Heaven = A Dog's Life

[Ramaraksha]

I do believe that most religions are just ideas of people - there is zero evidence of any fantasy lands in the sky where believers get to sit on their collective butts and enjoy
Hinduism has a famous saying - Tat Tvam Asi - meaning - You Are That - ie you will be what you want to be. What do people seeking heaven hope for? A life of ease, nothing to do, a Sugar Daddy who will take good care of them, no more worries, just sit back and enjoy!
There are basically describing a Dog's life - the owner takes care of him, feeds him, caters to him, the dog does nothing all day, if a cat, it can sleep most of the day away, they have no worries, they just enjoy life!
To me that is what they will get - reincarnation applies to all of us. If you don't want life, you will not get one. But if you do want a life of ease, Heaven - then you will be reborn as a life form that will give you what you want. A dog for example, or a cat or any household pet. Or even a Tree, a tiny bug, or a blade of grass - all life forms that have a life of ease

 

[Keith&Co.]

Can you offer a reason to believe this is what happens? Or are you just preaching?

 

[fast]

edited out. I goofed

 

[Ramaraksha]

Please re-read the opening lines - it could be that these are just ideas, but we may not know - these things could happen. What Tat Tvam Asi is saying that we become what we hope for - we wanted a human life and so we were born this way, now that we have had a taste of it, maybe an easier life would suit us better
So maybe the life of a tree, a plant, a but or even a blade of grass where life is much easier with little pain or suffering might be the choice

 

[Keith&Co.]

Please re-read the opening lines -

My question is from the opening. You start with 'I believe.' Why? What makes you adopt this belief, rather than treat it as a mere plot bunny?
Because you have a reason it is real, or because you just want it to be real?

So maybe the life of a tree, a plant, a but or even a blade of grass where life is much easier with little pain or suffering might be the choice

Seems like more wishful thinking, really.

Do burrowing insects make a tree itch? Does the woodpecker looking for them feel like someone scratching the itch? Or does that feel more like lancing a boil?
In winter, when the sap stops flowing, does that hurt? Is losing a leaf like hair falling out or like limbs torn off?

How do you begin to assess the level of suffering or lack of suffering in a tree?

 

[laughing dog]

Lots of dogs have lousy lives - beatings, etc....

 

[fast]

Lots of dogs have lousy lives - beatings, etc....

And one is laughing

 

[Angry Floof]

I would like to live out my eternity on board the star ship Enterprise.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Lots of dogs have lousy lives - beatings, etc....

Ya, but they can lick their own balls, so it all evens out.

 

[Colonel Sanders]

Lots of dogs have lousy lives - beatings, etc....

Not my dog. He's has it great. Well, except for the no testicles/never getting laid thing. That's gotta suck. He also seems to suffer tremendously whenever I eat. But other than that, he has an acre to roam around on and apparently lots of things to bark at. And when he gets he tired of that he comes inside, drinks some water, eats, then lays down for the next five hours either sleeping or chewing on whatever fancies him. He has hambones, shoes, and an affinity for empty toilet paper rolls. I guess it's Heaven for him. The cat even tries to nurse on his dong sometimes. Fucking weirdos.

Oh yeah, the OP. Whatever. I like the idea of reincarnation better than Hell and I see no harm in believing in it. There's no proof of it, but it seems better than the one-shot rule Christianity has going on.

 

[Keith&Co.]

. I like the idea of reincarnation better than Hell and I see no harm in believing in it.

I don't, either.
But, every submarine patrol I ever made, there comes a point where the discussion turns to the afterlife.

Sometimes someone is rather insistent about what Is Going To Happen, but most of these conversations are 'It would be neat if...'
"You know, it'd be neat to be reincarnated as Jennifer Love Hewitt's bra."
"It'd be neat if Heaven was entirely MADE out of cheeseburgers."
"It would be neat if people that Killed in the name of their gods were reincarnated as the guys that clean the sauna at the leper colony."
"I'd love it if the next world was one big ocean and you could surf around the entire equator without stopping unless you wanted to."
"I hope Muslims get virgins in the afterlife. And that sub sailors get 72 Playboy Playmates."

