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Has Trump ALREADY pardoned himself and his family?

Rhea

Rhea

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Of course, the shoe that everyone is waiting to drop is Trump's pardons of himself and/or his family. Maybe those will come on Christmas itself, undoubtedly the single best day of the year to avoid public scrutiny. On the other hand, the folks he's already pardoned have been convicted of various crimes, and so need to invoke the pardon ASAP in order to escape (or else avoid) the hoosegow. By contrast, if the President pardons himself, his relatives, or other key members of his inner circle (Rudy Giuliani, Stephen Miller, Mike Pompeo, etc.), they would be preemptive pardons that the recipients would keep in their back pockets until needed.

There's actually no enforceable legal requirement that pardons be announced when issued, so it's possible we don't learn about Trump family/inner circle pardons for months or years, if we ever do. Of course, if any of them are ever indicted, they will whip the pardons out for all to see. (Z)
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So for al we know, Trump has already issued pocket pardons for himself and his corrupt children.

This is a loophole that should be closed asap.
 
You know, the White House has been hemorrhaging competence for a while, now. Not sure if the lawyers writing these pardons are the Best & Brightest.
Whst are the odds that with so many pardons being issued, there are a few t's not dotted, a few i's not crossed? Especially since they aren't using the Pardon office, with the Pardon Application (obviously, they don't want to wait the requisite 5 years to use that path).

And no one still on staff is either able to detect a critical error, or willing to get it corrected before the ink dries?

I would be tickled pink if a month from now, some of these felons find critical mistakes that the DoJ isn't willing to overlook.
An effective date of 31 November. (Had that on a badge, once)
Listing Ivanka's crimes on Giuliani's pardon.
Incomplete lists of crimes being pardoned.
Poor latin making Don Jr. the victim of the pardon, not the recipient.

Looking at the cases filed for the election frauds, it's possible.
 
jab said:
Shadowy Man said:
fromderinside said:
Seems to me there needs to be a reason for a pardon, a cause for it's existence. One needs to be pardoned for something beyond existing.
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Logically, it would seem one shouldn’t be eligible for a pardon until convicted.
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Apparently, teh precedent was set with the Pardon of Nixon.
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Perhaps, but it still makes no sense. Since our legal system has presumption of innocence, one isn’t guilty of anything until either a conviction or a confession. Does it make sense to pardon someone for a crime they *didn’t* commit? If Trump and/or his family are willing to confess to federal crimes then I’d see pardoning then at least making legal sense.
 
Shadowy Man said:
jab said:
Apparently, teh precedent was set with the Pardon of Nixon.
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Perhaps, but it still makes no sense. Since our legal system has presumption of innocence, one isn’t guilty of anything until either a conviction or a confession. Does it make sense to pardon someone for a crime they *didn’t* commit? If Trump and/or his family are willing to confess to federal crimes then I’d see pardoning then at least making legal sense.
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The jury and judge presume innocence. The prosecution believes and tries to prove guilt. The defense either says "innocent," or "guilty but, see, here's the thing...."

A pardon issued acknowledges guilt. You did it, but we think you shouldn't be punished. Accepting a pardon acknowledges guilt (as opposed to being falsely accused, falsely convicted, mother-in-law on the jury).

There is debate about whether or not Trump can pardon people for committing crimes he was party to, using the pardon to cover his own criminality, as a trade for covering him. I assume this going to be tested in court real soon.
And if the first one fails to stand up to testing, expect the rush to make deals to start trending....
 
So if you accept a pardon there has to be an “it” that has been done. It can’t be given then you can go out and do the it already having been pardoned for it. So if he or someone in his family accepts a pardon they are admitting they have already committed a federal crime even if it hasn’t yet been exposed, right?
 
The direct text of the pardons are here.

Pardons for Trump and his family members are not listed.
 
Shadowy Man said:
So if you accept a pardon there has to be an “it” that has been done.
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yeah, you cannot post date a pardon for a crime they plan to commit during another president's term of office. Nor can you leave the felony blank, like acoupon. "Full pardon for the first three felonies charged against acts committed before 2021."
So if he or someone in his family accepts a pardon they are admitting they have already committed a federal crime even if it hasn’t yet been exposed, right?
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yes.
Which means if the crime they committed/were pardoned for is being further investigated, they cannot plead the 5th. They can be compelled to testify about the crime, and any co-conspirators, or face contempt charges.
 
Rhea said:
ZiprHead said:
The direct text of the pardons are here.

Pardons for Trump and his family members are not listed.
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Is that page defined as a complete list? They can’t issue pocket pardons any more?

This Time article seems to think he does not have to list them there.

https://time.com/4933386/donald-trump-secret-pardon-law/
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The linked page seems to be the Dept of Justice's list. I would guess they have to know about pardons before Trump leaves office. Otherwise he'll be selling pardons for the rest of his life, backdating them to his time in office.

Imagine if Hunter Biden suddenly produced a pardon from Obama for his Ukraine adventures....
 
The relevant portion of Nixon's pardon reads as follows:

Now, THEREFORE, I, GERALD R. FORD, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9, 1974.
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I'm sure White House council has read this, so if Trump does issue a pardon for himself, it will be interesting to see what time window it covers.
 
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