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Herrnstein and Murray on "Intelligence Besieged"

ApostateAbe

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Infotheist. I believe the gods to be mere information.
I read The Bell Curve about six years ago, which was the start of my long personal study on race and intelligence. One of the shocking assertions was that academics who study intelligence largely agreed with the authors Herrnstein and Murray about the heritability of race-IQ gap, but they seldom make their opinions known to the public for fear of the taboo. One of my main interests was defending the theory of evolution from creationism, but it was not a fair fight, as creationism poses no serious threat to the science, not even politically. These authors claimed that there was a severe threat to another science from another political camp, and they were being bullied into silence. As It would be as though the young-Earth creationists have won, turning the theory of evolution into a disgraceful taboo, studied only among obscure scientists with an interest in taboo science. I researched for years afterward, and I found the assertion to be largely correct, with many other authors attesting to the same point, even those who disagreed with these academics. I read again and reproduced this section from the introduction of The Bell Curve, titled "Intelligence Besieged" (and also part of the next section). It provides a good introductory education on the heavily strained relationship between the field of intelligence research and the public, explaining why so much of the public is desperately out of touch with the science, often believing it to be no more than useless pseudoscience.

INTELLIGENCE BESIEGED

Then came the 1960s, and a new controversy about intelligence tests
that continues to this day. It arose not from new findings but from a new
outlook on public policy. Beginning with the rise of powerful social democratic
and socialist movements after World War I and accelerating
across the decades until the 1960s, a fundamental shift was taking place
in the received wisdom regarding equality. This was most evident in the
political arena, where the civil rights movement and then the War on
Poverty raised Americans' consciousness about the nature of the inequalities
in American society. But the changes in outlook ran deeper
and broader than politics. Assumptions about the very origins of social
problems changed profoundly. Nowhere was the shift more pervasive
than in the field of psychology.

Psychometricians of the 1930s had debated whether intelligence is
almost entirely produced by genes or whether the environment also
plays a role. By the 1960s and 1970s the point of contention had shifted
dramatically. It had somehow become controversial to claim, especially
in public, that genes had any effect at all on intelligence. Ironically, the
evidence for genetic factors in intelligence had greatly strengthened
during the very period when the terms of the debate were moving in the
other direction.

In the psychological laboratory, there was a similar shift. Psychological
experimenters early in the century were, if anything, more likely to
concentrate on the inborn patterns of human and animal behavior than
on how the learning process could change behavior.18 But from the
1930s to the 1960s, the leading behaviorists, as they were called, and
their students and disciples were almost all specialists in learning theory.
They filled the technical journals with the results of learning experiments
on rats and pigeons, the tacit implication being that genetic
endowment mattered so little that we could ignore the differences
among species, let alone among human individuals, and still discover
enough about the learning process to make it useful and relevant to
human concerns.19 There are, indeed, aspects of the learning process
that cross the lines between species, but there are also enormous differences,
and these differences were sometimes ignored or minimized when
psychologists explained their findings to the lay public. B. F. Skinner, at
Harvard University, more than any other of the leading behaviorists,
broke out of the academic world into public attention with books that
applied the findings of laboratory research on animals to human society
at large.20

To those who held the behaviorist view, human potential was almost
perfectly malleable, shaped by the environment. The causes of human
deficiencies in intelligence--or parenting, or social behavior, or work
behavior-lay outside the individual. They were caused by flaws in society.
Sometimes capitalism was blamed, sometimes an uncaring or in-
competent government. Further, the causes of these deficiencies could be
fixed by the right public policies--redistribution of wealth, better education,
better housing and medical care. Once these environmental causes
were removed, the deficiencies should vanish as well, it was argued.

The contrary notion--that individual differences could not easily be
diminished by government intervention--collided head-on with the
enthusiasm for egalitarianism, which itself collided head-on with a half-century
of IQ data indicating that differences in intelligence are intractable
and significantly heritable and that the average IQ of various
socioeconomic and ethnic groups differs.

In 1969, Arthur Jensen, an educational psychologist and expert on
testing from the University of California at Berkeley, put a match to this
volatile mix of science and ideology with an article in the Harvard Educational
Review.21 Asked by the Review's editors to consider why com-
pensatory and remedial education programs begun with such high hopes
during the War on Poverty had yielded such disappointing results,
Jensen concluded that the programs were bound to have little success
because they were aimed at populations of youngsters with relatively
low IQs, and success in school depended to a considerable degree on IQ.
IQ had a large heritable component, Jensen also noted. The article fur.
ther disclosed that the youngsters in the targeted populations were disproportionately
black and that historically blacks as a population had
exhibited average IQs substantially below those of whites.

