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Harvard

Elixir

Elixir

Made in America
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Harvard has some high caliber individuals lining up behind it. Do they have sufficient resources to hold out for a SCOTUS ruling?
Trump's war on academic freedom may depend on how much sentiment and money it smokes out of the general public, all included.

Certainly SCOTUS will be slow to put a stop to Trump's flaunting of immunity.
Some of it appears to have little purpose beyond staking out ground, probing for for an as yet undiscovered limit to the "immunity" he is allowed, in compelling others to commit crimes in order to attain his illegal ends. If SCOTUS follows suit, they will rule that the ends may be illegal, but the order to pursue them falls under the immunity they previously g(r)ifted him.
So it would be up to rank and file, officers etc to defy the President's order?
Holy shit.
If THOSE people started getting arrested or even pressured, it would consolidate the whole insurrectionist movement, and provoke unlimited pre-emptive pardons to anyone accused of doing Trump's bidding. But nobody will arrest them because the US Marshals who would "normally" do the arresting, are under the executive...

Maybe Jesus will appear to Trump in a dream and take him on a tour of Hell, letting him know he'll be there soon UNLESS he gives everything away to the poor and becomes an ascetic Monk.
Outside of that, I think we just have to root for Ronald McDonald.
Or maybe he'll catch a little sniffle and get a recommendation from his HHS appointee.

A race against time (2026), and I applaud ALL the noise Harvard can make, international influence it can wield and depth of support it can summon, even if most of it has to come from its own grads.
 
Universities are easily intimidated. So are individual people, corporations, and whole societies. The Right Wing knows how to play those cards, Ref: the effects of the Red Scare in the US, 1950s.
 
lostone said:
Universities are easily intimidated. So are individual people, corporations, and whole societies. The Right Wing knows how to play those cards, Ref: the effects of the Red Scare in the US, 1950s.
Click to expand...
SCROTUS is making whiney noises about the Trump regime defying their orders.
Will they stand up for themselves or find excuse to cower in their corner?
They are in a tough situation; they will need an enforcement capability that is not operating under the Executive branch. So far no indication that they can even go there.
 
But isn't university research part of what makes America great? I always thought it was research at universities, the military, and other entities not concerned with showing a profit in the immediate future. Seems to me, as long as China can keep the research pedal to the metal, what Trump is doing is antithetical to what is on his stupid fucking hat.
 
Elixir said:
Harvard has some high caliber individuals lining up behind it. Do they have sufficient resources to hold out for a SCOTUS ruling?
Trump's war on academic freedom may depend on how much sentiment and money it smokes out of the general public, all included.

Certainly SCOTUS will be slow to put a stop to Trump's flaunting of immunity.
Some of it appears to have little purpose beyond staking out ground, probing for for an as yet undiscovered limit to the "immunity" he is allowed, in compelling others to commit crimes in order to attain his illegal ends. If SCOTUS follows suit, they will rule that the ends may be illegal, but the order to pursue them falls under the immunity they previously g(r)ifted him.
So it would be up to rank and file, officers etc to defy the President's order?
Holy shit.
If THOSE people started getting arrested or even pressured, it would consolidate the whole insurrectionist movement, and provoke unlimited pre-emptive pardons to anyone accused of doing Trump's bidding. But nobody will arrest them because the US Marshals who would "normally" do the arresting, are under the executive...

Maybe Jesus will appear to Trump in a dream and take him on a tour of Hell, letting him know he'll be there soon UNLESS he gives everything away to the poor and becomes an ascetic Monk.
Outside of that, I think we just have to root for Ronald McDonald.
Or maybe he'll catch a little sniffle and get a recommendation from his HHS appointee.

A race against time (2026), and I applaud ALL the noise Harvard can make, international influence it can wield and depth of support it can summon, even if most of it has to come from its own grads.
Click to expand...
I saw on the news last night that Harvard has about 50 billion bucks they can use to fight Trump. I hope that's right and they do all they can to piss him off. I also read that Columbia U is going to stand up to the felon. These so called Ivy League schools need to start using their funds to fight for democracy!
 
southernhybrid said:
Elixir said:
Harvard has some high caliber individuals lining up behind it. Do they have sufficient resources to hold out for a SCOTUS ruling?
Trump's war on academic freedom may depend on how much sentiment and money it smokes out of the general public, all included.

