Honest talk about the cost of being ugly

[DrZoidberg]

I'm about to leave to join my aerobics group, so I'll make it short, but do you have any idea how sexist your post sounds to me as a woman? You refer to an accomplished woman as a "girl", while referring to the males as men. I don't mind when other women refer to me as a girl, as in one of the girls or join the girls, but if a man uses the term girl to describe a woman, then he should refer to the men as boys.

Nice try. Woke word policing to prove sexism, racism and evil is done to death. It's stupid and doesn't prove a damn. You know why those words were chosen. Get off your high horse. You just look dumb trying to sit up there.

Secondly, you assume she was chosen due to her looks. Perhaps she was chosen because women don't get much respect or attention in male dominated professions as they are rarities. So, just maybe she was chosen to show that a woman in a male dominated profession can be very competent. My son is a highly respected developer and there is not a single woman in his entire department, so you have made assumptions because you find this woman physically attractive and are not even considering her other accomplishments. Gotta run, so I'll leave it at that.

I know the whole story abot this. All of what you say is also true. IT companies are often criticised for being boys clubs that shun women. The reality is that, all IT companies, I've had anything to do with (and that's a lot) is a conspiracy to get women into IT. IT companies are incredibly nice to women. They do everything they can to promote them and lift them up. Everyone (I have had anything to do with) is cool about it. Women who want managerial positions are encouraged to the max.

The reason there's so little women in tech is because women aren't all that intersted. India has about a 50/50 split men and women in IT. Why? Because the IT industry is one of the best way to make money, and in India people have to care more about how to make money than what they'd prefer to do. Having the ability to chose your job is a luxury. When women have that luxury, (as we all do in the west) women will most often not chose IT or engineering jobs. The effect is the most extreme in the extremely gender equal Scandinavia. Where we work harder than anywhere else to get women into tech.

The company has plenty of more accomplished female developers who are not hot. Most women in tech are pretty over weight. Those weren't picked.

She's awesome. She's doing a great job being on stage and talking. She's outgoing, friendly, funny and hot. Just the kind of person they want on stage. I totally understand why they picked her. She has all the important skills and reasons to be picked... and she's hot. So she got the job. That was the point of the video in the OP. His point is that life isn't fair and we shouldn't pretend it is.

Not being good looking, is a constant punishment from society. Something we just seem to take for granted. We think those who aren't that hot should just deal with it. We have different sets of rules for hot people and ugly people. Hot people can do stuff that ugly people can't. Telling ugly people they can do the same things as hot people is cruel to them. Because they can't. The only point of the video is to have an honest conversation about it. Something that seems to have triggered you, and lots of other people on this forum. What he's saying is obviously true. So why is it triggering to you, do you think?

 

[DrZoidberg]

Which makes perfectly good sense if it's actually a filter for what we find desirable rather than an attraction to the opposite sex. And how do you even implement "opposite" in attraction? There must somehow exist a pattern for attraction to men and a pattern for attraction to women.

Yeah... it's so cool, once we start to think a bit about what exactly we're sexually attracted to in a partner. Humans are cool.

And one final note. Men and women aren't opposite. Men and women look, function and behave almost exactly the same. We just zero in on the stuff that is different and put all focus on that. But those are mostly details. Yeah.... it's cool.

 

[Bronzeage]

As a former hot guy(references on request), I can say that being conventionally attractive is not as great an advantage when seeking a companion, as some would have us believe.

However, I have observed that believing one's self to be ugly is an insurmountable handicap. As we used to say back on the weasel ranch, you miss every target you never shoot at.

 

[steve_bank]

DrZ
And one final note. Men and women aren't opposite. Men and women look, function and behave almost exactly the same. We just zero in on the stuff that is different and put all focus on that. But those are mostly details. Yeah.... it's cool.

Really? Function almost the same? How exactly is that?

You sound like the woke crowd that wants to erase any gender references.

Are you trying to introduce your views on sexuality?

 

[steve_bank]

bronzeage
However, I have observed that believing one's self to be ugly is an insurmountable handicap. As we used to say back on the weasel ranch, you miss every target you never shoot at.

Believing in yourself says it all. When you have it people will see it and respond to it.

To some attraction may be all based on how you measure up to adverting beauty. I feel sorry for anyone who thinks that is all there is to attraction.

I think for many perceived belief in self is part of attraction and selecting a mate. Some may, but who wwantss an airhead bodybuilder?

Belief in self goes to stability.

IMO kids today not getting a sense of self worth we used to growing up, a lot of it from family.

Kids are exposed to massive influences on the net with no capacity to understand it. Same with porn exposure

To me today porn is kind of sad. TV and movies today are what was called soft porn.

 

[DrZoidberg]

DrZ
And one final note. Men and women aren't opposite. Men and women look, function and behave almost exactly the same. We just zero in on the stuff that is different and put all focus on that. But those are mostly details. Yeah.... it's cool.

