Here we go again ...

[dismal]

It has nothing to do with race. If you pull a gun on police when they confront you you are likely to get shot, white, black or purple.
I think the protesters are racist because they react only to the shootee being black, and not the facts of the shooting.

If the citizens of Chicago actually trusted the cops not to lie about the circumstances of a shooting then their protests in this case would be a lot harder to understand. But since we know of a couple of recent high profile cases where the cops straight-up lied to cover for a murderer in their ranks, it doesn't take much brainwork to figure it.

Chicagoans know the cops lie to them about why they kill people. And they don't like it.

Would you trust a Chicago cop not to plant incriminating evidence on a dead guy they just killed, when you know they have a history of doing exactly that?

Well, given the video - it appears what the cops did here was to plant a gun, holster and extra clip on the guy before they shot him. He probably was taking the gun out to say "wtf, how did this gun get here?"

 

[barbos]

Video was not released yet. Police shot the guy because he ran away while armed. Well, they thought he was armed. I wonder what is the success rate trying to outrun the police when they are shooting at you?

 

[Derec]

Well, given the video - it appears what the cops did here was to plant a gun, holster and extra clip on the guy before they shot him. He probably was taking the gun out to say "wtf, how did this gun get here?"

It was a book.

 

[dismal]

Video was not released yet. Police shot the guy because he ran away while armed. Well, they thought he was armed. I wonder what is the success rate trying to outrun the police when they are shooting at you?

Looks like it was out by post #3 here anyway.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So a gangbanger gets himself shot while holding a gun and protesters get angry at police who killed him? It is scum like Harith who are killing all those people in "Chiraq". They should be celebrating the police for taking the trash out!

I doubt the guy was a gangbanger--that gun was legally owned. However, it was not legally carried.

This looks like someone who panicked when caught by the cops (they spotted his gun, something that shouldn't happen if you're properly carrying concealed) and did something stupid.

- - - Updated - - -

If the citizens of Chicago actually trusted the cops not to lie about the circumstances of a shooting then their protests in this case would be a lot harder to understand. But since we know of a couple of recent high profile cases where the cops straight-up lied to cover for a murderer in their ranks, it doesn't take much brainwork to figure it.

The BLM agitators don't care about the truth. Dead black = wrong, period.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I just got back from a vacation from China and what struck me most was how little (compared to where I live in central US) the police even carry guns. Most of the cops I saw in Beijing were traffic cops that only had a blow horn to yell at people. They carried no guns at all, like they werent even needed. In fact the only guns I remember seeing were at the Panda exibit security check point at Chengdu.

While those traffic cops wear police uniforms I would not really call them police. Other than inside a police station (something we have seen frequently due to the registration requirement--as a simple tourist your hotel took care of that for you, staying with relatives we have to do it) I have not seen an unarmed cop in China.

Saw absolutely no riots, no graffiti, extremely clean streets, or no one ever getting shot. And felt very safe all the while I was there even with high density humanity. Felt much less like a police state than my own home in the US.

How do they do it?

Riots--not in areas tourists are likely to go.

Graffiti--I don't see gangbanger type graffiti but I've seen tons of marketing stuff that appears to be graffiti.

I do agree about the streets, they clean them more than we do. It's not like they don't litter!

I've never seen anyone shot over there, but I've never seen anyone shot here, either. You can't judge from the news, it's censored.

Safety:

1) We stay with relatives unless out of town. In every urban location we have stayed there has been concern about hiding my connection to the place because they're worried that my presence would mark them as a target for burglary or worse.

2) A bunch of us were walking back from a restaurant. I was talking with a niece--and she wanted to hurry up because she was concerned the situation was unsafe. My evaluation of the situation was that I would prefer to be inside in half an hour--but since we would be inside well before then I wasn't concerned. The shops were closed but there were still a lot of people about doing post-closing tasks.