All attractive enough, I guess. It just seems like there's a bit of a leap from 'this would be neat' to 'I believe that...'

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Reincarnation IS real. It just isn't reincarnation. Who here thinks they weren't an insect at one time, or a tree, or a dog turd? Hell, in the life we're living now we've been all those things. Probably in a single day the atoms that were part of you went through being part of an insect, some microorganism(s), feces, and who knows what else, maybe two hundred other people separated by hundreds or thousands of miles. You really don't need religious woo to have an awareness of how physical reality operates, though for the unschooled it might substitute well enough.

And yah, some dogs have crappy lives. But that is a good analogy for heaven. I'll have to remember it in future conversations.

 

[Angry Floof]

Reincarnation IS real. It just isn't reincarnation. Who here thinks they weren't an insect at one time, or a tree, or a dog turd? Hell, in the life we're living now we've been all those things. Probably in a single day the atoms that were part of you went through being part of an insect, some microorganism(s), feces, and who knows what else, maybe two hundred other people separated by hundreds or thousands of miles. You really don't need religious woo to have an awareness of how physical reality operates, though for the unschooled it might substitute well enough.

And yah, some dogs have crappy lives. But that is a good analogy for heaven. I'll have to remember it in future conversations.

This is my view of reincarnation, a naturalist view, not a "person" coming back in another form. As far as I can tell, human ideas of personhood, no matter how real and solid the experience may seem to us, just doesn't translate literally to molecules and processes of nature like decay and growth.

 

[bilby]

Reincarnation IS real. It just isn't reincarnation. Who here thinks they weren't an insect at one time, or a tree, or a dog turd? Hell, in the life we're living now we've been all those things. Probably in a single day the atoms that were part of you went through being part of an insect, some microorganism(s), feces, and who knows what else, maybe two hundred other people separated by hundreds or thousands of miles. You really don't need religious woo to have an awareness of how physical reality operates, though for the unschooled it might substitute well enough.

And yah, some dogs have crappy lives. But that is a good analogy for heaven. I'll have to remember it in future conversations.

This is my view of reincarnation, a naturalist view, not a "person" coming back in another form. As far as I can tell, human ideas of personhood, no matter how real and solid the experience may seem to us, just doesn't translate literally to molecules and processes of nature like decay and growth.

A person isn't atoms and molecules; A person is a dynamic pattern, formed within a sea of atoms and molecules. Few of the atoms that are part of me today have been part of the pattern for more than a handful of years; bits are constantly added and subtracted from 'me', but I persist - until I die.

Death is the failure to sustain that pattern - the majority of the pattern supports the maintenance of the minority part that is the processes in the brain*, and when that part of the pattern which calls itself 'me' is sufficiently disrupted as to be unable to recover its basic form, I am said to be 'dead'. What happens after death? To me, as a person, nothing can happen after death by definition - because while I am aware, I am alive. My awareness depends on a hugely complex dynamic equilibrium; a set of more-or-less stable patterns formed by the atoms that flow through me.

Unless all of physics and chemistry is deeply wrong, that awareness cannot survive the physical destruction of my brain; and unless I am unfortunate enough to meet a violent death, will not even survive as long as the gross structures of the brain itself, which will decay only after my awareness is long gone.

Lots of things will happen after my death; but none of them will happen to me.










*Which symbiotically supports the rest; For example, the brain tells the heart how to beat, and the heart supplies the brain with oxygenated blood; each part of the pattern supports and is supported by the others.

 

[Angry Floof]

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XRd8Hp8v2w[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Ramaraksha]

My question is from the opening. You start with 'I believe.' Why? What makes you adopt this belief, rather than treat it as a mere plot bunny?
Because you have a reason it is real, or because you just want it to be real?