Certainly SCOTUS will be slow to put a stop to Trump's flaunting of immunity.
Some of it appears to have little purpose beyond staking out ground, probing for for an as yet undiscovered limit to the "immunity" he is allowed, in compelling others to commit crimes in order to attain his illegal ends. If SCOTUS follows suit, they will rule that the ends may be illegal, but the order to pursue them falls under the immunity they previously g(r)ifted him.
So it would be up to rank and file, officers etc to defy the President's order?
Holy shit.
If THOSE people started getting arrested or even pressured, it would consolidate the whole insurrectionist movement, and provoke unlimited pre-emptive pardons to anyone accused of doing Trump's bidding. But nobody will arrest them because the US Marshals who would "normally" do the arresting, are under the executive...

Maybe Jesus will appear to Trump in a dream and take him on a tour of Hell, letting him know he'll be there soon UNLESS he gives everything away to the poor and becomes an ascetic Monk.
Outside of that, I think we just have to root for Ronald McDonald.
Or maybe he'll catch a little sniffle and get a recommendation from his HHS appointee.

A race against time (2026), and I applaud ALL the noise Harvard can make, international influence it can wield and depth of support it can summon, even if most of it has to come from its own grads.
Click to expand...
I saw on the news last night that Harvard has about 50 billion bucks they can use to fight Trump. I hope that's right and they do all they can to piss him off. I also read that Columbia U is going to stand up to the felon. These so called Ivy League schools need to start using their funds to fight for democracy!
Click to expand...
Harvard has 50 billion?! Seems like an excessive amount. How about instead of accumulating wealth, they lower tuition costs so that middle and lower income students have a chance at attending?
 
thebeave said:
Harvard has 50 billion?! Seems like an excessive amount. How about instead of accumulating wealth, they lower tuition costs so that middle and lower income students have a chance at attending?
Click to expand...
Harvard University awards a total of approximately $235 million annually in undergraduate scholarships and financial aid as of 2022, reflecting a more than 190% increase from $80 million in 2005. This figure covers need-based grants for about 55% of Harvard College students, who pay an average of $15,700 per year after aid.
For individual students, the average scholarship and financial aid package is about $68,700 per year, covering a significant portion of the total cost of attendance.
So … what do you suggest? That they shoot the wad to bring in more poor Trumpsucking “students”, and allow a fucking apricot to re-write their curricula?
Sounds like a REALLY bad idea.
They also have other expenses that their liquid assets need to cover.
I find it encouraging that they are willing and able to stand up to the fascists’ attack.
 
Hell yeah, fill that right wing quota. Teach the "controversy".

Viewpoint Diversity in Admissions and Hiring. By August 2025, the University shall
commission an external party, which shall satisfy the federal government as to its
competence and good faith, to audit the student body, faculty, staff, and leadership for
viewpoint diversity, such that each department, field, or teaching unit must be individually
viewpoint diverse. This audit shall begin no later than the summer of 2025 and shall proceed
on a department-by-department, field-by-field, or teaching-unit-by-teaching-unit basis as
appropriate. The report of the external party shall be submitted to University leadership and

p. 3​

the federal government no later than the end of 2025. Harvard must abolish all criteria,
preferences, and practices, whether mandatory or optional, throughout its admissions and
hiring practices, that function as ideological litmus tests. Every department or field found to
lack viewpoint diversity must be reformed by hiring a critical mass of new faculty within
that department or field who will provide viewpoint diversity; every teaching unit found to
lack viewpoint diversity must be reformed by admitting a critical mass of students who will
provide viewpoint diversity. If the review finds that the existing faculty in the relevant
department or field are not capable of hiring for viewpoint diversity, or that the relevant
teaching unit is not capable of admitting a critical mass of students with diverse viewpoints,
hiring or admissions within that department, field, or teaching unit shall be transferred to the
closest cognate department, field, or teaching unit that is capable of achieving viewpoint
diversity. This audit shall be performed and the same steps taken to establish viewpoint
diversity every year during the period in which reforms are being implemented, which shall
be at least until the end of 2028.
Click to expand...
 
About the only way to get SCOTUS to wake up is to mess with Harvard and Yale. That's where they all came from.
 
Elixir said:
thebeave said:
Harvard has 50 billion?! Seems like an excessive amount. How about instead of accumulating wealth, they lower tuition costs so that middle and lower income students have a chance at attending?
Click to expand...
Harvard University awards a total of approximately $235 million annually in undergraduate scholarships and financial aid as of 2022, reflecting a more than 190% increase from $80 million in 2005. This figure covers need-based grants for about 55% of Harvard College students, who pay an average of $15,700 per year after aid.
For individual students, the average scholarship and financial aid package is about $68,700 per year, covering a significant portion of the total cost of attendance.
So … what do you suggest? That they shoot the wad to bring in more poor Trumpsucking “students”, and allow a fucking apricot to re-write their curricula?
Sounds like a REALLY bad idea.
They also have other expenses that their liquid assets need to cover.
I find it encouraging that they are willing and able to stand up to the fascists’ attack.
Click to expand...
So, scholarships are roughly $0.25 billion, but they have $50 billion total? That's a pretty small fraction (0.5%), IMHO. Smaller than I was expecting. I would think they can do better.