The reaction to Jensen's article was immediate and violent. From
1969 through the mid-1970s, dozens of books and hundreds of articles
appeared denouncing the use of IQ tests and arguing that mental abil-
ities are determined by environment, with the genes playing a minor
role and race none at all. Jensen's name became synonymous with a constellation
of hateful ways of thinking. "It perhaps is impossible to exaggerate
the importance of the Jensen disgrace," wrote Jerry Hirsch, a
psychologist specializing in the genetics of animal behavior who was
among Jensen's more vehement critics. "It has permeated both science
and the universities and hoodwinked large segments of government and
society. Like Vietnam and Watergate, it is a contemporary symptom of
serious affliction."22 The title of Hirsch's article was "The Bankruptcy
of 'Science' Without Scholarship." During the first few years after the
Harvard Educational Review article was published, Jensen could appear
in no public forum in the United States without triggering something
perilously close to a riot.

The uproar was exacerbated by William Shockley, who had won the
Nobel Prize in physics for his contributions to the invention of the transistor
but had turned his attention to human variation toward the end
of his career. As eccentric as he was brilliant, he often recalled the eugenicists
of the early decades of the century. He proposed, as a "thought
exercise," a scheme for paying people with low IQs to be sterilized.23 He
supported (and contributed to) a sperm bank for geniuses. He seemed
to relish expressing sensitive scientific findings in a way that would outrage
or disturb as many people as possible. Jensen and Shockley, utterly
unlike as they were in most respects, soon came to be classed together
as a pair of racist intellectual cranks.

Then one of us, Richard Herrnstein, an experimental psychologist at
Harvard, strayed into forbidden territory with an article in the September
1971 Atlantic Monthly.24 Herrnstein barely mentioned race, but
he did talk about heritability of IQ. His proposition, put in the form of
a syllogism, was that because IQ is substantially heritable, because economic
success in life depends in part on the talents measured by IQ tests,
and because social standing depends in part on economic success, it follows
that social standing is bound to be based to some extent on inherited
differences. By 1971, this had become a controversial thing to say.
In media accounts of intelligence, the names Jensen, Shockley, and
Herrnstein became roughly interchangeable.

That same year, 1971, the U.S. Supreme Court outlawed the use of
standardized ability tests by employers unless they had a "manifest relationship"
to the specific job in question because, the Supreme Court
held, standardized tests acted as "built-in headwinds" for minority groups,
even in the absence of discriminatory intent.25 A year later, the National
Education Association called upon the nation's schools to impose a
moratorium on all standardized intelligence testing, hypothesizing that
"a third or more of American citizens are intellectually folded, mutilated
or spindled before they have a chance to get through elementary school
because of linguistically or culturally biased standardized tests."26 A
movement that had begun in the 1960s gained momentum in the early
1970s, as major school systems throughout the country, including those
of Chicago, New York, and Los Angeles, limited or banned the use of
group-administered standardized tests in public schools. A number of colleges
announced that they would no longer require the Scholastic Aptitude
Test as part of the admissions process. The legal movement against
tests reached its apogee in 1978 in the case of Lawy P. Judge Robert Peckham
of the U.S. District Court in San Francisco ruled that it was unconstitutional
to use IQ tests for placement of children in classes for the
educably mentally retarded if the use of those tests resulted in placement
of "grossly disproportionate" numbers of black children.27

Meanwhile, the intellectual debate had taken a new and personalized
turn. Those who claimed that intelligence was substantially inherited
were not just wrong, the critics now discovered, they were charlatans as
well. Leon Kamin, a psychologist then at Princeton, opened this phase
of the debate with a 1974 book, The Science and Politics of IQ. "Patriotism,
we have been told, is the last refuge of scoundrels," Kamin wrote
in the opening pages. "Psychologists and biologists might consider the
possibility that heritability is the first."28 Kamin went on to charge that
mental testing and belief in the heritability of IQ in particular had been
fostered by people with right-wing political views and racist social views.
They had engaged in pseudoscience, he wrote, suppressing the data they
did not like and exaggerating the data that agreed with their preconceptions.
Examined carefully, the case for the heritability of IQ was nil,
concluded Kamin.

