Heart Breaking Video of Men Doing Ship-Breaking Jobs. What do the Feminists on this board think?

[ruby sparks]

I can not, in good conscience, claim that the men of Bangladesh doing ship-breaking jobs for minuscule pay are privileged.

It's dead simple. Just because men are in some ways unprivileged (in Bangladesh for instance) does not mean that there is no male privilege in Bangladesh.

 

[bilby]

And the prize for 'Most blatantly and obviously incorrect claim on the Internet' goes to:

One thing's for sure, there is no male privilege in Bangladesh.

I can not, in good conscience, claim that the men of Bangladesh doing ship-breaking jobs for minuscule pay are privileged.

You have an insane definition of "privilege" then. Next thing you'll tell me is that children who used to work in factories during the industrial revolution were "privileged children."

Remember that protocol for ship evacuation is "women and children first." If there was male privilege, women would be the last ones allowed on the lifeboats.

As this "response" bears no relation whatsoever to the post of mine that it quotes, it is very clear that you are not, in fact, engaged in a discussion, but rather a monologue.

That being the case, you require no further input from others, and I strongly recommend that all others respect your desire for monologue, and desist from responding further to your posts, as shall I.

 

[laughing dog]

FIFY

Black women have been doing shitty dirty backbreaking jobs in the US for centuries.

Even though that's a fair point, and a worthwhile distinction, what I initially said in that post still remains true, that men don't have a monopoly on privileges, that women have and have had privileges that men don't and didn't. Even black women were not, for example, routinely conscripted to go and shoot people and be shot at, for example, and dangerous doesn't come much more dangerous than that.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with "privilege": black women did not demand or ask for or propose to or construct society to avoid conscription. In fact, their denial of conscription for women was due to sexism.

 

[ruby sparks]

Which has absolutely nothing to do with "privilege": black women did not demand or ask for or propose to or construct society to avoid conscription.

A privilege doesn't have to be asked for. I didn't request my white, straight, male, 'western' ones, I just got them by being born that way.

 

[laughing dog]

Which has absolutely nothing to do with "privilege": black women did not demand or ask for or propose to or construct society to avoid conscription.

A privilege doesn't have to be asked for. I didn't request my white, straight, male, 'western' ones, I just got them by being born that way.

Using your logic, slaves in the US had the privilege of not voting and paying taxes, and males have the privilege of not getting pregnant. Seems to me to make the notion of "privilege" rather meaningless.

 

[ruby sparks]

Which has absolutely nothing to do with "privilege": black women did not demand or ask for or propose to or construct society to avoid conscription.

A privilege doesn't have to be asked for. I didn't request my white, straight, male, 'western' ones, I just got them by being born that way.

Using your logic, slaves in the US had the privilege of not voting and paying taxes, and males have the privilege of not getting pregnant. Seems to me to make the notion of "privilege" rather meaningless.

My statement is just an obvious fact about privilege. It does not have to be requested by the holder, whether they be male or female or whatever. I, for example, get most if not indeed all of mine without having asked for them.

Furthermore, I can't see how that has the implications you are making. They look to me like non-sequiturs.

First, I am talking about socially-conferred privileges. A man getting pregnant, for instance, is not that.

Second, not being expected to go to fight in a war is/was a significant, socially-conferred privilege, part of the 'traditional social contract' to protect women (possibly because the eggs of an individual woman are very valuable to the species and more valuable than an individual man's sperm, but we don't need to get into that speculation). That stands on its own and is extremely non-trivial. Analogies with slaves not being asked to pay taxes, whether they be called privileges or not, do not necessarily compare well and so do not necessarily logically or otherwise follow from what I said.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Which has absolutely nothing to do with "privilege": black women did not demand or ask for or propose to or construct society to avoid conscription.

A privilege doesn't have to be asked for. I didn't request my white, straight, male, 'western' ones, I just got them by being born that way.

Using your logic, slaves in the US had the privilege of not voting and paying taxes, and males have the privilege of not getting pregnant. Seems to me to make the notion of "privilege" rather meaningless.

I think it comes down to the worst type of privilege is the one that you benefit from most... and don't even notice it.

 

[laughing dog]

My statement is just an obvious fact about privilege. It does not have to be requested by the holder, whether they be male or female or whatever. I, for example, get most if not indeed all of mine without having asked for them.

First, the privileges you received as a male were socially constructed by men for men. Men, as a group, conferred them via society. So, in essence, men did ask for them.

