Health eating isn't always healthy

[bilby]

The weight gain was a given since he increased his calories and the "food" reduced his energy level and he did less.

The issue is the liver damage.

People that gain weight don't necessarily have liver damage.

No doubt there was an effect on the liver. How could there not have been. Any diet that is exclusively heavy on the fat, salt and sugar will do this for the vast majority of the population...

So the McDonalds did cause the liver damage, if what you say is true.

Sure.

But unless he provides some evidence, we don't know if what he says is true.

Right now, all we have is the unsupported word of a person who resorts to mischaracterising the positions of others when politely asked to back up his claims.

Plus a shoddily performed experiment with a sample size of one; a number of variables; and no control, which was presented as a movie by Morgan Spurlock. That's not evidence; it's entertainment.

Supersize Me is evidence that McDonalds food is harmful in the same way that Terminator 2 - Judgement Day is evidence that Skynet is a risk to human life.

 

[steve_bank]

Everyone who would eat regularly at MD or feed the family on MD and Dominoes pizza raise their hands.

If no, on what do you base your choice. If yes is it because you doubt the accumulated scientific-medical opinions?

Considering this is a science thread, on what do any of you base your diet? Be specific.

 

[skepticalbip]

Everyone who would eat regularly at MD or feed the family on MD and Dominoes pizza raise their hands.

Personally, I think someone would be damned hard pressed to find anyone who eats only at McD and/or Dominoes. This sorta points to the absurdity of some of anti-McD rants. Occasionally eating something (non-poisonous) that does not fit into the mandates of the "health food" police is not a danger to one's health.

If no, on what do you base your choice. If yes is it because you doubt the accumulated scientific-medical opinions?

My answer would be a definite no. I base my choice on what I happen to feel like eating and what is available at the time.

Considering this is a science thread, on what do any of you base your diet? Be specific.

As I said, I base my diet on what I happen to feel like eating whenever I feel hungry - certainly not a "scientifically approved" diet plan.

Specifically? My choice based on food urges vary between; sea food, Chinese food, country cooking (lots of vegies), Mexican food, Italian food, sometimes a cheese burger or chili dog and fries, etc.

 

[Philos]

Folks,

The relation between food consumption and body weight is a mystery to me, outside of famines and concentration camps of course.

A.

 

[skepticalbip]

Folks,

The relation between food consumption and body weight is a mystery to me, outside of famines and concentration camps of course.

A.

Maybe the problem is that too many have been convinced that body weight is solely dependent on the food consumed. Food is only one of the determiners. The determiners of body mass, along with the kind and amount of food consumed, are the individual's level of physical activity, the individual's metabolism, genetics, and likely other factors I have no clue about.

For example, a couch potato would become obese eating only a small fraction of the food consumed by a marathon runner who has almost no body fat.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It was a documentary "Supersize Me". And it was entertaining but far more.

All Spurlock ate was McDonalds.

He quickly gained weight, lost energy, and his liver enzyme values were rising indicating liver damage. His physician advised him to stop.

Very serious stuff.

He quickly gained weight because he was eating 5000 calories/day. Don't blame McDonalds for that.

The weight gain was a given since he increased his calories and the "food" reduced his energy level and he did less.

The issue is the liver damage.

People that gain weight don't necessarily have liver damage.

That's an incredible weight gain, though--what happens with ordinary weight gain doesn't say what happens when it's that extreme.

 

[steve_bank]

Fat is an evolutionary survival trait. Small critters like birds have to eat contiguously in winter. Fat is not just under the skin, organs have localized fat reserves. When you take un more energy than you need over time glucose triggers fat production.

We are not designed to eat 3 balanced meals a day. As you get older and less active it is harder to eat 3 meals a day and not put on weight. In my 20s I ate anything and everything and did not put on weight. I did physical labor, and walked or rode a bike when I could. I could eat a pile of cookies with a quart of milk.
I've watched a number of PBS shows by credentialed doctors who have practices dealing with obesity. There is not iron clad agreement.

One claims it is almost all food types that cause fat and little depends on exercise. He says you can eat as many calories you want of certain foods. Another said the opposite, exercise is far more important than what you eat.

The first doctor claimed success in many patients and seemed to ignore thermodynamics, or energy balance. He did not cite any science but said he drew a conclusion from data.

From experience I am 50/50 on diet and exercise. Highly refined carbs can create spikes in glucose that can trigger fat. My current GP agrees.

I read a study on longshoreman done before container ships and high levels of cargo mechanization. They pulled, pushed, and lifted all day. They had lower levels of heart disease.

The idea that eating fats causes fat has gone away. An early study is now considered flawed, it was the genesis of the low fat craze. Eggs were good, than bad, now good. Medical science evolves.

When loosing weight if you maintain too high an energy deficit the body goes into a kind of power down mode making it harder to burn fat.

It is counter intuitive, if you exercise daily t6o loose weight you may end having to eat more calories to loose weight. Point being the body is a complex feedback system that automatically adjusts to long term conditions.

NIH has an online calculator that takes your weight loss goal and time, an estimate of level of daily exercise, and tells you how many calories you need per day. It is surprising.

 

[steve_bank]

As to liver and diet, non alcohol related fatty liver.

https://www.liverfoundation.org/for...ty-liver-disease/#1503448171806-2e880f76-6d24

 

[Playball40]

The brain is mostly fat.

Fat is an evolutionary survival trait. Small critters like birds have to eat contiguously in winter. Fat is not just under the skin, organs have localized fat reserves. When you take un more energy than you need over time glucose triggers fat production.