I guess to address the rest of the issue, it would be nice to see that actual demands that Trump is placing on these universities. Have seen it? Posting it here would help to clear up and uncertainties about what is going on and keep the discussion on track.
 
TV and credit cards said:
But isn't university research part of what makes America great? I always thought it was research at universities, the military, and other entities not concerned with showing a profit in the immediate future. Seems to me, as long as China can keep the research pedal to the metal, what Trump is doing is antithetical to what is on his stupid fucking hat.
Click to expand...
The "G" stands for Caucasian. The Trump cadre hates the universities.
 
thebeave said:
Elixir said:
thebeave said:
Harvard has 50 billion?! Seems like an excessive amount. How about instead of accumulating wealth, they lower tuition costs so that middle and lower income students have a chance at attending?
Click to expand...
Harvard University awards a total of approximately $235 million annually in undergraduate scholarships and financial aid as of 2022, reflecting a more than 190% increase from $80 million in 2005. This figure covers need-based grants for about 55% of Harvard College students, who pay an average of $15,700 per year after aid.
For individual students, the average scholarship and financial aid package is about $68,700 per year, covering a significant portion of the total cost of attendance.
So … what do you suggest? That they shoot the wad to bring in more poor Trumpsucking “students”, and allow a fucking apricot to re-write their curricula?
Sounds like a REALLY bad idea.
They also have other expenses that their liquid assets need to cover.
I find it encouraging that they are willing and able to stand up to the fascists’ attack.
Click to expand...
So, scholarships are roughly $0.25 billion, but they have $50 billion total? That's a pretty small fraction (0.5%), IMHO. Smaller than I was expecting. I would think they can do better.

I guess to address the rest of the issue, it would be nice to see that actual demands that Trump is placing on these universities. Have seen it? Posting it here would help to clear up and uncertainties about what is going on and keep the discussion on track.
Click to expand...
Scombrid quoted the letter in full just two posts above yours...
 
Politesse said:
ImGod said:
About the only way to get SCOTUS to wake up is to mess with Harvard and Yale. That's where they all came from.
Click to expand...
Except that they don't want minorities there, either; they will be all aboard for this purge of "viewpoints".
Click to expand...
Yup. SCROTUS is an arm of the fascist party. And that’s another reason the University needs to have a large reserve.
They may need to go it alone for another three plus years, if they are to survive at all.
 
Harvard refused because they could, but also because they must. When the government is demanding direct control over faculty hiring, ordering the destruction or censorship of entire domains of knowledge, it is the duty of every scholar to deny them entry, and to defend the knowledge we now possess.

I am reminded of the words of Haitian anthropologist Michel-Rolph Trouillot, who mused on the haze of propaganda and weaponized culture that swept the dictatorial Duvalier regime into nearly unchecked power over his nation, thusly:

"We are never so steeped in history as when we pretend not to be, but if we stop pretending, we may gain in understanding what we lose in false innocence. Naivete is often an excuse for those who hold power. For those upon whom that power is exerted, naivete is always a mistake."
 
thebeave said:
So, scholarships are roughly $0.25 billion, but they have $50 billion total? That's a pretty small fraction (0.5%), IMHO. Smaller than I was expecting. I would think they can do better.

I guess to address the rest of the issue, it would be nice to see that actual demands that Trump is placing on these universities. Have seen it? Posting it here would help to clear up and uncertainties about what is going on and keep the discussion on track.
Click to expand...
The demand is to kill DEI, where DEI is whatever the heck they want to say it is, as "DEI" isn't actually defined. You want specifics, but the Exec Order is specifically broad.
 
Angrily, purposefully broad. They would fervently deny that they are proposing a culling of Democrat, gay, and black faculty and students, even though it is obvious that is what they intend. No, they are not going to be forcibly placing Communist faculty in the political science department for the sake of " viewpoint diversity", or increasing the number of scholarships that go to children who grew up on TANF groceries.

But even if their intentions were entirely benevolent, seizing direct federal control over the basic functions of the university system would still be wrong, and dangerous. Cabinet flunkies and AI bots are neither qualified nor able to successfully determine how best to arrange the human resources and curricula of a top tier university system, and the only reason they covet that power is because they want to undermine and destroy that system.
 
Project 2025 did their homework. It is a remarkable job they have accomplished. I'd be worthy of a Nobel Prize, if they awarded such things.
 
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