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Hospital refuses transplant to person who refuses vital aspects of procedure.

Jarhyn

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It strikes a good steeping point to discussion: if someone refuses aspects of a procedure, I think it is entirely reasonable to refuse to do the procedure:

If I opt out of general anesthesia, my surgeon will opt out of surgery: they cannot manage liability of operating on a patient who is actually aware of how they are cut open and of their pain signals.

If I opt out of antiseptic usage, my surgeon will opt out of surgery: they cannot manage liability of operating on a patient covered with bacteria.

If I opt out of vaccination usage, my surgeon will opt out of surgery: they cannot manage liability for additional complications in an environment known to contain live COVID.

It seems a no-brainer to me, but maybe hopefully the tragedy of what will happen to this person who refuses the rigorous process of reasonable medical intervention will knock some sense into those others keen on refusing such process?
 

Keith&Co.

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Yeah, they generally don't allow participants to pick and choose from a menu of mecical practices. Like, "I accept all the science that supports the concept of and mechanization of heart transplants, and general anasthesia, but i draw the line at the so-called experts suggesting i stay off salty foods for five years afterwards. Fuck them, I'm having my daily cup of beer nuts while i'm in Recovery."
 

Jarhyn

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"first, do no harm". Accepting long term treatment of potential vectors introduces harm, because they are vectors!

Hospitals go through great pains to "devectorize" patients, often against the pathogens they themselves bring in but also against things that may already be there: it's not like they don't scrub you down with betadine, and then pump you full of antibiotics.

It's just another disinfection and anti-infective procedure. You turn it down? They turn down the liability to do harm.
 
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laughing dog

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The patient's father says his son is "sticking to his guns". I guess they'll pry them from his cold fingers, because I see no reason for the hospital staff to expose themselves or other patients in the hospital to unnecessary risks.
 

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Straightforward. The resources for these sorts of transplants aren't in abundance. If they were I'm almost certain the Hospital would make accommodations. However, because of the scarcity of matching hearts and a long list of candidates, it makes sense that the Hospital seeks to increase its odds of having a successful operation by declining and picking a better candidate. It's not about staff catching Covid (although patients should care) as hospitals also care for Covid patients it's about the best chance of success with a procedure having a long list of patients with few resources.
 

TomC

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This kinda reminds me is an episode of an old courtroom TV drama, LA Law.

A wealthy man had a liver that was failing. He was on "the list" for a liver transplant. While on the list, his son got married. At the reception he toasted the happy couple with a glass of champagne. Word of this got back to the hospital, who took him off of the list. He sued.

His version was "I haven't had a drop of alcohol in years. I only had one glass at my son's wedding!" The hospital's version was "We've got patients who also need a transplant and scrupulously abide by the 'absolutely no alcohol at all' rule. You're now at the end of the line."

This created a lot of drama. Fictional, but sometimes fiction is more real than the news.

Sorry for the needy patient, but he is making a choice and so is the hospital staff.
Tom
 

Jimmy Higgins

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The patient's father says his son is "sticking to his guns". I guess they'll pry them from his cold fingers, because I see no reason for the hospital staff to expose themselves or other patients in the hospital to unnecessary risks.
Literally picking a crappy hill to die on.
 

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This kinda reminds me is an episode of an old courtroom TV drama, LA Law.

A wealthy man had a liver that was failing. He was on "the list" for a liver transplant. While on the list, his son got married. At the reception he toasted the happy couple with a glass of champagne. Word of this got back to the hospital, who took him off of the list. He sued.

His version was "I haven't had a drop of alcohol in years. I only had one glass at my son's wedding!" The hospital's version was "We've got patients who also need a transplant and scrupulously abide by the 'absolutely no alcohol at all' rule. You're now at the end of the line."

This created a lot of drama. Fictional, but sometimes fiction is more real than the news.

Sorry for the needy patient, but he is making a choice and so is the hospital staff.
Tom

The only time I ever watch a TV drama is when it's in Spanish. I can't understand a thing they are saying so I can make up the story as I go, but man are those women HOT.
 

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At the end of the above report...
Ferguson isn't the first patient in need of a transplant who has been denied due to their vaccination status.

In October, Leilani Lutali of Colorado, 56, was taken off the transplant list at a University of Colorado Health hospital because she and her prospective kidney donor Jaimee Fougner, 45, hadn't gotten the COVID-19 vaccine.

The pair were placed on a list for those who are 'non-compliant by not receiving the COVID-19 vaccine.'

Born-again Christian Lutali has refused to get inoculated because of the use of stem cells in developing some vaccines.

'As a Christian, I can't support anything that has to do with abortion of babies, and the sanctity of life for me is precious,' Lutali said.

Fougner, Lutali's friend and potential donor, has also denied the vaccine citing religious reasons.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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At the end of the above report...
Ferguson isn't the first patient in need of a transplant who has been denied due to their vaccination status.

In October, Leilani Lutali of Colorado, 56, was taken off the transplant list at a University of Colorado Health hospital because she and her prospective kidney donor Jaimee Fougner, 45, hadn't gotten the COVID-19 vaccine.

The pair were placed on a list for those who are 'non-compliant by not receiving the COVID-19 vaccine.'

Born-again Christian Lutali has refused to get inoculated because of the use of stem cells in developing some vaccines.

'As a Christian, I can't support anything that has to do with abortion of babies, and the sanctity of life for me is precious,' Lutali said.