In 1976, a British journalist, Oliver Gillie, published an article in the
London Sunday Times that seemed to confirm Kamin's thesis with a sensational
revelation: The recently deceased Cyril Burt, Britain's most eminent
psychometrician, author of the largest and most famous study of
the intelligence of identical twins who grew up apart, was charged with
fraud.29 He had made up data, fudged his results, and invented coauthors,
the Sunday Times declared. The subsequent scandal was as big as
the Piltdown Man hoax. Cyril Burt had not been just another researcher
but one of the giants of twentieth-century psychology. Nor could his
colleagues find a ready defense (the defense came later, as described in
the box). They protested that the revelations did not compromise the
great bulk of the work that bore on the issue of heritability, but their defenses
sounded feeble in the light of the suspicions that had preceded
Burt's exposure.

For the public observing the uproar in the academy from the sidelines,
the capstone of the assault on the integrity of the discipline occurred
in 1981 when Harvard paleobiologist Stephen Jay Gould, author
of several popular books on biology, published The Mismeasure of Man.32
Gould examined the history of intelligence testing, found that it was
peopled by charlatans, racists, and self-deluded fools, and concluded
that "determinist arguments for ranking people according to a single
scale of intelligence, no matter how numerically sophisticated, have
recorded little more than social prejudice."33 The Mismeasure of Man
became a best-seller and won the National Book Critics Circle
Award.

Gould and his allies had won the visible battle. By the early 1980s, a
new received wisdom about intelligence had been formed that went
roughly as follows:

Intelligence is a bankrupt concept. Whatever it might mean--and nobody
really knows even how to define it--intelligence is so ephemeral that no one
can measure it accurately. IQ tests are, of course, culturally biased, and
so are all the other "aptitude" tests, such as the SAT. To the extent that
tests such as IQ and SAT measure anything, it certainly is not an innate
"intelligence." IQ scores are not constant; they often change significantly
over an individual's life span. The scores of entire populations can be expected
to change over time--look at the Jews, who early in the twentieth
century scored below average on IQ scores and now score well above the
average. Furthermore, the tests are nearly useless as tools, as confirmed
by the well-documented fact that such tests do not predict anything except
success in school. Earnings, occupation, productivity--all the important
measures of success--are unrelated to the test scores. All that tests really
accomplish is to label youngsters, stigmatizing the ones who do not do well
and creating a self-fulfilling prophecy that injures the socioeconomically disadvantaged
in general and blacks in particular.

INTELLIGENCE REDUX

As far as public discussion is concerned, this collection of beliefs, with
some variations, remains the state of wisdom about cognitive abilities
and IQ tests. It bears almost no relation to the current state of knowledge
among scholars in the field, however, and therein lies a tale. The
dialogue about testing has been conducted at two levels during the last
two decades--the visible one played out in the press and the subter-
ranean one played out in the technical journals and books.

The case of Arthur Jensen is illustrative. To the public, he surfaced
briefly, published an article that was discredited, and fell back into obscurity.
Within the world of psychometrics, however, he continued to
be one of the profession's most prolific scholars, respected for his metic-
ulous research by colleagues of every theoretical stripe. Jensen had not
recanted. He continued to build on the same empirical findings that had
gotten him into such trouble in the 1960s, but primarily in technical
publications, where no one outside the profession had to notice. The
same thing was happening throughout psychometrics. In the 1970s,
scholars observed that colleagues who tried to say publicly that IQ tests
had merit, or that intelligence was substantially inherited, or even that
intelligence existed as a definable and measurable human quality, paid
too high a price. Their careers, family lives, relationships with colleagues,
and even physical safety could be jeopardized by speaking out.
Why speak out when there was no compelling reason to do so? Research
on cognitive abilities continued to flourish, hut only in the sanctuary of
the ivory tower.

In this cloistered environment, the continuing debate about intelli-
gence was conducted much as debates are conducted within any other
academic discipline. The public controversy had surfaced some genuine
issues, and the competing parties set about trying to resolve them. Con-
troversial hypotheses were put to the test. Sometimes they were confirmed,
sometimes rejected. Often they led to new questions, which were
then explored. Substantial progress was made, Many of the issues that
created such a public furor in the 1970s were resolved, and the study of
cognitive abilities went on to explore new areas.

This is not to say that controversy has ended, only that the controversy
within the professional intelligence testing community is much
different from that outside it. The issues that seem most salient in articles
in the popular press (Isn't intelligence determined mostly by environment?
Aren't the tests useless because they're biased?) are not major
topics of debate within the profession. On many of the publicly discussed
questions, a scholarly consensus has been reached.34 Rather, the contending
parties within the professional community divide along other
lines. By the early 1990s, they could be roughly divided into three factions
for our purposes: the classicists, the revisionists, and the radicals.​
 
I don't know, but I suggest you learn from them, not merely react against them.
 
