Hawiian missle warning

[Artemus]

All the news sites are reporting that a false warning of an incoming ballistic missile was sent out on Hawaiian cell phones this morning. I can't imagine how it felt to receive that. I hope that there is no scapegoating if this resulted due to insufficient safeguards.

The Commander-in-Chief apparently didn't think it was worth the time to stop his golf game to reassure American citizens that no, the country hasn't entered a nuclear war after all.

 

[bilby]

All the news sites are reporting that a false warning of an incoming ballistic missile was sent out on Hawaiian cell phones this morning. I can't imagine how it felt to receive that. I hope that there is no scapegoating if this resulted due to insufficient safeguards.

The Commander-in-Chief apparently didn't think it was worth the time to stop his golf game to reassure American citizens that no, the country hasn't entered a nuclear war after all.

"...with the governor's office later clarifying it was caused when someone pushed the wrong button"

In unrelated news, thousands are feared dead after a tsunami struck Hawaii without warning this morning. Many of the victims were, for no apparent reason, hiding in their cellars at the time.

 

[Artemus]

All the news sites are reporting that a false warning of an incoming ballistic missile was sent out on Hawaiian cell phones this morning. I can't imagine how it felt to receive that. I hope that there is no scapegoating if this resulted due to insufficient safeguards.

The Commander-in-Chief apparently didn't think it was worth the time to stop his golf game to reassure American citizens that no, the country hasn't entered a nuclear war after all.

"...with the governor's office later clarifying it was caused when someone pushed the wrong button"

Sure, but shouldn't there be safeguards to prevent one person hitting the wrong button from putting an entire state in to a state (in this case rather reasonable) panic? Is the scapegoating already starting?

ETA: It's reactions like this that get me worried. He's more interested in "tough and quick accountability" than making sure it does not happen again, at least based on his statement. Maybe he'll soften it when the shock has worn off.

 

[bilby]

All the news sites are reporting that a false warning of an incoming ballistic missile was sent out on Hawaiian cell phones this morning. I can't imagine how it felt to receive that. I hope that there is no scapegoating if this resulted due to insufficient safeguards.

The Commander-in-Chief apparently didn't think it was worth the time to stop his golf game to reassure American citizens that no, the country hasn't entered a nuclear war after all.

"...with the governor's office later clarifying it was caused when someone pushed the wrong button"

Sure, but shouldn't there be safeguards to prevent one person hitting the wrong button from putting an entire state in to a state (in this case rather reasonable) panic? Is the scapegoating already starting?

Maybe the 'someone' who pushed the wrong button was Kim Jong Un.

 

[Patooka]

Last year it was fake terrorist attacks like Bowling Green. Fake missile attacks does seem to be the next logical progression. Maybe next year we get alien invasion, H.G Wells style.

 

[thebeave]

All the news sites are reporting that a false warning of an incoming ballistic missile was sent out on Hawaiian cell phones this morning. I can't imagine how it felt to receive that. I hope that there is no scapegoating if this resulted due to insufficient safeguards.

The Commander-in-Chief apparently didn't think it was worth the time to stop his golf game to reassure American citizens that no, the country hasn't entered a nuclear war after all.

It probably felt something like this:

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0UxzsVPn10[/YOUTUBE]

Reminds me of back in the mid-80's there was an hour long mock TV news segment on a fictional nuclear attack on, I believe North Carolina. It actually looked pretty real (no commercial interruptions), but there was a notice every 10 minutes or so at the bottom of the screen that said it wasn't a real attack, etc. While me and my roommate were watching it, my cousin comes over to our apartment drunk after partying with his softball team. We told him it was a real nuclear attack, and he believed it. It was just nothing but "Holy Fuck! Holy Shit! We're fucking doomed!" out of his mouth for the next half hour. Somehow, he even missed reading the text crawls saying it wasn't real...maybe that was the drunkeness was at work? Me and my roommate did everything we could to keep from bursting apart at the seams with laughter. We finally told him near the end and he was pretty mad and embarrassed. He kind of went crazy and he and my roommate ended up in a wrestling match on the living room floor. That was probably the funniest part of the whole thing.

 

[Artemus]

Here's a better response that says "the system failed." May the cooler heads prevail.

People are making light of this, but with Kim Jung Un and Trump in a joint my-dick-is-bigger tantrum and KJU bragging that he can hit Hawaii with a nuke, I don't blame people at all for reacting how they did.

 

[RavenSky]

Here's a better response that says "the system failed." May the cooler heads prevail.

People are making light of this, but with Kim Jung Un and Trump in a joint my-dick-is-bigger tantrum and KJU bragging that he can hit Hawaii with a nuke, I don't blame people at all for reacting how they did.

I agree, and agree that Trump's lack of response is disgusting.