Furthermore, I can't see how that has the implications you are making. They look to me like non-sequiturs.

Instead of looking, try to think more deeply about them.

Second, not being expected to go to fight in a war is/was a significant, socially-conferred privilege, part of the 'traditional social contract' to protect women (possibly because the eggs of an individual woman are very valuable to the species and more valuable than an individual man's sperm, but we don't need to get into that speculation). That stands on its own and is extremely non-trivial.

First, that "social contract " was not a contract because women had no voice in making that contract. Second, the notion that the "social contract" was somehow instituted to help preserve the species is rather contrived. Third, a more importantly, the notion of "_____ privilege" typically does not refer to a specific advantage for the member of group _____ but the totality of those advantages.

Analogies with slaves not being asked to pay taxes, whether they be called privileges or not, do not necessarily compare well and so do not necessarily logically or otherwise follow from what I said.

They do follow logically, since slavery was socially constructed and maintained. I agree that those are not really privileges, but they meet your implied definition. Which suggests to me that there is something lacking in your definition.

 

[jab]

Well, at least you've moved up from the YouTube comments section.

Progress?

I'll send you some magical brownies if you can link to one feminist that said:

There's something deeply wrong with feminists saying that it's OK to leave the hard dirty jobs to the men while they only fight for the cushy air conditioned office jobs.

Because the majority of them do not fight for those rights. They go to the women's march and wear stupid pink pussy hats instead.

What I was pointing out is that male privilege has been dismantled. If it was only men who got the cushy office jobs and the women had the back breaking labor jobs that the majority of men do, then you can argue men are privileged. But, since the majority of back breaking labor jobs go to men, there is no such thing as male privilege. It's a fantasy concocted by feminists.

Working for low pay in crappy conditions does not equal privilege. It's the complete opposite.

Male privilege has not been dismantled. Nor has class privilege. Nor has race-based privilege. In noting that the most privileged people in society are almost all men, some bourgeois feminists have forgotten that many man are not as privileged as these women's bros and hubbies and daddies, much less as privileged as the men of the oligarchy.
And, if women are being discriminated against in applying for the ship-related jobs in the OP, activists who support equal rights should be looking into that.

 

[blastula]

Has Half explained why feminists need to say anything about the video?

Do I even need to ask?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Has Half explained why feminists need to say anything about the video?

Do I even need to ask?

It's the same reason that the anti-immigration folks spend all their time protesting outside of farms for their right to pick vegetables.

 

[ruby sparks]

So, in essence, men did ask for them.

Privileges, beings things that relate to groups and individual persons, are not things that necessarily need to be requested and often aren't. For example (again) I did not ask for mine, I was just given them after being born. It's that simple.

 

[Toni]

Anybody think to look up the maternal mortality rate for Bangladesh? It's really improving: In 2019 it's only 153 per 100,000 live births. If one includes all births and all maternity related deaths, the rate goes up.

That's significantly more deaths related to giving birth than deaths in the ship breaking industry, as dangerous as that industry is.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Anybody think to look up the maternal mortality rate for Bangladesh? It's really improving: In 2019 it's only 153 per 100,000 live births. If one includes all births and all maternity related deaths, the rate goes up.

That's significantly more deaths related to giving birth than deaths in the ship breaking industry, as dangerous as that industry is.

At least having a baby is more of a choice (short of rape of course) than taking the only job available to you lest you and your family starve.

 

[Toni]

Anybody think to look up the maternal mortality rate for Bangladesh? It's really improving: In 2019 it's only 153 per 100,000 live births. If one includes all births and all maternity related deaths, the rate goes up.

That's significantly more deaths related to giving birth than deaths in the ship breaking industry, as dangerous as that industry is.

At least having a baby is more of a choice (short of rape of course) than taking the only job available to you lest you and your family starve.

I rarely have reason to credit you with much of a sense of humor, however macabre. Well done.

 

[laughing dog]

So, in essence, men did ask for them.

Privileges, beings things that relate to groups and individual persons, are not things that necessarily need to be requested and often aren't. For example (again) I did not ask for mine, I was just given them after being born. It's that simple.

We agree- your response is simple in that it ignored the main point of my response that your conveniently omitted. Whether you asked for it or not is not relevant - the "social contract" you cite was designed, implemented and maintained by men. Which means that men did in essence ask for it, even if you did not.