The scores of entire populations can be expected
to change over time--look at the Jews, who early in the twentieth
century scored below average on IQ scores and now score well above the
average.
If Herrnstein and Murry give this as part of the "received wisdom" of their opponents, does that mean they actually disagree with this statement in particular? Take a look at this article by Ron Unz, a conservative whose site "The Unz Review" is by no means ideologically opposed to "human biodiversity" ideas (Steve Sailer is a regular contributor for example). The article reviews a large amount of IQ data by researchers like Richard Lynn and comes to the conclusion that cultural changes can lead to very large changes in the IQ of ethnic groups. He looks primarily at different European groups, listing many examples such as:
Next, consider Greece. Lynn and Vanhanen report two IQ sample results, a score of 88 in 1961 and a score of 95 in 1979. Obviously, a national rise of 7 full points in the Flynn-adjusted IQ of Greeks over just 18 years is an absurdity from the genetic perspective, especially since the earlier set represented children and the latter adults, so the two groups might even be the same individuals tested at different times. Both sample sizes are in the hundreds, not statistically insignificant, and while it is impossible to rule out other factors behind such a large discrepancy in a single country, it is interesting to note that Greek affluence had grown very rapidly during that same period, with the real per capita GDP rising by 170 percent.

Furthermore, although Greeks and Turks have a bitter history of ethnic and political conflict, modern studies have found them to be genetically almost indistinguishable, and a very large 1992 study of Turkish schoolchildren put their mean IQ at 90, lending plausibility to the low Greek figure. We also discover rather low IQ scores in all the reported samples of Greece’s impoverished Balkan neighbors in the Eastern Bloc taken before the collapse of Communism. Croatians scored 90 in 1952, two separate tests of Bulgarians in 1979–1982 put their IQs at 91–94, and Romanians scored 94 in 1972. While the low scores of the Croatian children might be partly explained by malnutrition and other physical hardships experienced during the difficult years of World War II, such an excuse seems less plausible for other Balkan populations tested decades after the war, all of which seem to score in the same range.

...

If these differences of perhaps 10 or even 15 IQ points between impoverished Balkan Europeans and wealthy Western ones reflected deeply hereditary rather than transitory environmental influences, they surely would have maintained themselves when these groups immigrated to the United States. But there is no evidence of this. As it happens, Americans of Greek and South Slav origins are considerably above most other American whites in both family income and educational level. Since the overwhelming majority of the latter trace their ancestry to Britain and other high IQ countries of Western Europe, this would seem a strange result if the Balkan peoples truly did suffer from an innate ability deficit approaching a full standard deviation.
Of course this sort of thing doesn't prove that some differences between ethnic groups might not also have a genetic component, but it does suggest we should be very skeptical of claims that IQ differences alone provide any good reason to favor that hypothesis over the hypothesis that the gap is entirely environmental in origin.
 
I don't know, but I suggest you learn from them, not merely react against them.

Or maybe you should take the hint. People just aren't into your pet cause around here.

Because everyone is a mongrel.

If you take 10 pints of paints of different colors, then haphazardly throw the contents accross the floor, and divide the floor in quadrants and subquadrants... you can distinguish that each subquadrant is characterized by several hues and shades, that are different to those of other subquadrants. This is expectable, and does not belie the fact that it is one big chaotic mess;

If you add to that the Darwinian fact that e.g. the southern Balkans does not have any features that will not by themselves select less intelligence than, say, the southeastern Baltic;

If you add to that the fact that the social environment is much more important in selecting for intelligence, the use of which has had more social use than sylvan;

And if you add to that that upbringing/education is decisive in the development of the individual's intelligence;

And if you go on and add to it that other factors such as nutrition are factors as well;

And that it's ludicrous to sort people according to political boundaries which have been impressively mobile even in the last 500y which is evolutionarily a blink of an eye...

... the discussion (ethnicity=intelligence) is moot and has been for a long time in scientific circles, except of course for the rare cases of a few morbidly obsessed with the subject.

Most everyone here knows this except for, seemingly, A.Abe. That's why this is an underwhelming subject on the forum. I'm sorry.
 