Police--don't expect justice unless you can pay for it. A substantial sum is missing from a relative, the culprit is known. It would cost 5 figures to get the police to do their job.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

More importantly though, it's bothersome that such people somehow get chosen for martyrdom when in fact they're scumbags. Pull a gun on a cop, you're gonna get shot. Pull a gun on a cop following a chase, you're gonna shot multiple times. There's no sense in arguing this. In America, cops have guns, and there are 300,000,000 guns in private hands. A reasonable response to having a gun pointed at you is to point your gun at that person and shoot them first. It's perfectly legal and a complete defense. And that's not going to change. Maybe some 30 years down the road, but not anytime soon.

Anyway, pick better martyrs. Cops irresponsibly kill plenty of racial minorities every year.

I suspect this guy was simply stupid, not a scumbag. When bad guys are caught with contraband they often try to ditch it (and often get themselves caught that way--the cop didn't have enough to search them, but when they toss the drugs away now the cops have them) and I suspect that's what was going on here.

 

[Derec]

I doubt the guy was a gangbanger--that gun was legally owned. However, it was not legally carried.

Yeah, I misread a line in the article. My bad.

 

[Derec]

Video was not released yet. Police shot the guy because he ran away while armed. Well, they thought he was armed. I wonder what is the success rate trying to outrun the police when they are shooting at you?

It has been released for a while. You are conflating things though. He was stopped initially because they thought he was armed but later they not only confirmed that he was armed, but when he started running, he pulled the gun from the holster. That's what led to the shooting.

 

[Derec]

You might come across as much less racist if you didn’t automatically call any black victim of a police shooting a gang banger,

I didn't "automatically" call him that, I misread a line in the article, for which I already apologized. Unlike some on here, I can admit when I am wrong.
He still should not have pulled a gun while running from police. And the crowd should not have engaged in rioting.

Or if you posted about white victims of police shootings.

When a white person gets shot by police, that does not lead to riots where police get urine thrown at them.

Or, if you cannot find articles about white victims if police shootings, you asked yourself why that might be.

Actually about half of people shot by police are white. But those shootings do not lead to riots. When police shoot a black suspect they often do, as in this case.

I’m guessing you don’t really mind being called a racist because that feeds into your whole Poor Derec the victim narrative.

When I am falsely accused of racism that says way more about the left-wing radicals in here than about me. See the bogus accusations thrown at me on that "pedophilia" thread just because I dared correct Underseer on his use of "pedophilia".

- - - Updated - - -

And what about England?

Very strict gun laws.

- - - Updated - - -

Yet he is described as a gangbanger in the OP and the incident is described as occurring in "Chiraq".

I already apologized for misreading that part of the article. And Chiraq is a common slang for Chicago due to its high rate of violent crime, especially shootings and murders. There even was a Spike Lee joint by that name.

 

[Derec]

Well, a couple of high-profile murders...a couple of decades of sexual assault, forced confessions involving genital mutilation, a "black site" where people were held without access to lawyers, a habit of dropping people off in hostile territory for fun, a habit of disabling and sabotaging video and audio recording equipment...

Do you have citations for these things? In any case, they do not justify rioting, including throwing bottles filled with urine at police.
It does not justify jumping to conclusions and blaming police for every shooting of a black suspect, no matter the facts.

And since their video shows police escalating the situation, but does not explain when police began firing at Augustus,

It shows Harith (is that like Harris with a lisp?) resist police, run from them and pull a gun from his holster before he was shot.

and like Ferguson and Baton Rouge PDs before them they decided that mass violence was a appropriate response to nonviolent crowds...well, they're getting the scrutiny that they've brought on themselves.

Four police officers were injured. Bottles, some filled with urine, were thrown at police. That doesn't sound very much like "nonviolent crowds" ...

 

[Derec]

If the citizens of Chicago actually trusted the cops not to lie about the circumstances of a shooting then their protests in this case would be a lot harder to understand. But since we know of a couple of recent high profile cases where the cops straight-up lied to cover for a murderer in their ranks, it doesn't take much brainwork to figure it.

There is a video. Doesn't deter so-called "activists" from calling it "murder".