That said, the military base in Hawaii - and thus presumably anyone advising Trump - knew it was a false alarm immediately because they had not issued a warning to Hawaii EMA. I do think that any normal human being in his position would have interrupted his fucking golf game to reassure Hawaiians it was a false alarm; but given how awful he is at everything he does, perhaps it is best that he didn't.

And perhaps it's best that he cares so little, because it will hopefully prevent him over-reacting and attacking N Korea over a false alarm.

 

[Artemus]

but given how awful he is at everything he does, perhaps it is best that he didn't.

And perhaps it's best that he cares so little, because it will hopefully prevent him over-reacting and attacking N Korea over a false alarm.

Very good points.

 

[Artemus]

Per NBC News:

an individual on his team sent the alert in error, even clicking through a redundancy on a computer screen intended to act as a safeguard from such a mistake.

I wonder if it popped up a message "Are you sure you want to do this?" They're so common on trivial things that I've clicked through them automatically on not quite so trivial things. (Always have backup!) It says lower that they are going to a two-person verification, which in hindsight should have been there in the first place.

 

[ronburgundy]

Speaking of idiots pressing dangerous buttons, it is absurd and seems unconstitutional that the US president can order a nuclear launch without the approval of any other person. Such a launch is clearly a declaration of war that should require Congress. Yet, the president can unilaterally give an order any second and anyone who doesn't obey it is a criminal.

Never in history has a US president been as mentally unstable and likely to launch such an attack on a personal whim, nor been so likely to completely disregard his military advisors out of infantile egoism. Thus, never has the need been greater to change this procedure to be in line with clear constitutional intent.

 

[bilby]

Speaking of idiots pressing dangerous buttons, it is absurd and seems unconstitutional that the US president can order a nuclear launch without the approval of any other person. Such a launch is clearly a declaration of war that should require Congress. Yet, the president can unilaterally give an order any second and anyone who doesn't obey it is a criminal.

Never in history has a US president been as mentally unstable and likely to launch such an attack on a personal whim, nor been so likely to completely disregard his military advisors out of infantile egoism. Thus, never has the need been greater to change this procedure to be in line with clear constitutional intent.

Well the problem with requiring Congressional approval is that, unlike wars of the eighteenth century, when mobilisation took weeks before any actual fighting started, a nuclear exchange could be over (and your ability to retaliate destroyed) within a few minutes.

By the time an incoming strike is detected, confirmed, and reported to POTUS, he only has at best maybe ten minutes to order a response; you couldn't get Congress to decide on a tea-break in less than a few days.

The situation for a US first strike is not quite so time critical, but if it's a decapitation strike against a nuclear armed enemy, its success is dependent upon secrecy, so telling a few hundred Representatives and Senators well in advance is a recipe for disaster - even if none are traitors in themselves, it's a poor idea to rely on them all being both intelligent enough and calm enough not to accidentally let the cat out of the bag, and an even worse idea to assume that their staff and families will either remain out of the loop, or keep their mouths shut. The temptation to tell your family and friends to get out of town, if you know a nuclear war is imminent would be immense, and in a situation that is sufficiently unstable as to have POTUS considering a first strike, any inkling of this would be enough to provoke an preemptive strike by the enemy.

TL;DR Nuclear War doesn't allow enough time to consult congress.

Having a two or three man authority might work though.

 

[DBT]

Whoever it was that pushed the button is going to get quite a reaming.

 

[Artemus]

Whoever it was that pushed the button is going to get quite a reaming.

Maybe not. The employee had to choose from a drop-down menu between "Test Missile Alert" and "Missile Alert". With a poorly design interface like that the mistake was essentially inevitable. At least the agency (per the spokesperson) seems to recognize that:

“Part of the problem was it was too easy — for anyone — to make such a big mistake,” Rapoza told the Post. “We have to make sure that we’re not looking for retribution, but we should be fixing the problems in the system.”

 

[Keith&Co.]

Speaking of idiots pressing dangerous buttons, it is absurd and seems unconstitutional that the US president can order a nuclear launch without the approval of any other person.

Actually, the guy in charge of nuclear forces recently got in trouble for saying he would not allow the President to start a nuclear war if it wasn't legal.

He didn't say he wouldn't enact FFvC's orders, just that if the conditions of nuclear force had not been met, he would work with the President to figure out what they could legally do. No atrocities or war crimes, sort of thing.
MAN, the flak he got for that, as what the conservatives HEARD was that he was a peace-loving democrat who wouldn't follow orders from the commander in chief, who knows all and understand the law better than a general, etc.

So there is someone in the chain who CAN say, no we don't do that because Kim tweeted your dick size, sir....

 

[BH]

I think the leaders of any country that are first to send nukes off forfeit their authority and the public and remaining military should take whoever was responsible for the orders to fire and hang them high.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Whoever it was that pushed the button is going to get quite a reaming.

