He's just begging for an attack

[Derec]

Dude, no other country is moving their embassy to Jerusalem or recognising it as the capital, not just Moslem countries. Canada's Trudeau government publicly stated both things today.

PM Islam Socks, who gave an Islamic terrorist 10 million dollars, is perhaps not the best example here.

The world-wide consensus is that this is a foolish and destabilising move.

Foreign policy should not be based on fear of what the Islamic terrorists will do.

 

[Elixir]

It may be that he is trying to trigger a terrorist attack. After all, the Nazis used a fake terrorist attack as a pretense to take away the rights of Germans. If Trump can use this as an excuse to claim emergency powers, he could make the Mueller investigation go away in a snap.

Are you saying a "Reichstag fire" event?

Maybe terrorist blowing up the Capitol Building..

Later,
ElectEngr

Or maybe some black guy peeing on the fairway of one of his golf courses. Oh, the horror!

 

[Derec]

Mr Trump is delivering on that stupid promise.

It's not just a campaign promise. It's based on US law that was passed over 20 years ago by an overwhelming bipartisan majority.

It'll not only please his religious right moron base, but could quite easily provoke an attack in the US.

Obviously we should not do anything that could lead Islamic terrorists to dislike us.

Nothing would suit him better than something spectacular. Lots of Americans who can't stand would rally behind him just like they did for George Bush after the World Trade Centre Attack. Getting a second assured in the first year of his presidency would be quite a coup.

Sure. Chuck Schumer is such a Trumpist.

 

[Derec]

It does make one have to ask questions. The US gives Israel lots of US Military Industrial Complex welfare bucks. Has for decades. Does recognizing Jerusalem make that much more of a difference? I doubt Iran will say 'this is the final straw!'

US also gives a lot of military aid to Egypt and Saudi Arabia. And it even recognizes Cairo and Ryad as capitals. Imagine that.

The other side of the mirror, does it actually matter if the rest of the world doesn't do it? Does this destabilize the Middle East more, or does it just make the importance of the US on the global stage smaller?

Yeah, because nothing says "international leadership" than failing to do something over fear that terrorists will not like it.

 

[dendrast]

Several thoughts:

- Jerusalem is already the capital of Israel. It has been the capital of the modern state of Israel since 1949. Knesset and most other government organs are in Jerusalem. Jerusalem has historically been the capital of the Kingdom of Judah as well as of the Hasmonean Kingdom. Why is US faulted for recognizing what has been the reality for a long time?
- This is not something Trump came up with. It is based on the law US Congress overwhelmingly passed in 1995. It certainly would have been better if Bill Clinton or GW Bush or Obama had decided to recognize Jerusalem, but unfortunately they were too chicken.
- Last but not least, we should not have our hands tied based on terrorist threaten to do. If we cave, then the terrorists have already won.

P.S.: should this not be in the main Politics forum?

Are we experiencing "forum drift"?

Actually, if you put it that way, the terrorists have already won. Americans are acting like anybody with a scarf who enters or tries to enter their country is going to kill them all.

The Jerusalem Embassy act was just as stupid as Trump's promise and Clinton, Bush and Obama all knew it. They weren't chicken, they were diplomatic. It does not advance the cause of peace in the Middle East. People have to at least try to get along.

 

[funinspace]

Several thoughts:

- Jerusalem is already the capital of Israel. It has been the capital of the modern state of Israel since 1949. Knesset and most other government organs are in Jerusalem. Jerusalem has historically been the capital of the Kingdom of Judah as well as of the Hasmonean Kingdom. Why is US faulted for recognizing what has been the reality for a long time?
- This is not something Trump came up with. It is based on the law US Congress overwhelmingly passed in 1995. It certainly would have been better if Bill Clinton or GW Bush or Obama had decided to recognize Jerusalem, but unfortunately they were too chicken.
- Last but not least, we should not have our hands tied based on terrorist threaten to do. If we cave, then the terrorists have already won.