Would you trust a Chicago cop not to plant incriminating evidence on a dead guy they just killed, when you know they have a history of doing exactly that?

Did they fake the video too?

 

[Toni]

I didn't "automatically" call him that, I misread a line in the article, for which I already apologized. Unlike some on here, I can admit when I am wrong.
He still should not have pulled a gun while running from police. And the crowd should not have engaged in rioting.



When a white person gets shot by police, that does not lead to riots where police get urine thrown at them.

Or, if you cannot find articles about white victims if police shootings, you asked yourself why that might be.

Actually about half of people shot by police are white. But those shootings do not lead to riots. When police shoot a black suspect they often do, as in this case.

I’m guessing you don’t really mind being called a racist because that feeds into your whole Poor Derec the victim narrative.

When I am falsely accused of racism that says way more about the left-wing radicals in here than about me. See the bogus accusations thrown at me on that "pedophilia" thread just because I dared correct Underseer on his use of "pedophilia".

- - - Updated - - -

And what about England?

Very strict gun laws.

- - - Updated - - -

Yet he is described as a gangbanger in the OP and the incident is described as occurring in "Chiraq".

I already apologized for misreading that part of the article. And Chiraq is a common slang for Chicago due to its high rate of violent crime, especially shootings and murders. There even was a Spike Lee joint by that name.

Derec, it's more about if you were to be falsely accused of racism. Emphasis on if and falsely.

But you are hardly alone. Since you want to talk about Chicago, perhaps you'd be interested in the following:


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...n-shot-chicago-police-officer-dies/786067002/

A 2017 Justice Department review found Chicago officers used force nearly 10 times more in incidents involving black suspects than against white suspects. African-Americans were the subject of 80% of all police firearm uses and 81% of all Taser contact-stun uses between January 2011 and April 2016. Of incidents where use of force was used against a minor, 83% involved black children and 14% involved Latino children during the same time-period, the report notes.

Chicago has also spent about $709 million on settlements for police misconduct cases, according to a recent report from the Action Center on Race & the Economy.

- - - Updated - - -

I didn't "automatically" call him that, I misread a line in the article, for which I already apologized. Unlike some on here, I can admit when I am wrong.
He still should not have pulled a gun while running from police. And the crowd should not have engaged in rioting.



When a white person gets shot by police, that does not lead to riots where police get urine thrown at them.

Or, if you cannot find articles about white victims if police shootings, you asked yourself why that might be.

Actually about half of people shot by police are white. But those shootings do not lead to riots. When police shoot a black suspect they often do, as in this case.

I’m guessing you don’t really mind being called a racist because that feeds into your whole Poor Derec the victim narrative.

When I am falsely accused of racism that says way more about the left-wing radicals in here than about me. See the bogus accusations thrown at me on that "pedophilia" thread just because I dared correct Underseer on his use of "pedophilia".

- - - Updated - - -

And what about England?

Very strict gun laws.

- - - Updated - - -

Yet he is described as a gangbanger in the OP and the incident is described as occurring in "Chiraq".

I already apologized for misreading that part of the article. And Chiraq is a common slang for Chicago due to its high rate of violent crime, especially shootings and murders. There even was a Spike Lee joint by that name.

Derec, it's more about if you were to be falsely accused of racism. Emphasis on if and falsely.

But you are hardly alone. Since you want to talk about Chicago, perhaps you'd be interested in the following:


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...n-shot-chicago-police-officer-dies/786067002/

A 2017 Justice Department review found Chicago officers used force nearly 10 times more in incidents involving black suspects than against white suspects. African-Americans were the subject of 80% of all police firearm uses and 81% of all Taser contact-stun uses between January 2011 and April 2016. Of incidents where use of force was used against a minor, 83% involved black children and 14% involved Latino children during the same time-period, the report notes.

Chicago has also spent about $709 million on settlements for police misconduct cases, according to a recent report from the Action Center on Race & the Economy.

 

[laughing dog]

I already apologized for misreading that part of the article. And Chiraq is a common slang for Chicago due to its high rate of violent crime, especially shootings and murders. There even was a Spike Lee joint by that name.