If Herrnstein and Murry give this as part of the "received wisdom" of their opponents, does that mean they actually disagree with this statement in particular? Take a look at this article by Ron Unz, a conservative whose site "The Unz Review" is by no means ideologically opposed to "human biodiversity" ideas (Steve Sailer is a regular contributor for example). The article reviews a large amount of IQ data by researchers like Richard Lynn and comes to the conclusion that cultural changes can lead to very large changes in the IQ of ethnic groups. He looks primarily at different European groups, listing many examples such as:
Next, consider Greece. Lynn and Vanhanen report two IQ sample results, a score of 88 in 1961 and a score of 95 in 1979. Obviously, a national rise of 7 full points in the Flynn-adjusted IQ of Greeks over just 18 years is an absurdity from the genetic perspective, especially since the earlier set represented children and the latter adults, so the two groups might even be the same individuals tested at different times. Both sample sizes are in the hundreds, not statistically insignificant, and while it is impossible to rule out other factors behind such a large discrepancy in a single country, it is interesting to note that Greek affluence had grown very rapidly during that same period, with the real per capita GDP rising by 170 percent.

Furthermore, although Greeks and Turks have a bitter history of ethnic and political conflict, modern studies have found them to be genetically almost indistinguishable, and a very large 1992 study of Turkish schoolchildren put their mean IQ at 90, lending plausibility to the low Greek figure. We also discover rather low IQ scores in all the reported samples of Greece’s impoverished Balkan neighbors in the Eastern Bloc taken before the collapse of Communism. Croatians scored 90 in 1952, two separate tests of Bulgarians in 1979–1982 put their IQs at 91–94, and Romanians scored 94 in 1972. While the low scores of the Croatian children might be partly explained by malnutrition and other physical hardships experienced during the difficult years of World War II, such an excuse seems less plausible for other Balkan populations tested decades after the war, all of which seem to score in the same range.

...

If these differences of perhaps 10 or even 15 IQ points between impoverished Balkan Europeans and wealthy Western ones reflected deeply hereditary rather than transitory environmental influences, they surely would have maintained themselves when these groups immigrated to the United States. But there is no evidence of this. As it happens, Americans of Greek and South Slav origins are considerably above most other American whites in both family income and educational level. Since the overwhelming majority of the latter trace their ancestry to Britain and other high IQ countries of Western Europe, this would seem a strange result if the Balkan peoples truly did suffer from an innate ability deficit approaching a full standard deviation.
Of course this sort of thing doesn't prove that some differences between ethnic groups might not also have a genetic component, but it does suggest we should be very skeptical of claims that IQ differences alone provide any good reason to favor that hypothesis over the hypothesis that the gap is entirely environmental in origin.
I don't agree with the reasoning of the writer of Unz (I am thinking just measurement error), but Herrnstein and Murray most certainly did recognize secular IQ gains that can be attributed only to environmental changes, not genetics. They coined the term, "the Flynn Effect," in the book to denote that pattern. Heritability studies show that there is some effect of environmental variations on IQ variations. It is less than the genetic effect, but still existent (Herrnstein and Murray favor the values 60% genetic vs. 40% environmental. They claim that this is a moderate position, and they are right. The position predominant among the public is 0% genetic vs. 100% environmental.
 
Or maybe you should take the hint. People just aren't into your pet cause around here.

Because everyone is a mongrel.

If you take 10 pints of paints of different colors, then haphazardly throw the contents accross the floor, and divide the floor in quadrants and subquadrants... you can distinguish that each subquadrant is characterized by several hues and shades, that are different to those of other subquadrants. This is expectable, and does not belie the fact that it is one big chaotic mess;

If you add to that the Darwinian fact that e.g. the southern Balkans does not have any features that will not by themselves select less intelligence than, say, the southeastern Baltic;

If you add to that the fact that the social environment is much more important in selecting for intelligence, the use of which has had more social use than sylvan;

And if you add to that that upbringing/education is decisive in the development of the individual's intelligence;

And if you go on and add to it that other factors such as nutrition are factors as well;

And that it's ludicrous to sort people according to political boundaries which have been impressively mobile even in the last 500y which is evolutionarily a blink of an eye...

... the discussion (ethnicity=intelligence) is moot and has been for a long time in scientific circles, except of course for the rare cases of a few morbidly obsessed with the subject.

Most everyone here knows this except for, seemingly, A.Abe. That's why this is an underwhelming subject on the forum. I'm sorry.
"... the discussion (ethnicity=intelligence) is moot and has been for a long time in scientific circles, except of course for the rare cases of a few morbidly obsessed with the subject."

So why do you think Arthur Jensen was awarded the first lifetime achievement award by the International Society for Intelligence Research, in your opinion? (Not that anyone including Jensen ever claimed that ethnicity equals intelligence).
 