We are not designed to eat 3 balanced meals a day. As you get older and less active it is harder to eat 3 meals a day and not put on weight. In my 20s I ate anything and everything and did not put on weight. I did physical labor, and walked or rode a bike when I could. I could eat a pile of cookies with a quart of milk.
I've watched a number of PBS shows by credentialed doctors who have practices dealing with obesity. There is not iron clad agreement.

One claims it is almost all food types that cause fat and little depends on exercise. He says you can eat as many calories you want of certain foods. Another said the opposite, exercise is far more important than what you eat.

The first doctor claimed success in many patients and seemed to ignore thermodynamics, or energy balance. He did not cite any science but said he drew a conclusion from data.

From experience I am 50/50 on diet and exercise. Highly refined carbs can create spikes in glucose that can trigger fat. My current GP agrees.

I read a study on longshoreman done before container ships and high levels of cargo mechanization. They pulled, pushed, and lifted all day. They had lower levels of heart disease.

The idea that eating fats causes fat has gone away. An early study is now considered flawed, it was the genesis of the low fat craze. Eggs were good, than bad, now good. Medical science evolves.

When loosing weight if you maintain too high an energy deficit the body goes into a kind of power down mode making it harder to burn fat.

It is counter intuitive, if you exercise daily t6o loose weight you may end having to eat more calories to loose weight. Point being the body is a complex feedback system that automatically adjusts to long term conditions.

NIH has an online calculator that takes your weight loss goal and time, an estimate of level of daily exercise, and tells you how many calories you need per day. It is surprising.

 

[Playball40]

Folks,

The relation between food consumption and body weight is a mystery to me, outside of famines and concentration camps of course.

A.

And you would think that getting those that were starved in concentration camps healthy would be easy. Just increase their food............. Sadly, this is the farthest thing from the truth. Once the brain has been starved, it can take years to correct. Sometimes it can't be corrected at all. And a starving brain may be hard to identify (certainly cannot tell just by looking at someone). And yet, we in western society, do this to ourselves frequently with one diet after another, damaging their actual ability to be healthy each time. We brutalize our bodies and our brains all for some bullshit, unproven concept of the 'perfect weight'. There is no such thing. What is perfect for me, is not perfect for you even if our heights are identical

But it's ok, because it continues to make the diet industry, the health insurance industry and the food industry rich rich rich.......and that's all that matters in our society these days anyway.

 

[Playball40]

This is just one of the observations of the Minnesota Starvation Experiment and is the point I am discussing when I say we all have a pre-set 'genetic weight'. Even today, people do not want to accept this fact.

3. Results of this 1944 study challenge the popular and contemporary notion that body weight is easily altered by "willpower,” and demonstrate a human’s strong propensity to defend a particular weight range.

Many of the symptoms observed can be seen even in small decreases in our energy input. This does not have to be the result of total starvation/food restriction.

http://www.rhondahelp.com/sites/def...niversity of Minnesota Starvation Study_1.pdf

http://archive.wphna.org/wp-content...-Mad-Science-Museum-Ancel-Keys-Starvation.pdf

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

This is just one of the observations of the Minnesota Starvation Experiment and is the point I am discussing when I say we all have a pre-set 'genetic weight'. Even today, people do not want to accept this fact.

3. Results of this 1944 study challenge the popular and contemporary notion that body weight is easily altered by "willpower,” and demonstrate a human’s strong propensity to defend a particular weight range.

Many of the symptoms observed can be seen even in small decreases in our energy input. This does not have to be the result of total starvation/food restriction.

http://www.rhondahelp.com/sites/def...niversity of Minnesota Starvation Study_1.pdf

http://archive.wphna.org/wp-content...-Mad-Science-Museum-Ancel-Keys-Starvation.pdf

I don't understand the point of this post. Are you saying that on the spectrum of healthy eating there are only two choices, starvation and obesity?

You seem to be arguing that I should just eat whatever I want, whenever I want, in any quantities I want and that my preset genetic weight is gonna make everything okay. And that if I in any way restrict my desires then I am essentially practicing starvation and harming my health, which is bad.

Should I also smoke and drink alcohol to excess and simply trust that my genetic predisposition relative to these inputs will make everything okay?

 

[bilby]

This is just one of the observations of the Minnesota Starvation Experiment and is the point I am discussing when I say we all have a pre-set 'genetic weight'. Even today, people do not want to accept this fact.

3. Results of this 1944 study challenge the popular and contemporary notion that body weight is easily altered by "willpower,” and demonstrate a human’s strong propensity to defend a particular weight range.

Many of the symptoms observed can be seen even in small decreases in our energy input. This does not have to be the result of total starvation/food restriction.

http://www.rhondahelp.com/sites/def...niversity of Minnesota Starvation Study_1.pdf

http://archive.wphna.org/wp-content...-Mad-Science-Museum-Ancel-Keys-Starvation.pdf

I don't understand the point of this post. Are you saying that on the spectrum of healthy eating there are only two choices, starvation and obesity?

You seem to be arguing that I should just eat whatever I want, whenever I want, in any quantities I want and that my preset genetic weight is gonna make everything okay. And that if I in any way restrict my desires then I am essentially practicing starvation and harming my health, which is bad.

Should I also smoke and drink alcohol to excess and simply trust that my genetic predisposition relative to these inputs will make everything okay?

Well, you are pretty much guaranteed to be dead in a hundred years time either way; and some would argue that a heart attack is preferable to decades of declining health; So it's far from obvious that you are making the best choice by NOT eating, drinking, and smoking whatever you like.

There is a scene in Woody Allen's Sleeper where he is told that his family, friends, and everyone he ever knew have been dead for hundreds of years, to which he responds "But they all ate health food!"

Orthorexia is an eating disorder that is becoming increasingly common in the developed world.