First, given your long posting history, it is reasonable to conclude that your demonstrable bias helped you misread the article. Second, whether it or not "Chiraq" is a common slang for Chicago is irrelevant to your choice to use it.

Sorry, but this thread is yet another "here we go again on one of Derec's bigotry-driven hobby horses".

 

[Derec]

I already apologized for misreading that part of the article. And Chiraq is a common slang for Chicago due to its high rate of violent crime, especially shootings and murders. There even was a Spike Lee joint by that name.

First, given your long posting history, it is reasonable to conclude that your demonstrable bias helped you misread the article. Second, whether it or not "Chiraq" is a common slang for Chicago is irrelevant to your choice to use it.

Sorry, but this thread is yet another "here we go again on one of Derec's bigotry-driven hobby horses".

It's neither bogotry-driven nor a hobby-horse. Rioting every time a black suspect is shot by police is an important topic.

 

[Mumbles]

I already apologized for misreading that part of the article. And Chiraq is a common slang for Chicago due to its high rate of violent crime, especially shootings and murders. There even was a Spike Lee joint by that name.

First, given your long posting history, it is reasonable to conclude that your demonstrable bias helped you misread the article. Second, whether it or not "Chiraq" is a common slang for Chicago is irrelevant to your choice to use it.

Sorry, but this thread is yet another "here we go again on one of Derec's bigotry-driven hobby horses".

It's neither bogotry-driven nor a hobby-horse. Rioting every time a black suspect is shot by police is an important topic.

And it's quite often caused by wild overreaction by police themselves, as we saw in Ferguson.

(Baltimore's rather different , since in that case there was no protest, and police simply spent hours harassing and eventually attacking teens trying to go home from school)

This is also similar to Ferguson, in that police not only attacked protesters en masse, but journalists as well. Also, that whole "well documented racism in law enforcement" thing.

- - - Updated - - -

I already apologized for misreading that part of the article. And Chiraq is a common slang for Chicago due to its high rate of violent crime, especially shootings and murders. There even was a Spike Lee joint by that name.

First, given your long posting history, it is reasonable to conclude that your demonstrable bias helped you misread the article. Second, whether it or not "Chiraq" is a common slang for Chicago is irrelevant to your choice to use it.

Sorry, but this thread is yet another "here we go again on one of Derec's bigotry-driven hobby horses".

It's neither bogotry-driven nor a hobby-horse. Rioting every time a black suspect is shot by police is an important topic.

And it's quite often caused by wild overreaction by police themselves, as we saw in Ferguson.

(Baltimore's rather different , since in that case there was no protest, and police simply spent hours harassing and eventually attacking teens trying to go home from school)

This is also similar to Ferguson, in that police not only attacked protesters en masse, but journalists as well. Also, that whole "well documented racism in law enforcement" thing.

 

[laughing dog]

I already apologized for misreading that part of the article. And Chiraq is a common slang for Chicago due to its high rate of violent crime, especially shootings and murders. There even was a Spike Lee joint by that name.

First, given your long posting history, it is reasonable to conclude that your demonstrable bias helped you misread the article. Second, whether it or not "Chiraq" is a common slang for Chicago is irrelevant to your choice to use it.

Sorry, but this thread is yet another "here we go again on one of Derec's bigotry-driven hobby horses".

It's neither bogotry-driven nor a hobby-horse.

Your persistent use of hyperbolic and sometimes outright bigoted language along with your obsession with the race of those involved make it so.

Rioting every time a black suspect is shot by police is an important topic.

You cannot help but give yourself away.

 

[Toni]

I already apologized for misreading that part of the article. And Chiraq is a common slang for Chicago due to its high rate of violent crime, especially shootings and murders. There even was a Spike Lee joint by that name.

First, given your long posting history, it is reasonable to conclude that your demonstrable bias helped you misread the article. Second, whether it or not "Chiraq" is a common slang for Chicago is irrelevant to your choice to use it.