Really? Function almost the same? How exactly is that?

You sound like the woke crowd that wants to erase any gender references.

Are you trying to introduce your views on sexuality?

If you take a human body and remove the genetalia and breasts. All the nerves all go in the exact same pattern on any human. the lungs have all the same folds and shapes. The brain in all its intricate shapes... the same. Identical. Any cell, all the same organells, working in the same way. The blood is near indistringuishable. The exact same number of bones, same functions and in the same place. Hair folicles are the same. Men's are just more active. But they have all the same bits. But even the genitalia. Penises and vaginas have all the same bits. Just rearranged to different places. Men have milk producing glands. They just don't get triggered (by hormones). The ways all human bodies are similar is astounding.

That was my point. That's not being woke. That's taking ones time to notice the the obvious... and beautiful.

 

[DrZoidberg]

On the women in IT. I go to a lot to IT conferences. Most are business to business. So nerds talking to nerds. Plenty of overweight and not good looking women on the stage talking. Because, in that context, they're not judged on looks... at all. The IT industry is really good for ugly people. You just need to be good at your job to get respect.

IT women speaking at conferences is proportionally way higher than women in IT. I don't know why. It is interesting. And these women almost never talk about women's issues. They tend to talk about techy nerdy stuff, which is what we all care the most about at these conferences.

But the computer game company mentioned above, they sell to the open market. It's for a general audience. So for them the looks of their developers is a factor.

 

[Jarhyn]

All the nerves all go in the exact same pattern on any human

This is stunningly wrong and ignorant.

 

[Spacetime Inhabitant]

When women have that luxury, (as we all do in the west

At times you claim to be a leftist, but no leftist or indeed anyone aware of inequality of opportunity in societies would say this.

 

[steve_bank]

On the women in IT. I go to a lot to IT conferences. Most are business to business. So nerds talking to nerds. Plenty of overweight and not good looking women on the stage talking. Because, in that context, they're not judged on looks... at all. The IT industry is really good for ugly people. You just need to be good at your job to get respect.

IT women speaking at conferences is proportionally way higher than women in IT. I don't know why. It is interesting. And these women almost never talk about women's issues. They tend to talk about techy nerdy stuff, which is what we all care the most about at these conferences.

But the computer game company mentioned above, they sell to the open market. It's for a general audience. So for them the looks of their developers is a factor.

Shallow and opinionated.

 

[DrZoidberg]

When women have that luxury, (as we all do in the west

At times you claim to be a leftist, but no leftist or indeed anyone aware of inequality of opportunity in societies would say this.

There's so much black and white fallacy all over this

Nobody in the west is forced into a career they don't want just to survive. They might be forced into taking jobs they don't want. But not a career. Even the poorest in the west has options. In the west we can flounce around without a job for years. Good luck doing that in India.

That doesn't mean everyone in the west has equal opportunities. I never said that. What I did say is that people in the west have more opportunities than people in India. I'd say that's an opinion anyone on any side of the political spectrum can get behind.

Anyway... you were a dishonest debater misrepresenting what I said. Don't do it again.

 

[steve_bank]

DrZ
And one final note. Men and women aren't opposite. Men and women look, function and behave almost exactly the same. We just zero in on the stuff that is different and put all focus on that. But those are mostly details. Yeah.... it's cool.

Really? Function almost the same? How exactly is that?

You sound like the woke crowd that wants to erase any gender references.

Are you trying to introduce your views on sexuality?

If you take a human body and remove the genetalia and breasts. All the nerves all go in the exact same pattern on any human. the lungs have all the same folds and shapes. The brain in all its intricate shapes... the same. Identical. Any cell, all the same organells, working in the same way. The blood is near indistringuishable. The exact same number of bones, same functions and in the same place. Hair folicles are the same. Men's are just more active. But they have all the same bits. But even the genitalia. Penises and vaginas have all the same bits. Just rearranged to different places. Men have milk producing glands. They just don't get triggered (by hormones). The ways all human bodies are similar is astounding.

That was my point. That's not being woke. That's taking ones time to notice the the obvious... and beautiful.

Huh?

Are you familiars with estrogen and testosterone?

Male to female trans take female hormones, male to female trans take female hormones.

There was the infamous Soviet Olympics doping scandal in the 80s I think. Female athletes on testosterone to build muscle and strength. Some had facial hair.

AI Overview
The East German (GDR) female Olympic doping scandal was a state-sponsored, systematic program in the 1970s and 1980s that secretly administered anabolic steroids to thousands of young athletes. Labeled as "vitamins," these performance-enhancing drugs yielded unprecedented medal dominance but left many athletes with severe, lifelong physical and psychological trauma.

Targeting Young Females: Coaches and sports physicians specifically targeted young female athletes, subjecting them to heavy doses of male hormones (like Oral-Turinabol) and testosterone injections.