I don't agree with the reasoning of the writer of Unz (I am thinking just measurement error)
You think all the examples listed are measurement error? Plenty of them were large studies involving hundreds or even thousands of individuals.
but Herrnstein and Murray most certainly did recognize secular IQ gains that can be attributed only to environmental changes, not genetics. They coined the term, "the Flynn Effect," in the book to denote that pattern. Heritability studies show that there is some effect of environmental variations on IQ variations. It is less than the genetic effect, but still existent (Herrnstein and Murray favor the values 60% genetic vs. 40% environmental. They claim that this is a moderate position, and they are right. The position predominant among the public is 0% genetic vs. 100% environmental.
Here it seems like you are conflating two different issues--one can easily believe that IQ differences between randomly selected individuals are 60% genetic and 40% environmental while also believing that average IQ differences between two very large populations--which can include cases where the two "populations" are members of the same ethnic group and geographic region measured in different decades, as in the Flynn effect--are entirely environmental, or nearly so. A common analogy for this is that if you have a type of plant where variations in height between plants grown from individual seeds under similar conditions are about half genetic and half environmental, then if you randomly put half your seeds in a plot with significantly better conditions (richer soil, for example) and half in a plot with worse conditions, then there may be an average difference in the height of plants on the two plants which is entirely environmental (since the seeds were assigned to a plot at random).
 
You think all the examples listed are measurement error? Plenty of them were large studies involving hundreds or even thousands of individuals.
I was referring to the difference in averages between two studies. Even when the N is high, it does not discount the possibility of systemic biases common among IQ tests. I.e., if you test in urban areas your results will bias high, and if you test in rural areas your results will bias low. Drawing a conclusion of an objective pattern from a difference of only 7 points between only two studies is not so useful, because 7 points is within the typical standard deviation. As an example, Lynn and Vanhanen collected these 12 IQ averages of black South Africans, of studies from 1971 to 2004:

84;72;79;75;100;77;83;82;81;93;99;101

According to my math, it has a standard deviation of 10.2, meaning a 63% chance that any random IQ average result will be 82.5 (the average of all samples) plus or minus 10.2, and this seems to be close to typical for IQ studies. That is why Lynn's inferences rest on the results of very many studies, not just a few, never on only one.

but Herrnstein and Murray most certainly did recognize secular IQ gains that can be attributed only to environmental changes, not genetics. They coined the term, "the Flynn Effect," in the book to denote that pattern. Heritability studies show that there is some effect of environmental variations on IQ variations. It is less than the genetic effect, but still existent (Herrnstein and Murray favor the values 60% genetic vs. 40% environmental. They claim that this is a moderate position, and they are right. The position predominant among the public is 0% genetic vs. 100% environmental.
Here it seems like you are conflating two different issues--one can easily believe that IQ differences between randomly selected individuals are 60% genetic and 40% environmental while also believing that average IQ differences between two very large populations--which can include cases where the two "populations" are members of the same ethnic group and geographic region measured in different decades, as in the Flynn effect--are entirely environmental, or nearly so. A common analogy for this is that if you have a type of plant where variations in height between plants grown from individual seeds under similar conditions are about half genetic and half environmental, then if you randomly put half your seeds in a plot with significantly better conditions (richer soil, for example) and half in a plot with worse conditions, then there may be an average difference in the height of plants on the two plants which is entirely environmental (since the seeds were assigned to a plot at random).
Yes, good point, and I recognize that distinction. Within-group heritability of IQ does not prove between-group heritability of IQ. I make my full case for between-group heritability, in this thread:

How to prepare for the coming science of genetic racial variations, and a summary of the full case for the genetics of racial differences in intelligence.

I discussed the relevance of within-group heritability in "BACKGROUND KNOWLEDGE #1" and "BACKGROUND KNOWLEDGE #2."
 
If you ask tea-party members, or communists, or radical libertarians, whether there is a conspiracy to silence or discredit their views, you'll get similar results.

The problem is psychology is not a single coherent discipline. It is made up of several different subjects under one banner, and the theroretical models and practical approaches in each area do not entirely mesh. That's why I'm always arguing with Loren about operationalisation & experimental controls vs. validity. He's used to extremely high standards in control of factors, which makes sense considering what he was studying. I'm used to extremely high standards regarding the validity of chosen measures, due to what I was studying. Behaviourists and cognitive psychologists do not see eye to eye on this.

Similarly for IQ. Psychometrics is a niche area, that has enjoyed some commercial success, but has had a mixed reaction from the rest of the psychological community as to the validity of their measures. Yes, if you ask only those scientists who decided to dedicate their life to IQ, testing, they're likely to assure it's entirely valid as a measure, not just for the purposes for which IQ testing is put, but in a greater sense for the general measurement of mankind, social policy, etc. Similarly, if you ask an accountant, they're likely to assure you that a firm grip on finance is bedrock of any human endeavour. Richard Dawkins once opined that Evolution was not just a fine theory, but the pinnacle of human achievement by which humanity as a whole might be judged.