Sorry, but this thread is yet another "here we go again on one of Derec's bigotry-driven hobby horses".

It's neither bogotry-driven nor a hobby-horse. Rioting every time a black suspect is shot by police is an important topic.

Here's a thought: Police could stop shooting unarmed suspects. Police could also quit lying or distorting evidence about whether a suspect was armed. People could begin to have confidence in the police. Problem solved.




Heck, they could also stop shooting suspects who are armed with weapons designed and capable of only harming the suspect and instead, do their job, protect the public by getting a skilled negotiator/psychologist to help the suicidal person (sorry: in my area, a teenager who was a well regarded, extremely good student and athlete was killed by police when his parents called out of concern for their son's safety when he barricaded himself in the garage with: a baseball bat and perhaps a knife. He was alone in the garage and not capable of using either to harm anyone other than himself. But another kid in crisis who is killed by police...You might want to be upset by this. The kid was white.)

Police could do what they are supposed to and only use firearms if it is necessary to preserve the lives of the public or of themselves. Which is more rare than the number of shootings we see in the US would suggest. Any thinking person would have to ask why that is. Other countries have mentally ill people. Other countries have people in crisis, people who are perhaps suicidal or perhaps just having a terrible, terrible day. Other countries have drug problems, black people, brown people, immigrants, criminals, etc. But someone, the US stands out when it comes to things like police shootings and mass shootings.

I wonder what makes the US so special?

 

[repoman]

Closest parallel to the US with crime is Brazil?

Go to Liveleak.com and check the videos coming out of Brazil. Tons of petty street crime, carjackings, assassinations. But the most common is off duty police at the scene of a robbery blowing the head off of the robber the second the gun is drawn.

Teens get light sentences, so lots of teens are assassins.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It's neither bogotry-driven nor a hobby-horse. Rioting every time a black suspect is shot by police is an important topic.

Here's a thought: Police could stop shooting unarmed suspects. Police could also quit lying or distorting evidence about whether a suspect was armed. People could begin to have confidence in the police. Problem solved.

Wouldn't make much difference. The race agitators would pretend the shootings weren't justified anyway.

The vast majority of people shot by the police are armed--and the "unarmed" category includes simulated weapons.

Heck, they could also stop shooting suspects who are armed with weapons designed and capable of only harming the suspect and instead, do their job, protect the public by getting a skilled negotiator/psychologist to help the suicidal person (sorry: in my area, a teenager who was a well regarded, extremely good student and athlete was killed by police when his parents called out of concern for their son's safety when he barricaded himself in the garage with: a baseball bat and perhaps a knife. He was alone in the garage and not capable of using either to harm anyone other than himself. But another kid in crisis who is killed by police...You might want to be upset by this. The kid was white.)

A bit of reality would help here.

1) About the only weapon that isn't a threat to others is an ingested poison. I've never heard of the cops shooting someone for having a bottle of poison.

2) If the cops have time to talk them down they take that approach. Most suicide by cop cases go down way too fast for that--the person goes after either the cops or bystanders.

3) Your scenario makes no sense. If he was not in a position to use either on anyone else then he also wasn't in a position a cop could shoot him. Furthermore, letting him stay there unobserved during a talkdown is most likely unacceptable. Thinking of my own garage--in one corner you'll find tools, including the wrench you would need to undo the gas line in another corner. Besides, the line is flex (I have never seen a gas water heater connected by anything but flex), given time you could break it without tools.

Police could do what they are supposed to and only use firearms if it is necessary to preserve the lives of the public or of themselves. Which is more rare than the number of shootings we see in the US would suggest. Any thinking person would have to ask why that is. Other countries have mentally ill people. Other countries have people in crisis, people who are perhaps suicidal or perhaps just having a terrible, terrible day. Other countries have drug problems, black people, brown people, immigrants, criminals, etc. But someone, the US stands out when it comes to things like police shootings and mass shootings.

I wonder what makes the US so special?

A thinking person would look for the facts rather than BLM garbage.