I think that whoever designed the system is the one who should get the reaming. Someone accidentally clicking the wrong button is a thing that happens and any system should be designed with that knowledge in mind. A little popup box saying "Are you SURE you want to alert the entire state of Hawaii that there's an incoming ballistic missile?" adds about one second to the response time in the event of an actual missile and stops a lot of false alerts.

As it is, the next time that alert pops up, most people will treat it with the same severity as hearing a car alarm. Nobody hears a car alarm and thinks "Oh shit, somebody's car is getting broken into. I should call the police". They think "Oh shit, some asshole accidentally triggered their car alarm and is annoying me because of their incompetence".

Also, ya. Fuck Trump.

 

[thebeave]

Whoever it was that pushed the button is going to get quite a reaming.

I think that whoever designed the system is the one who should get the reaming. Someone accidentally clicking the wrong button is a thing that happens and any system should be designed with that knowledge in mind. A little popup box saying "Are you SURE you want to alert the entire state of Hawaii that there's an incoming ballistic missile?" adds about one second to the response time in the event of an actual missile and stops a lot of false alerts.

As it is, the next time that alert pops up, most people will treat it with the same severity as hearing a car alarm. Nobody hears a car alarm and thinks "Oh shit, somebody's car is getting broken into. I should call the police". They think "Oh shit, some asshole accidentally triggered their car alarm and is annoying me because of their incompetence".

Also, ya. Fuck Trump.

Its my understanding that there was a pop-up box asking to confirm that you really want to do this. And instead of clicking No, he clicked, wrongly, Yes. That's why they say he made two mistakes in sending the message. I could see that happening. I'm so used to hitting Yes on such pop-ups, that I have done the exact same thing myself that his guy did. In fact, years ago I wrote a software program where I included that "Are you sure you want to delete this data" pop-up. I was demonstrating the program (to show my boss how "dummy proof" it really was), using real data on a real test, to my boss and, right in front of him, I clicked the Yes button without really thinking it through and deleted the data. We both turned red, and looked at each other with a "Holy Shit!" expression. It was pretty embarrassing, but fortunately, we just had lost 20 minutes of time and had to redo that particular test. It didn't result in people pissing in their pants, jumping in a manhole and calling their friend back home to delete the porn history on their browser calling home to say goodbye to their loved ones, luckily.

I think they're doing the right thing by getting two people involved in the process.

 

[ronburgundy]

Speaking of idiots pressing dangerous buttons, it is absurd and seems unconstitutional that the US president can order a nuclear launch without the approval of any other person. Such a launch is clearly a declaration of war that should require Congress. Yet, the president can unilaterally give an order any second and anyone who doesn't obey it is a criminal.

Never in history has a US president been as mentally unstable and likely to launch such an attack on a personal whim, nor been so likely to completely disregard his military advisors out of infantile egoism. Thus, never has the need been greater to change this procedure to be in line with clear constitutional intent.

Well the problem with requiring Congressional approval is that, unlike wars of the eighteenth century, when mobilisation took weeks before any actual fighting started, a nuclear exchange could be over (and your ability to retaliate destroyed) within a few minutes.

By the time an incoming strike is detected, confirmed, and reported to POTUS, he only has at best maybe ten minutes to order a response; you couldn't get Congress to decide on a tea-break in less than a few days.

The situation for a US first strike is not quite so time critical, but if it's a decapitation strike against a nuclear armed enemy, its success is dependent upon secrecy, so telling a few hundred Representatives and Senators well in advance is a recipe for disaster - even if none are traitors in themselves, it's a poor idea to rely on them all being both intelligent enough and calm enough not to accidentally let the cat out of the bag, and an even worse idea to assume that their staff and families will either remain out of the loop, or keep their mouths shut. The temptation to tell your family and friends to get out of town, if you know a nuclear war is imminent would be immense, and in a situation that is sufficiently unstable as to have POTUS considering a first strike, any inkling of this would be enough to provoke an preemptive strike by the enemy.

TL;DR Nuclear War doesn't allow enough time to consult congress.

Having a two or three man authority might work though.

Valid points, although it is a matter of relative risks. Under Trump the risk of him ordering an unwarranted launch that triggers a counter-launch against us has become higher relative to the risk of us being attacked and needed to respond (although Trump has also increased the odds of us being attacked).

I seem to recall there were discussions around here during the election about this. Some people were considering voting for Trump (or not voting for Hillary) just to "shake things up" or because "Hillary is just as bad". It was pointed out to them that his obvious emotional immaturity and mental instability made giving him "the button" an unacceptable risk. Their rationalization was that it would require too many others to obey his orders and they would refuse. This, of course, ignores the obvious fact that most of the people in those positions got their by a life of mindless obedience and are unwilling and incapable of thinking for themselves or doing anything but following orders.
We definitely need at least a couple other people who must unanimously agree with the President, and they should be completely outside the military command and not a member of the Presidents political party.

 

[ZiprHead]

The guy that hit the wrong button has been "temporarily reassigned."