'Home-brewed morphine' made possible

[untermensche]

Here's just 2 years of deaths in Virginia. This was 2004 to 2006.

In Virginia alone there were 129 deaths from Morphine in this time period, and the problem is worse now. Morphine is an extremely dangerous drug. To deny this is to not know much about drugs.

http://www.vdh.state.va.us/medExam/documents/2009/pdfs/IllegalDrugs.pdf

And death by heroin is really death by morphine since the effect of heroin is because it is metabolized to morphine in the brain.

As others have said most of these deaths would be caused by the fact that they are illegal. I have seen nothing in this thread or elsewhere that suggests that deaths would be common if drugs such as heroin were legal, like cigarettes are now. In fact there are benefits to making them legal, like DECREASED usage.

Morphine is not illegal. And most people are killing themselves with prescription Morphine.

The more accessible morphine is, the more deaths there will be.

It is not a harmless drug like marijuana.

And of course legal cigarettes kill more people every year than morphine or heroin.

 

[bilby]

As others have said most of these deaths would be caused by the fact that they are illegal. I have seen nothing in this thread or elsewhere that suggests that deaths would be common if drugs such as heroin were legal, like cigarettes are now. In fact there are benefits to making them legal, like DECREASED usage.

Morphine is not illegal. And most people are killing themselves with prescription Morphine.

The more accessible morphine is, the more deaths there will be.

It is not a harmless drug like marijuana.

And of course legal cigarettes kill more people every year than morphine or heroin.

Parachuting is not illegal. And most people are killing themselves with legal jumps.

The more accessible parachutes are, the more deaths there will be.

It is not a harmless sport like football.

All of which fails to add up to justification for a ban on parachutes or parachuting. People do drugs because they enjoy doing drugs. Should people be banned from doing things they enjoy, just because those things are dangerous?

 

[untermensche]

Morphine is not illegal. And most people are killing themselves with prescription Morphine.

The more accessible morphine is, the more deaths there will be.

It is not a harmless drug like marijuana.

And of course legal cigarettes kill more people every year than morphine or heroin.

Parachuting is not illegal. And most people are killing themselves with legal jumps.

The more accessible parachutes are, the more deaths there will be.

It is not a harmless sport like football.

All of which fails to add up to justification for a ban on parachutes or parachuting. People do drugs because they enjoy doing drugs. Should people be banned from doing things they enjoy, just because those things are dangerous?

Where did you pull this talk of banning things?

I haven't said one word about banning anything.

I've just spoken the facts.

The more accessible morphine is the more people will die from it. It is an extremely dangerous drug.

 

[bilby]

Parachuting is not illegal. And most people are killing themselves with legal jumps.

The more accessible parachutes are, the more deaths there will be.

It is not a harmless sport like football.

All of which fails to add up to justification for a ban on parachutes or parachuting. People do drugs because they enjoy doing drugs. Should people be banned from doing things they enjoy, just because those things are dangerous?

Where did you pull this talk of banning things?

I haven't said one word about banning anything.

I've just spoken the facts.

The more accessible morphine is the more people will die from it. It is an extremely dangerous drug.

The more accessible anything is, the more people will die from it.

Why are you labouring this point? Why should we care? Why do you think other people don't already know?

 

[untermensche]

Where did you pull this talk of banning things?

I haven't said one word about banning anything.

I've just spoken the facts.

The more accessible morphine is the more people will die from it. It is an extremely dangerous drug.

The more accessible anything is, the more people will die from it.

Tell me about all those deaths from marijuana.

 

[bilby]

The more accessible anything is, the more people will die from it.

Tell me about all those deaths from marijuana.

They are fairly rare, and mostly the result of stoned people doing dumb things.

What relevance does that have to whatever point you are seeking to make?

 

[untermensche]

Tell me about all those deaths from marijuana.

They are fairly rare, and mostly the result of stoned people doing dumb things.

What relevance does that have to whatever point you are seeking to make?

It was a refutation of your nonsense.

But you don't seem to comprehend it.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Where did you pull this talk of banning things?

I haven't said one word about banning anything.

I've just spoken the facts.

The more accessible morphine is the more people will die from it. It is an extremely dangerous drug.

The more accessible anything is, the more people will die from it.

Why are you labouring this point? Why should we care? Why do you think other people don't already know?

Deaths from Narcan?

(Although I'll admit it supposedly can make you wish you were dead.)

 

[bilby]

They are fairly rare, and mostly the result of stoned people doing dumb things.

What relevance does that have to whatever point you are seeking to make?

It was a refutation of your nonsense.

But you don't seem to comprehend it.

Mate, I don't even know what post of mine you are referring to as 'nonsense'. I am not aware of having made any controversial assertion at all, so I am definitely struggling to see how what you are saying refutes whatever it is - particularly as you seem to be struggling to say anything at all other then the bleeding obvious facts that people who have dangerous hobbies sometimes die as a result; and that taking morphine is a dangerous hobby.

Could you perhaps quote what I said that you think is nonsense?

 

[untermensche]

The more accessible anything is, the more people will die from it.

