrome.

Fox isn't helping, but people involved in mass killings often don't seem to be within a few Stand Dev's of the average. They are more often extremists than partisan.

I'd say Fox is more contributing to our inability to address gun violence. And honestly, with so many guns out there, it'd seem the best we can manage is just to reduce mass killings a bit.

 

[marc]

I think what the numbers show us is that people that shouldn't have access to guns, have way too easy access to guns.

I would love someone to make a campaign commercial like this: Open on a guy with a table full of guns. A democrat comes over asking if he is doing the proper background checks. A republican politician gets in his way pontificating about how they should never do any kind of restrictions on gun rights. In the mean time the guy with the guns is just handing them out to klansmen, guys in ski-masks, terrorists, drug dealers, assorted crazy looking people.

 

[ZiprHead]

 

[Jarhyn]

I think what the numbers show us is that people that shouldn't have access to guns, have way too easy access to guns.

I would love someone to make a campaign commercial like this: Open on a guy with a table full of guns. A democrat comes over asking if he is doing the proper background checks. A republican politician gets in his way pontificating about how they should never do any kind of restrictions on gun rights. In the mean time the guy with the guns is just handing them out to klansmen, guys in ski-masks, terrorists, drug dealers, assorted crazy looking people.

I love this. You could almost put any dem and any Republican into the form factor and it's still applicable.

 

[laughing dog]

Something is going on in the white community that is breading mass shooters yo. Yall dominate that. Wassup?

Mass shooters are disproportionately non-white.

it depends on the definition one uses. The smaller the minimum number of victims, the smaller the proportion of white shooters.

Quibbling about definitions is trying to run up the count by including gangland shootings. What most people are talking about are things like the recent parade shooting--mass attacks with little regard for targeting as opposed to specific individuals. And even by that yardstick whites are underrepresented.

Provide a link to the data that supports your claim, because it appears to me you either completely misunderstand what the discussion is about or that you are obscuring the facts.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I think what the numbers show us is that people that shouldn't have access to guns, have way too easy access to guns.

I would love someone to make a campaign commercial like this: Open on a guy with a table full of guns. A democrat comes over asking if he is doing the proper background checks. A republican politician gets in his way pontificating about how they should never do any kind of restrictions on gun rights. In the mean time the guy with the guns is just handing them out to klansmen, guys in ski-masks, terrorists, drug dealers, assorted crazy looking people.

That won't work. Think it needs to be more like this.

Gun Shop Owner: How can I help you?
Buyer: I'd like semi-automatic rifle.
Gun Shop Owner: *plops gun on counter* Ammo?
Buyer: Oh yeah. Largest magazines you have.
Gun Shop Owner: *plops ammo on counter* I need to see some ID and a credit card.
Buyer: *Passes ID over*
Gun Shop Owner: *Owner looks at ID* So, doing target practice?
Buyer: I guess you can say that. I'm going to shoot up a July 4th parade. I found a nice hidden spot to shoot from. Hope to make some children into orphans. Some married couples into widows.
Gun Shop Owner: *looks aghast* My god, that is awful! I can't sell you this stuff. And I'm contacting the police!

*cuts out*
But that isn't how it actually happens.

Gun Shop Owner: How can I help you?
Buyer: I'd like semi-automatic rifle.
Gun Shop Owner: *plops gun on counter* Ammo?
Buyer: Oh yeah. Largest magazines you have.
Gun Shop Owner: *plops ammo on counter* I need to see some ID and a credit card.
Buyer: *Passes ID over*
Gun Shop Owner: *Owner looks at ID, processes payment* Okay, have a nice day.

*pans to Highland Park scenes with all the chairs and parade stuff left behind*

I think another angle would be TSA verses buying a gun.
Starts by showing a guy waiting in a long line at the airport. Needs to take off his shoes, has some liquid stuff taken from him, removes his belt, goes through the nude scanner...

Then shows a guy walking in to a gun store, buys a gun no questions asked, gets into a car with a map visibly marked up as if a targeted location.

 

[Gospel]

Statistics show more brown people are killing people so the shooter's affiliates shouldn't be looked into. Amirite?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Statistics show more brown people are killing people so the shooter's affiliates shouldn't be looked into. Amirite?

I certainly do consider the MAGA crowd a problem.

Lots of guns, lots of parents in serious denial, lots of abusive parenting.

 

[Tigers!]

But that isn't how it actually happens.

Gun Shop Owner: How can I help you?
Buyer: I'd like semi-automatic rifle.
Gun Shop Owner: *plops gun on counter* Ammo?
Buyer: Oh yeah. Largest magazines you have.
Gun Shop Owner: *plops ammo on counter* I need to see some ID and a credit card.
Buyer: *Passes ID over*
Gun Shop Owner: *Owner looks at ID, processes payment* Okay, have a nice day.

If that be remotely true then I am astounded that it is easier to buy a gun than open a bank account.