So maybe the life of a tree, a plant, a but or even a blade of grass where life is much easier with little pain or suffering might be the choice

Seems like more wishful thinking, really.
Do burrowing insects make a tree itch? Does the woodpecker looking for them feel like someone scratching the itch? Or does that feel more like lancing a boil?In winter, when the sap stops flowing, does that hurt? Is losing a leaf like hair falling out or like limbs torn off?
How do you begin to assess the level of suffering or lack of suffering in a tree?

These are all religious ideas - so far there is zero evidence for God, heaven, hell and what not. I do believe that Science has yet to explain Consciousness - the soul. I do believe that we as souls desired to be born human and so we are. But for most human life has been difficult, they want an easier life and so they shall
As for pain for a tree, i believe you are getting a bit emotional and transferring human feelings to them. Pain is a product of evolution - we have pain so that we may feel it and save ourselves from danger - ie fall asleep and a wild animal starts munching on us or touch something that is burning etc, we feel pain we can run away
A Tree cannot run away from danger - i believe that a tree does not feel pain as we do - otherwise it would be in constant pain from all the attacks. The lower the life form the less the pain.
Take a dog for example - does it feel physical pain? yes surely. But does it feel the pain of passing of loved ones as we do? A bit but not as much as we do, otherwise it would not survive. An eagle will feed its dead offspring to its remaining offspring - harsh life does not allow these lower creatures to have feelings as we do
And as we go lower - a bug, a tree, a blade of grass - pain totally disappears - it has to, otherwise they would not survive

- - - Updated - - -

Lots of dogs have lousy lives - beatings, etc....

Yes that is the chance one takes - reincarnation is misunderstood - you can't specify an exact life - all one is asking for is a life of ease and the lower animals deal with less pain than we humans - there are no guarantees - only religions can give guarantees - which are totally fake

- - - Updated - - -

I would like to live out my eternity on board the star ship Enterprise.

Reincarnation doesn't work that way - you can't specify an exact life. But you can choose reincarnation as a human and keep doing it and hopefully unless we destroy ourselves, if we continue to progress your dream will come true

 

[Ramaraksha]

Reincarnation IS real. It just isn't reincarnation. Who here thinks they weren't an insect at one time, or a tree, or a dog turd? Hell, in the life we're living now we've been all those things. Probably in a single day the atoms that were part of you went through being part of an insect, some microorganism(s), feces, and who knows what else, maybe two hundred other people separated by hundreds or thousands of miles. You really don't need religious woo to have an awareness of how physical reality operates, though for the unschooled it might substitute well enough.

And yah, some dogs have crappy lives. But that is a good analogy for heaven. I'll have to remember it in future conversations.

Reincarnation is misunderstood a bit - people think they can come back in an exact way - it doesn't work that way. You can hope for an easier life and one is provided - ie reborn as a tree or a bug or a blade of grass is even better - these lower forms face no pain at all! Heaven!

 

[Angry Floof]

"Souls are made of stories." - Dr. Who

 

[Ramaraksha]

"Souls are made of stories." - Dr. Who

I grant you that there is no evidence for the soul but Science has yet to explain consciousness - i seriously doubt that Big Blue will one day wake up and realize it is just a big box being manipulated by carbon beings

 

[Keith&Co.]

I do believe that Science has yet to explain Consciousness - the soul.

Another mystical-sounding but illogical leap. We have a consciousness, give or take. Why equate that with a soul?

I do believe that we as souls desired to be born human and so we are.

Why? Why do you believe that?

But for most human life has been difficult, they want an easier life and so they shall

So, after a hard life, we'll be drawn to pick an easier life the next time? But then, why did we have the hard life in the first place? Why did we pick a hard life? Why didn't we pick an easy life the first time?
And if we had some sort of logical reason for the hard life in the first place, wouldn't that reason still apply for the next life?

As for pain for a tree, i believe you are getting a bit emotional and transferring human feelings to them.

YOU are the one who started describing the tree's life in human terms. And dogs. And grass.

Now you're complaining that your statement was not accepted uncritically.