It's easy to run away with these things. But coming back down to earth for a moment, it's very very hard to make the case that IQ somehow measures all human intelligence, or that human society should be rearranged around a discipline more noted for measuring scholastic endeavour than for modelling all it is to be human. Which is why such claims are reserved for books and articles, which are not subject to peer-review, rather than experiments, where the conclusions might reasonably be dismissed as a gross overstatement of the available evidence.

Yes, IQ research is subject to political pressure when it makes statements about public policy. Just like everyone else is subject to political pressure when they make statements about public policy. No doubt that has led some IQ researchers deciding that they're not being given a fair shake. But scientists who do understand what they're doing, who do understand the methods, and the statistics, and the evidence, do not tend to support these claims. Which is why they are limited to a subset of IQ researchers, rather than accepted across the discipline as a whole.
 
If you ask tea-party members, or communists, or radical libertarians, whether there is a conspiracy to silence or discredit their views, you'll get similar results.

The problem is psychology is not a single coherent discipline. It is made up of several different subjects under one banner, and the theroretical models and practical approaches in each area do not entirely mesh. That's why I'm always arguing with Loren about operationalisation & experimental controls vs. validity. He's used to extremely high standards in control of factors, which makes sense considering what he was studying. I'm used to extremely high standards regarding the validity of chosen measures, due to what I was studying. Behaviourists and cognitive psychologists do not see eye to eye on this.

Similarly for IQ. Psychometrics is a niche area, that has enjoyed some commercial success, but has had a mixed reaction from the rest of the psychological community as to the validity of their measures. Yes, if you ask only those scientists who decided to dedicate their life to IQ, testing, they're likely to assure it's entirely valid as a measure, not just for the purposes for which IQ testing is put, but in a greater sense for the general measurement of mankind, social policy, etc. Similarly, if you ask an accountant, they're likely to assure you that a firm grip on finance is bedrock of any human endeavour. Richard Dawkins once opined that Evolution was not just a fine theory, but the pinnacle of human achievement by which humanity as a whole might be judged.

It's easy to run away with these things. But coming back down to earth for a moment, it's very very hard to make the case that IQ somehow measures all human intelligence, or that human society should be rearranged around a discipline more noted for measuring scholastic endeavour than for modelling all it is to be human. Which is why such claims are reserved for books and articles, which are not subject to peer-review, rather than experiments, where the conclusions might reasonably be dismissed as a gross overstatement of the available evidence.

Yes, IQ research is subject to political pressure when it makes statements about public policy. Just like everyone else is subject to political pressure when they make statements about public policy. No doubt that has led some IQ researchers deciding that they're not being given a fair shake. But scientists who do understand what they're doing, who do understand the methods, and the statistics, and the evidence, do not tend to support these claims. Which is why they are limited to a subset of IQ researchers, rather than accepted across the discipline as a whole.
You have a lot of good thoughts there. There is a set of claims made by the MAJORITY of intelligence researchers but not the majority of other psychologists, i.e. that intelligence as measured by intelligence tests are central to making sense of human economic inequality and that the racial differences in average intelligence scores are mainly genetic. Those are politically controversial points that do not so directly follow from a narrow range of data but only from a broad comprehension of a diversity of data and a sound theoretical understanding unique to intelligence researchers. But, there are other conclusions that follow directly from a narrow range of data, they are accepted broadly among psychologists of all disciplines, and they are still at odds with the common thinking of the public, such as the points that intelligence score variations within groups are mostly heritable and that racial and class gaps in average intelligence scores exist. All the points listed in the article "Mainstream Science on Intelligence" are of that nature (http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/reprints/1997mainstream.pdf). I don't think it is right to be inclined to dismiss the whole field of intelligence research the same way you would dismiss the consensus of opinions of a political party, because intelligence researchers really do know the most about what they are talking about, they are credentialed professors of state-accredited universities, they publish mainly in reputable peer-reviewed journals (really not so much in the popular media), and they really are well-respected by their colleagues in related fields. When they tend to claim that there is a widespread culture (not a conspiracy) that silences, distorts, misrepresents, misunderstands, discredits and dismisses their opinions, I think it needs to be taken a little more seriously. It is not just their claim. From my perspective, it seems to be a plainly obvious reality, following from my years-long comprehensive investigations into the intersection between the science and the public.
 