Pro sports are split by gender.

Do you have issues with women? You seem to reduce i9t all to stereotypes.

IT people are nerds?

 

[WAB]

When women have that luxury, (as we all do in the west

At times you claim to be a leftist, but no leftist or indeed anyone aware of inequality of opportunity in societies would say this.

There's so much black and white fallacy all over this

Nobody in the west is forced into a career they don't want just to survive. They might be forced into taking jobs they don't want. But not a career. Even the poorest in the west has options. In the west we can flounce around without a job for years. Good luck doing that in India.

That doesn't mean everyone in the west has equal opportunities. I never said that. What I did say is that people in the west have more opportunities than people in India. I'd say that's an opinion anyone on any side of the political spectrum can get behind.

Anyway... you were a dishonest debater misrepresenting what I said. Don't do it again.

I would venture to say that that is the debating tactic of 80% of the posters here. And it's not accidental, but deliberate and calculated.

 

[pood]

On the women in IT. I go to a lot to IT conferences. Most are business to business. So nerds talking to nerds. Plenty of overweight and not good looking women on the stage talking. Because, in that context, they're not judged on looks... at all. The IT industry is really good for ugly people. You just need to be good at your job to get respect.

IT women speaking at conferences is proportionally way higher than women in IT. I don't know why. It is interesting. And these women almost never talk about women's issues. They tend to talk about techy nerdy stuff, which is what we all care the most about at these conferences.

But the computer game company mentioned above, they sell to the open market. It's for a general audience. So for them the looks of their developers is a factor.

Shallow and opinionated.

Indeed. Why even talk in these stupid, shallow terms?

Why characterize people as “nerds,” “overweight and not good looking women,” and “ugly people” in the first place, unless you yourself are a very insecure, stupid and shallow individual who must demean others to feel good about himself?

 

[pood]

So first we have this from Dr.Z:

Fun anecdote. I have a friend who is a software developer and works at a top gaming studio. She doesn't do anything important. She's just a grunt on the floor working on an A-list game. She's just one among many many thousands of developers, across the globe. But she is spectacularly beautiful.

Now when they're doing a promotional tour speaking at conferences, conventions and such, guess which developer they have "randomly" selected to represent the developers of the project on stage?

/Because looks don't matter

If only the other developers just had been a bit more charming and put their best foot forward... it could have been them. I guess it just was bad luck. Statistically it should have been a man... since almost all developers on the project are men... rotten luck.

BTW... nobody on the project is bitter about it. Why? Because everybody knows this is how it works, and if you want attention for your product you push the hot babes into the spotlight. So they all want the hot chick up there, speaking on their behalf. It's very common that gaming companies use the only girl for promos.

And just to have it said. She's not a bad developer. She's not even good for a girl. She's fine. She's an absolutely decent developer pulling her weight. Which is cool. And she does graphics. Which is hard core programming. She absolutely deserves to be on the stage. But so would a lot of other people, who aren't on stage talking now.

Love his condescending description of her as a “girl.” But that’s an aside.

But wait! NEXT, we have THIS:

On the women in IT. I go to a lot to IT conferences. Most are business to business. So nerds talking to nerds. Plenty of overweight and not good looking women on the stage talking. Because, in that context, they're not judged on looks... at all. The IT industry is really good for ugly people. You just need to be good at your job to get respect.

Dr.Z apparently can’t see how he has contradicted himself:

First: At these conferences, you put the “hot babes” in the spotlight, because everyone knows that is how it is done.

Second: Plenty of overweight and not good looking women on the stage talking. Because, in that context, they're not judged on looks... at all. The IT industry is really good for ugly people.

Now maybe he means that B2B is different somehow from “promotional tours,” the latter of which require, in his estimation, “hot babes,” whereas B2B does not. Whatever. I can no longer be arsed to sort through his superficial petty mind and his repulsive posts. I will simply say that I have attended a fair number of IT conferences and promotional tours myself, and never once did I find myself thinking, “Wow, there’s a hot babe!” “Wow, there’s an overweight and not good-looking woman!” “Wow, there’s an ugly woman on stage talking!” Etc.

People who think in these terms are, for me, repulsive, vulgar and ignorant.

As are people who think that those who oppose Netanyahu’s attempted genocide in Gaza are anti-Semitic.

And at IT promotional tours, I have never seen a bunch of what Z would call “hot babes” trying to sell me shit. Instead I saw people of all shapes, sizes, genders, ages, races and appearance, however you wish to evaluate looks. But maybe that is because I live in New York City, which celebrates diversity of every kind.

 

[pood]

I should add also that it is INCREDIBLY condescending to men to suggest that “hot babes” will make them buy stuff. That may apply to SOME men, who are morons, but that is about it.

Dr. Z and his hero on the video have got nothing.