P.S.: should this not be in the main Politics forum?

Are we experiencing "forum drift"?

I don't think so, but it appears that this section of the forum is experiencing a number of Derec showers...

 

[dendrast]

Dude, no other country is moving their embassy to Jerusalem or recognising it as the capital, not just Moslem countries. Canada's Trudeau government publicly stated both things today.

PM Islam Socks, who gave an Islamic terrorist 10 million dollars, is perhaps not the best example here.

The world-wide consensus is that this is a foolish and destabilising move.

Foreign policy should not be based on fear of what the Islamic terrorists will do.

Which part of "no other country" did you not get?

Perhaps foreign policy could be based on not creating terrorists, Islamic or otherwise, or is "the bull in the china shop" the only policy that the US and Mr Trump have? Mr Trump is already afraid of terrorists, hence the travel ban.

 

[Elixir]

PM Islam Socks, who gave an Islamic terrorist 10 million dollars, is perhaps not the best example here.


Foreign policy should not be based on fear of what the Islamic terrorists will do.

Which part of "no other country" did you not get?

Perhaps foreign policy could be based on not creating terrorists, Islamic or otherwise, or is "the bull in the china shop" the only policy that the US and Mr Trump have? Mr Trump is already afraid of terrorists, hence the travel ban.

Trump is not afraid of terrorists - he loves them... as long as he can keep his toothless base terrified of them.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Several thoughts:

- Jerusalem is already the capital of Israel. It has been the capital of the modern state of Israel since 1949. Knesset and most other government organs are in Jerusalem. Jerusalem has historically been the capital of the Kingdom of Judah as well as of the Hasmonean Kingdom. Why is US faulted for recognizing what has been the reality for a long time?
- This is not something Trump came up with. It is based on the law US Congress overwhelmingly passed in 1995. It certainly would have been better if Bill Clinton or GW Bush or Obama had decided to recognize Jerusalem, but unfortunately they were too chicken.
- Last but not least, we should not have our hands tied based on terrorist threaten to do. If we cave, then the terrorists have already won.

P.S.: should this not be in the main Politics forum?

Are we experiencing "forum drift"?

Actually, if you put it that way, the terrorists have already won. Americans are acting like anybody with a scarf who enters or tries to enter their country is going to kill them all.

The Jerusalem Embassy act was just as stupid as Trump's promise and Clinton, Bush and Obama all knew it. They weren't chicken, they were diplomatic. It does not advance the cause of peace in the Middle East. People have to at least try to get along.

In the world of diplomacy, you are handed a certain amount of currency. You spend and accept diplomatic currency as you govern. Generally, it is important to only spend it when you need to it most and plan on getting something seriously important out of it. Usually things are bartered, instead of currency spent.

The US and Israel gain nothing from this declaration. So much like how W squandered American diplomatic value, Trump is doing the same and we are seeing a very poor return on the diplomatic currency spent.

 

[blastula]

You got to admit it was a well delivered speech though.

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjsLrK7CaWI[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It is hard to get down on a guy who is losing his dentures at a bad time. Of course, when the guy is making fun of a disabled reporter for cheap laughs in front of thousands of people...and generally is one of the biggest Internet bullies around... it makes it a bit easier to be shallow for a moment.

 

[blastula]

What dentures? It was just dry mouth, that's what the Huckster said.

 

[Philos]

Folks,

Trump wants war so bad; and a war on Muslims would be just right for his itch. I'm wondering how the Islamic nations will present arms? They don't have nukes, so how will they deliver?

A.

 

[Derec]

Which part of "no other country" did you not get?

Argumentum ad populum?
What reason is there not to recognize Jerusalem as capital when it has been the capital of the modern state of Israel since its inception almost 70 years ago? Other than "none of the other kids are doing it", of course.

Perhaps foreign policy could be based on not creating terrorists, Islamic or otherwise,

Islam creates Islamic terrorists. What we should not do is try to appease them. Europe tried to do that and look at the results.

or is "the bull in the china shop" the only policy that the US and Mr Trump have?