Because everyone is a mongrel.

If you take 10 pints of paints of different colors, then haphazardly throw the contents accross the floor, and divide the floor in quadrants and subquadrants... you can distinguish that each subquadrant is characterized by several hues and shades, that are different to those of other subquadrants. This is expectable, and does not belie the fact that it is one big chaotic mess;

If you add to that the Darwinian fact that e.g. the southern Balkans does not have any features that will not by themselves select less intelligence than, say, the southeastern Baltic;

If you add to that the fact that the social environment is much more important in selecting for intelligence, the use of which has had more social use than sylvan;

And if you add to that that upbringing/education is decisive in the development of the individual's intelligence;

And if you go on and add to it that other factors such as nutrition are factors as well;

And that it's ludicrous to sort people according to political boundaries which have been impressively mobile even in the last 500y which is evolutionarily a blink of an eye...

... the discussion (ethnicity=intelligence) is moot and has been for a long time in scientific circles, except of course for the rare cases of a few morbidly obsessed with the subject.

Most everyone here knows this except for, seemingly, A.Abe. That's why this is an underwhelming subject on the forum. I'm sorry.
"... the discussion (ethnicity=intelligence) is moot and has been for a long time in scientific circles, except of course for the rare cases of a few morbidly obsessed with the subject."

So why do you think Arthur Jensen was awarded the first lifetime achievement award by the International Society for Intelligence Research, in your opinion? (Not that anyone including Jensen ever claimed that ethnicity equals intelligence).

I don't understand the point of your question, "So why do you think Arthur Jensen was awarded the first lifetime achievement award by the International Society for Intelligence Research, in your opinion?". What you mean me to conclude from it is not clear. What do you think it means?
 
"... the discussion (ethnicity=intelligence) is moot and has been for a long time in scientific circles, except of course for the rare cases of a few morbidly obsessed with the subject."

So why do you think Arthur Jensen was awarded the first lifetime achievement award by the International Society for Intelligence Research, in your opinion? (Not that anyone including Jensen ever claimed that ethnicity equals intelligence).

I don't understand the point of your question, "So why do you think Arthur Jensen was awarded the first lifetime achievement award by the International Society for Intelligence Research, in your opinion?". What you mean me to conclude from it is not clear. What do you think it means?
The question that you think is moot, by the best indications, does not seem to be moot among the relevant researchers.
 
I don't understand the point of your question, "So why do you think Arthur Jensen was awarded the first lifetime achievement award by the International Society for Intelligence Research, in your opinion?". What you mean me to conclude from it is not clear. What do you think it means?
The question that you think is moot, by the best indications, does not seem to be moot among the relevant researchers.

Look, intelligence is an actual subject, the concept itself is problematic at best, multiple factors incide on intelligence test outcomes, and all of that renders you ethnic-based argumentation moot. Lost, perdido, dead.

Your insistence on it raises an eyebrow to say the least. I am curious about your insistence on taking one factor and crowning it as god of the subject on intelligence. And even intelligence itself, what's this incredible insistence you have? It's not that intelligence is the objective of life nor a gurantee of success or happiness or worthiness.

If you want someone to confess that genetics has something to do with intelligence test outcomes, rest assured hardly anyone here will deny it. It's not even close to being a division of opinions like the Neoliberal-Keynsian one or Hawkish-pacifist one. You can bet on there being quite a consensus here in favor of genetics having a role among such a hellbent band of Darwinians that has congregated on TFT. Happy? What you won't find is extremes in opinion of the eugenics-racism-ohmygodkeepoutthebrowns! kind.
 
The question that you think is moot, by the best indications, does not seem to be moot among the relevant researchers.

I'm curious:

What is your measured IQ and by what test/tests? What are your qualifications, academic and otherwise, to evaluate and make pronouncements on the research you have uncovered?
 
I don't know, but I suggest you learn from them, not merely react against them.

Why would an intelligent person waste time on something which has been discredited so many times. Is it any difference than interpreting geological data as evidence of the flood of Genesis?
 
I don't know, but I suggest you learn from them, not merely react against them.

Why would an intelligent person waste time on something which has been discredited so many times. Is it any difference than interpreting geological data as evidence of the flood of Genesis?
Yeah. The difference is that the theories of the science of human intelligence powerfully fulfill predictions and elegantly fit the evidence, and the theory of the Noachian flood plainly does not. That, and the science of intelligence is just plain interesting. I think it is natural for an intelligent person to be curious about why a science with claims that are highly taboo among the ideological public are taken so seriously by so many highly-qualified academics.
 
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