Fougner, Lutali's friend and potential donor, has also denied the vaccine citing religious reasons.
The funny part is that they are fine with the territory stolen from Native Populations, the abuse of labor and child labor in the products they buy, but if something had gained research from an aborted fetus decades ago... my gosh, they must take a stand!
 

TomC

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This kinda reminds me is an episode of an old courtroom TV drama, LA Law.

A wealthy man had a liver that was failing. He was on "the list" for a liver transplant. While on the list, his son got married. At the reception he toasted the happy couple with a glass of champagne. Word of this got back to the hospital, who took him off of the list. He sued.

His version was "I haven't had a drop of alcohol in years. I only had one glass at my son's wedding!" The hospital's version was "We've got patients who also need a transplant and scrupulously abide by the 'absolutely no alcohol at all' rule. You're now at the end of the line."

This created a lot of drama. Fictional, but sometimes fiction is more real than the news.

Sorry for the needy patient, but he is making a choice and so is the hospital staff.
Tom

The only time I ever watch a TV drama is when it's in Spanish. I can't understand a thing they are saying so I can make up the story as I go, but man are those women HOT.
While we're derailing,

A side issue, subplot or whatever, was that the rich guy was black. He tried to pull the race card. "They're doing this because they're racist."

IIRC, that didn't work either.
But it was nearly 40 years ago, I don't remember all the details of a story that extended over a few episodes.

I liked LA Law because of the complex stories and lack of tidy, happy, endings.
Tom
 

Keith&Co.

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'As a Christian, I can't support anything that has to do with abortion of babies, and the sanctity of life for me is precious,' Lutali said.
As i understand it, part of the approval process for just about every human drug* includes testing against an established stem cell line. So the anti rejection drugs involved in the transplant, pain killers, sedatives, immunosuppressives, anticoagulents, blood pressure, anti-ulcers....all very likely to violate this strict moral code, anyway. Better get every patient on the waiting list to sign a form allowing or preventing the doc from prescribing any drug approved in the last, what, 40 years?

"You get Korea-surplus sulfanilimade, streptomyacin, and Whiskey. Good luck."

*oh, and about the human-authorised ivermectin doses...sorry.
 

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This kinda reminds me is an episode of an old courtroom TV drama, LA Law.

A wealthy man had a liver that was failing. He was on "the list" for a liver transplant. While on the list, his son got married. At the reception he toasted the happy couple with a glass of champagne. Word of this got back to the hospital, who took him off of the list. He sued.

His version was "I haven't had a drop of alcohol in years. I only had one glass at my son's wedding!" The hospital's version was "We've got patients who also need a transplant and scrupulously abide by the 'absolutely no alcohol at all' rule. You're now at the end of the line."

This created a lot of drama. Fictional, but sometimes fiction is more real than the news.

Sorry for the needy patient, but he is making a choice and so is the hospital staff.
Tom
Scrubs did one as well:


Dr. Cox: I see, so what, that's... that's it? You say she gets the liver and that's the way it goes?
Turk: No, she gets the liver because she followed the rules.
Dr. Cox: Ah-ha.
Turk: Dr. Cox, I know it's really hard on you medical guys, because you spend most of your time with your patients and you get emotionally attached. But as a surgeon, the person I'm closest to is the guy who's giving us the liver, because it's a gift, and I think it's important that it goes to the person that's proven they're up to the responsibility.

Basically, if you allow a transplant for someone who doesn't follow the rules, you're not showing any respect to the donor that they definitely deserve.
 

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A few years ago, a friend received a liver transplant, which saved his life. They honestly do not know what caused his original liver to fail: he was never much of a drinker, didn't do drugs, lived a fairly clean life but his liver was starting to fail for several years before he was transplanted. I don't remember how many years he was on the list before he got his liver. It's one of those games: your numbers improve, you move down the list. Your numbers go down, you move up the list but risk dying before you get a match. During this period of time, he made a big career change, giving up a post he really loved to be near a good transplant center, which also meant uprooting his kids who were just finishing high school, etc. And then, he ended up moving back to our home state to help his parents who were facing serious health issues and had to start over again with a new transplant team. He risked his life to help his parents because that's what he thought was the right thing to do. It worked out well for him as he was put on the list with a new team and so began his wait again.

During his surgery, they discovered an issue that, had they known prior to the surgery, would have precluded him from receiving his new liver. Fortunately, his team included someone whose specialty was resolving that sort of vascular issue and the transplant was successful. However, he battled some serious infection issues afterwards, despite being extremely vigilant about his meds and his wound care and ended up re-hospitalized. He almost died 5 months after the transplant.

Being a transplant recipient is no walk in the park. My friend is fine now and is in good health, all things considered. He will remain on meds all his life and has to maintain a clean, healthy lifestyle in order for his new liver to keep functioning. He's doing well, thankfully. Without the surgery when he had it, he would have died within a very short period of time. He was lucky and he knows it and is grateful every single day.

Transplant patients who are not going to be compliant with the post op protocols FOR LIFE are not going to receive transplants because it's a waste of everyone's time and money plus the valuable organ that will be wasted on someone not willing to follow medical protocols and medication regimes post op.

I really do not understand why so many people think the rules do not apply to them. By rules, I mean the rules of science, nature, medicine, whatever you'd like to call it. Unfortunately, no matter what your mommy told you, you're just not that special and rules apply to you.
 
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