It is not so much a bull in a china shop, but the Islamists are like a toddler in a china shop - throw a temper tantrum and break all the China whenever they do not get their way. But the solution is not to always give in just to stop/avoid the tantrum. And that's what all the other countries are trying to do (unless they are part of the toddler themselves, see Turkey for example).

Mr Trump is already afraid of terrorists, hence the travel ban.

I think the travel ban should have been handled differently (individual vetting rather than a few countries) but it certainly is a better strategy than the one persued by acting chancellor Merkel (let millions of Muslim mass migrants and try to appease Islamists by going against US and Israel).

 

[Elixir]

Folks,

Trump wants war so bad; and a war on Muslims would be just right for his itch. I'm wondering how the Islamic nations will present arms? They don't have nukes, so how will they deliver?

A.

Maybe crash their own planes into Mar-a-Lago, the Trump National Golf Courses etc.. With a little luck they might take him out.

 

[Derec]

In the world of diplomacy, you are handed a certain amount of currency.

I am with Montgomery Scott on that one.

The US and Israel gain nothing from this declaration.

I disagree, Either it is a tempest in a teapot and Israel gains recognition for its capital of almost 70 years with little problems, or Hamas et al make good on the threat of the 3rd Intidada, which allows IDF to go after Hamas et al with no holds barred. Win win.

 

[Derec]

Are we experiencing "forum drift"?

Possibly. This forum is supposed to be only for presidential elections, not everything Trump does in office.

Actually, if you put it that way, the terrorists have already won.

They certainly have intimidated countries like France and Germany.

Americans are acting like anybody with a scarf who enters or tries to enter their country is going to kill them all.

Not really.

The Jerusalem Embassy act was just as stupid as Trump's promise and Clinton, Bush and Obama all knew it. They weren't chicken, they were diplomatic. It does not advance the cause of peace in the Middle East. People have to at least try to get along.

It's not like the policy of the last 20 years really bore fruits. Quite the contrary - Hamas is running Gaza and with the Reconciliation might co-govern in Judea/Samaria too.

 

[dendrast]

You got to admit it was a well delivered speech though.

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjsLrK7CaWI[/YOUTUBE]

Does Pence have his hand up Trump's backside? He keeps bobbing his head, and I can hardly see his lips move.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Folks,

Trump wants war so bad; and a war on Muslims would be just right for his itch. I'm wondering how the Islamic nations will present arms? They don't have nukes, so how will they deliver?

A.

I thought Obama was the warmonger

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/09/america-dropped-26171-bombs-2016-obama-legacy

According to new figures, the US dropped nearly three bombs every hour, 24 hours a day. Dare we think how Donald Trump will continue this legacy?



Most Americans would probably be astounded to realize that the president who has been painted by Washington pundits as a reluctant warrior has actually been a hawk. The Iran nuclear deal, a herculean achievement, and the opening of diplomatic relations with Cuba unfortunately stand alone as President Obama’s successful uses of diplomacy over hostility.

While candidate Obama came to office pledging to end George W Bush’s wars, he leaves office having been at war longer than any president in US history. He is also the only president to serve two complete terms with the nation at war.

 

[Juma]

Possibly. This forum is supposed to be only for presidential elections, not everything Trump does in office.


They certainly have intimidated countries like France and Germany.

Americans are acting like anybody with a scarf who enters or tries to enter their country is going to kill them all.

Not really.

The Jerusalem Embassy act was just as stupid as Trump's promise and Clinton, Bush and Obama all knew it. They weren't chicken, they were diplomatic. It does not advance the cause of peace in the Middle East. People have to at least try to get along.

It's not like the policy of the last 20 years really bore fruits. Quite the contrary - Hamas is running Gaza and with the Reconciliation might co-govern in Judea/Samaria too.

Which would result in full war and many many civilans killed. No win for anyone.