Why are you labouring this point? Why should we care? Why do you think other people don't already know?

Deaths from Narcan?

(Although I'll admit it supposedly can make you wish you were dead.)

More people live as Narcan is more available.

- - - Updated - - -

Could you perhaps quote what I said that you think is nonsense?

This.

The more accessible anything is, the more people will die from it.

 

[bilby]

Deaths from Narcan?

(Although I'll admit it supposedly can make you wish you were dead.)

More people live as Narcan is more available.

- - - Updated - - -

Could you perhaps quote what I said that you think is nonsense?

This.

The more accessible anything is, the more people will die from it.

That's not nonsense; it's absolutely certain.

Sure, it is true that more people live as Narcan is more available; but it is also true that the more accessible it is, the more people die from Narcan injections.

There is no contradiction here; Narcan stops lots of people from dying from non-Narcan causes; and at the same time causes a number of deaths in its own right. There is a net reduction in deaths from all causes, but a definite and measurable increase in deaths due to Narcan as its availability increases.

http://www.drugs.com/pro/narcan.html

The following adverse events have been associated with the use of Narcan in postoperative patients: hypotension, hypertension, ventricular tachycardia and fibrillation, dyspnea, pulmonary edema, and cardiac arrest. Death, coma, and encephalopathy have been reported as sequelae of these events.

Nothing is completely safe; it follows that the more accessible anything is, the more people will die from it.

Your saying "Tell me about all those deaths from marijuana" does not even address the truth of this statement, much less refute it. A request for information is not a refutation, even if made rhetorically. At best it is an empty dismissal.

 

[untermensche]

There is no contradiction here

Only according to you.

Are there more deaths as clean drinking water is more accessible?

How about more AIDS drugs in Africa?

How about more insulin?

How about more snake venom antidote?

The more accessible anything is, the more people will die from it.

Pure nonsense.

 

[bilby]

Only according to you.

Are there more deaths as clean drinking water is more accessible?

There are more deaths from incidents involving clean drinking water, and fewer deaths overall.

How about more AIDS drugs in Africa?

There are more deaths from the side effects of AIDS drugs, and fewer deaths overall.

How about more insulin?

There are more deaths from complications arising from the use of insulin, and fewer deaths overall.

How about more snake venom antidote?

There are more deaths from reactions to anti-venom, and fewer deaths overall.

The more accessible anything is, the more people will die from it.

Pure nonsense.

No, very obviously true, but equally obviously, beyond your comprehension. I bolded the relevant part. If you ignore that bit, then you get "The more accessible anything is, the more people will die", which would be nonsense, but would NOT be what I said.

Try reading for comprehension, rather than for disdain.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Deaths from Narcan?

(Although I'll admit it supposedly can make you wish you were dead.)

More people live as Narcan is more available.

I was questioning more deaths from something as it's more available. I've never heard of Narcan killing anyone.

 

[bilby]

More people live as Narcan is more available.

I was questioning more deaths from something as it's more available. I've never heard of Narcan killing anyone.

Look up three posts.

 

[untermensche]

fewer deaths overall.

fewer deaths overall.

fewer deaths overall.

If I wipe away the nonsense and hand waving you clearly contradict yourself.

But this is a thread about morphine, not your inconsistencies.

And I have no agenda or ulterior motives when I describe the facts about the drug.

It is highly addictive. It has rapid tolerance. It kills thousands, by accident, every year.

This is said in comparison to another drug. Marijuana.

It is mildly addictive. It has some tolerance but not a lot. It kills nobody.

If you want to take a message from it it should be to use marijuana freely but be very disciplined if you use morphine.

 

[bilby]

fewer deaths overall.

fewer deaths overall.

If I wipe away the nonsense and hand waving you clearly contradict yourself.

Not at all. If I had, doubtless you could have pointed out where I did. But it is true of any argument that if you wipe away the argument, you get something totally different.

There is no contradiction is something causing more deaths directly, and fewer deaths overall, and I find it quite disturbing that you imagine that there is.

But this is a thread about morphine, not your inconsistencies.

And I have no agenda or ulterior motives when I describe the facts about the drug.

It is highly addictive. It has rapid tolerance. It kills thousands, by accident, every year.

This is said in comparison to another drug. Marijuana.

It is mildly addictive. It has some tolerance but not a lot. It kills nobody.

If you want to take a message from it it should be to use marijuana freely but be very disciplined if you use morphine.

Then why didn't you just say so?

Morphine is not particularly dangerous, and marijuana even less so.

 

[untermensche]

Then why didn't you just say so?

Morphine is not particularly dangerous, and marijuana even less so.

A drug that kills thousands every year is particularly dangerous.

 

[beero1000]

Then why didn't you just say so?

Morphine is not particularly dangerous, and marijuana even less so.

A drug that kills thousands every year is particularly dangerous.

Ban dihydrogen monoxide!

 

[untermensche]

A drug that kills thousands every year is particularly dangerous.

Ban dihydrogen monoxide!

Where does this talk of banning things come from?

In fact talking frankly about the dangers of things is what people who want them available talk about.

If they have any honesty.